Northampton Town (A)

[Casino]

20 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I've never even suggested he's the answer so it's not really an admission

My whole point was the other two weren't good enough either

FFS

Im still unclear why gilkes left, tbh

[DazBob]

20 minutes ago, wakey said:

I'll give it 3 games of Erhahon and Simons together in midfield before you're all moaning about it.

Erhahon seems to have become some mythical beast who goes round twatting everyone and winning possession back all over the pitch.

So for context, FOTMOB do player stats (you know, the stuff they actually do).

Here's a comparison of Sheehan and Erhahon per 90 minutes over the last 365 days (comparison with players in similar positions in the same league, higher the% the better).

Touches    Sheehan 81%  Erhahon  60%

Chances created  60%  43%

Shot attempts  71%  4%

Goals  54%  0%

Aerial duals won  18%  50%

Defensive contributions  33%  36%

 

Or if tackling is his great advantage, Erhahon has 0.9 successful tackles per game at success rate of 47.1% vs Sheehan 0.7 at 46.5%.

They're both good players with different attributes, but we're not suddenly impenetrable because we've replaced Sheehan with Erhahon.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Stats such as the tackling one mean nothing in isolation. You don't always have to actually make a successful tackle to slow down/stop an attack.

... And nobody, as far as I can see on here, has suggested anything like your second paragraph says.

I'm not an Erahon fanboy, nor am I a Sheehan hater. I just think we saw enough of the midfield two last weekend to suggest we stick with them.

[wakey]

1 minute ago, DazBob said:

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Stats such as the tackling one mean nothing in isