12 minutes ago, wakey said:

you clearly don't 😁

we all see things differently, but for me we didn't start to gain any control in the second half until Sheehan came on and started getting on the ball. Did what he does best - always available, finds pockets, draws players in and feeds it out to someone who - because of that - has space to move forwards.

For someone who knows and analyses the game as you clearly do, I find your dislike of him weird.

Granted, his corners were shite mind.

Give it a rest Wakey. 
I do like him but he’s just not right for us (in some games)

Edited August 4, 20251 yr by Wanderlust

55 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Who played full back for the final few minutes was neither here nor there.

It was. We totally lost shape when Tutu came on, before he then stupidly gave away the free kick from which they scored the second and ended the game.

Schumacher needs to take a few things out of yesterday’s game.

1. Play youth before Tutu at right back. If he can’t challenge for the right wing position, he needs to be moved on, ASAP.

2. McAtee is not an option for the 9 role. Lawrence would have been at least as effective. Another who should be placed near the exit door.

3. A left footer at left centre back. When all are fit, we have Johnston, Inwood and Taylor. Forino did not look comfortable on the left.

4. Trust your youth. After much praise, none - Inwood, Warren, Lawrence - were given a place on the bench. The latter two could have done a better job than McAtee for the last quarter.

5. More pruning is required from this squad.

12 hours ago, green genie said:

Palsson will play unless we get a signing in. Two best defenders plus first choice keeper out for weeks.

Hope they're all back for you after Saturday 😀

Wiredu was the one that looked like keystone cops v Barnsley (of course every CB has a mare now and again, no doubt he's quality or he wouldn't have been signed).

1 minute ago, Wanderlust said:

Give it a rest Wakey. 
I do like him but he’s just not right for us.

fibber 😁

don't think we'll ever agree on this one - he'd have to unbelievably good or monstrously shite to change our views. And - like most - he's neither.

Stayed off here last night to avoid the inevitable meltdown, and got bored a couple of pages into catching up.

So to save me the hassle of reading the last few pages, who're we scapegoating this time?

1 hour ago, Zico said:

yeah but I certainly won't be in their end sat amongst them

You could sit in their end and not have any of their fans within 20 yards of you

12 minutes ago, wakey said:

Stayed off here last night to avoid the inevitable meltdown, and got bored a couple of pages into catching up.

So to save me the hassle of reading the last few pages, who're we scapegoating this time?

McAtee offers nothing, Morley is invisible, the subs made us worse and SS record is now relegation form, however we will play a lot worse and win 3-0 so what do i know.

2 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Genuine question this and not having a dig but why didn’t SS just replace Conway with Johnson yesterday rather than disrupting the whole defence, moving Cogs to the left and using tutu at RB who will never make a full back in his life and in fact why remove Conway at all? As far as I’m aware he played and finished every game for Donny last year so why take him off when he was arguably our best player?

Dont you mean Crewe?

26 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Hope they're all back for you after Saturday 😀

Wiredu was the one that looked like keystone cops v Barnsley (of course every CB has a mare now and again, no doubt he's quality or he wouldn't have been signed).

Wiredu was playing defensive midfield, alledgedy . Got hooked at HT

This one of you lot?

One of our best chances of the game came from Tutu overlapping, then beating his man and drilling the ball across goal. The second goal wasn't his fault. Freekicks get given all the time. Our inability to defend our box isn't on him. It wasn;t even a foul in the first place.

We lost the game due to not being able to shoot and our Centre backs not being able to compete with their strikers in the box.

We didn't lose because Sheehan came on, or because Tutu came on. In fact, I'd argue that after an insipid opening of the second half, they improved us

5 minutes ago, green genie said:

Wiredu was playing defensive midfield, alledgedy . Got hooked at HT

Aye. Was on a booking and asking for trouble. Lucky he didn't concede a penalty for the holding that led to that fracas

Edited August 4, 20251 yr by boltonboris

Not taking too much out of yesterday’s game. I think the first half is showing you where we are going. Fast, playing with width and guile. A few decisions had gone our way and I think we’d be all lumping on.

The first goal killed the game and I think we went back to default and had a glimpse of the past. It will take a while to shake it off and Schuey still doesn’t have the personnel he wants. Thought Randall looked handy when he came on and I’d actually like to see him start next week.

Conway did incredibly well as I’m not sure he will get many tougher opponents with CMG helping him out. He glides with the ball nicely too.

Im starting to worry Forino may be a bit of a sicknote. Never looks comfortable during a game. Almost like he’s too big.

The ref was a turd burglar yesterday. Pen shouts aside the handball he missed  in the centre circle was a joke and for the life of me, I could not understand him blaming Sherman-Lowe for being bundled by Wooton

 

 

36 minutes ago, Rival Son said:

It was. We totally lost shape when Tutu came on, before he then stupidly gave away the free kick from which they scored the second and ended the game.

Schumacher needs to take a few things out of yesterday’s game.

1. Play youth before Tutu at right back. If he can’t challenge for the right wing position, he needs to be moved on, ASAP.

2. McAtee is not an option for the 9 role. Lawrence would have been at least as effective. Another who should be placed near the exit door.

3. A left footer at left centre back. When all are fit, we have Johnston, Inwood and Taylor. Forino did not look comfortable on the left.

4. Trust your youth. After much praise, none - Inwood, Warren, Lawrence - were given a place on the bench. The latter two could have done a better job than McAtee for the last quarter.

5. More pruning is required from this squad.

In his defence, I didn't think it was at all a foul, another one of those soft ones the ref gave that just broke the game up into an unwatchable series of stop starts. 

2 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Genuine question this and not having a dig but why didn’t SS just replace Conway with Johnson yesterday rather than disrupting the whole defence, moving Cogs to the left and using tutu at RB who will never make a full back in his life and in fact why remove Conway at all? As far as I’m aware he played and finished every game for Donny last year so why take him off when he was arguably our best player?

The way I saw it (could be wrong) is that Tutu is a winger, yes he played "right back" but we were 1 down and his job was to help create for us.  Of course we can say it didn't work but clearly he's got more pace and ability to beat a man than Cogley (who has other qualities).  I saw it as an attacking substitution and I'd expect SS to do similar if the same scenario comes up on Saturday.  

I'm not saying I wanted Conway to come off BTW, he was a real bright spark although if I'm being picky I wonder if he should release the ball a bit quicker, as good as it is that he is confident to stride forward with it.

 

16 minutes ago, tomski said:

Not taking too much out of yesterday’s game. I think the first half is showing you where we are going. Fast, playing with width and guile. A few decisions had gone our way and I think we’d be all lumping on.

The first goal killed the game and I think we went back to default and had a glimpse of the past. It will take a while to shake it off and Schuey still doesn’t have the personnel he wants. Thought Randall looked handy when he came on and I’d actually like to see him start next week.

Conway did incredibly well as I’m not sure he will get many tougher opponents with CMG helping him out. He glides with the ball nicely too.

Im starting to worry Forino may be a bit of a sicknote. Never looks comfortable during a game. Almost like he’s too big.

The ref was a turd burglar yesterday. Pen shouts aside the handball he missed  in the centre circle was a joke and for the life of me, I could not understand him blaming Sherman-Lowe for being bundled by Wooton

 

 

We were 2 on 1 at one point in the first half before he blew for a soft as fck ‘foul’. Could have easily scored. He was awful. 

Slightly concerning we didn’t come out second half, fair enough we took a knock out blow on the halftime whistle. But it happened a few times last season where we just didn’t kick on. Early days though and a few more ins and outs maybe.

35 minutes ago, boltonboris said:

One of our best chances of the game came from Tutu overlapping, then beating his man and drilling the ball across goal. The second goal wasn't his fault. Freekicks get given all the time. Our inability to defend our box isn't on him. It wasn;t even a foul in the first place.

We lost the game due to not being able to shoot and our Centre backs not being able to compete with their strikers in the box.

We didn't lose because Sheehan came on, or because Tutu came on. In fact, I'd argue that after an insipid opening of the second half, they improved us

Thank God for that.

I was starting to think that Guinness was playing tricks on me.

Exactly how I saw it. We definitely improved in that 2nd half after Sheehan and Tutu came on 

1 hour ago, wakey said:

Stayed off here last night to avoid the inevitable meltdown, and got bored a couple of pages into catching up.

So to save me the hassle of reading the last few pages, who're we scapegoating this time?

Nobody, just chat about the game, players contributions to it good and bad, tactics, formations.  That's one of the reasons for the forum, and folk can disagree, agree or ignore as they see fit.  No scapegoats.

1 hour ago, boltonboris said:

One of our best chances of the game came from Tutu overlapping, then beating his man and drilling the ball across goal. The second goal wasn't his fault. Freekicks get given all the time. Our inability to defend our box isn't on him. It wasn;t even a foul in the first place.

We lost the game due to not being able to shoot and our Centre backs not being able to compete with their strikers in the box.

We didn't lose because Sheehan came on, or because Tutu came on. In fact, I'd argue that after an insipid opening of the second half, they improved us

I'd agree Tutu improved us attacking wise compared to the 1st 20 of the 2nd half, if there's a slight reduction in our shape and defensive organisation when we're desperate for a goal that's worth the risk in my book.  I really don't get where folk see a big drop in defensive capabilities compared to JDC?  Its one fairly quick but less than solid FB replaced by another.   

But it was definitely a foul!  He was grabbing him for ages, as nearly all defenders do when up against a stronger player, in the same circumstance JDC would have either fouled him or given up possession, he's not strong enough to win that ball (that's no criticism).

59 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

The way I saw it (could be wrong) is that Tutu is a winger, yes he played "right back" but we were 1 down and his job was to help create for us.  Of course we can say it didn't work but clearly he's got more pace and ability to beat a man than Cogley (who has other qualities).  I saw it as an attacking substitution and I'd expect SS to do similar if the same scenario comes up on Saturday.  

I'm not saying I wanted Conway to come off BTW, he was a real bright spark although if I'm being picky I wonder if he should release the ball a bit quicker, as good as it is that he is confident to stride forward with it.

 

Fair points JR, we needed a goal and it may well have been an attacking substitution which might have worked. It would also explain that he wanted to keep Cogley on for defending but with Conway doing so well up and down that flank it still seemed an odd decision to me to take him off but those are the decisions SS is paid to make I suppose. I wonder sometimes though if SS has a problem with Max? In his summary yesterday he was slightly critical of Max for his shot that hit the woodwork saying he should have crossed the ball but as he was running he did clearly look across and there was nobody in a position to cross to and since he’d just run half the pitch why not shoot? I might be completely wrong but Schu does seem to pick the lad out for critique somewhat more than the others?

51 minutes ago, onefinfrandsen said:

Slightly concerning we didn’t come out second half, fair enough we took a knock out blow on the halftime whistle. But it happened a few times last season where we just didn’t kick on. Early days though and a few more ins and outs maybe.

All that about conceding in the last minute of the first half being the worst time to concede - I know it feels crap at the time and you stew on it for 15 minutes, but I'd take that every day compared to the 1st minute of the 2nd half. 

SS and the players had 15 minutes to regroup, get a 2nd wind, go again and come out motivated to put it right (I appreciate Challinor had the same benefit). 

As a player that's better than coming out at 0-0, thinking you need to keep it tight then being put on the back foot and having the opposition crowd buzzing after 1 minute.  I've never got why a 45th minute goal conceded is worse than 46, it just seems a lazy opinion not based on much.  Both mean you're losing after 46 minutes but you've had chance to get used to the idea and plan your response if you have H-T.

12 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Fair points JR, we needed a goal and it may well have been an attacking substitution which might have worked. It would also explain that he wanted to keep Cogley on for defending but with Conway doing so well up and down that flank it still seemed an odd decision to me to take him off but those are the decisions SS is paid to make I suppose. I wonder sometimes though if SS has a problem with Max? In his summary yesterday he was slightly critical of Max for his shot that hit the woodwork saying he should have crossed the ball but as he was running he did clearly look across and there was nobody in a position to cross to and since he’d just run half the pitch why not shoot? I might be completely wrong but Schu does seem to pick the lad out for critique somewhat more than the others?

Conway had cramp and called it , that’s why he came off.

1 hour ago, frank_spencer said:

This one of you lot?

I thought @Casinowas in Crete 

55 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

All that about conceding in the last minute of the first half being the worst time to concede - I know it feels crap at the time and you stew on it for 15 minutes, but I'd take that every day compared to the 1st minute of the 2nd half. 

SS and the players had 15 minutes to regroup, get a 2nd wind, go again and come out motivated to put it right (I appreciate Challinor had the same benefit). 

As a player that's better than coming out at 0-0, thinking you need to keep it tight then being put on the back foot and having the opposition crowd buzzing after 1 minute.  I've never got why a 45th minute goal conceded is worse than 46, it just seems a lazy opinion not based on much.  Both mean you're losing after 46 minutes but you've had chance to get used to the idea and plan your response if you have H-T.

Whether it’s 44 or 46 minutes, the point is we don’t seem to have it in us to mentally get back into it. But it’s early days and I trust SS to iron things out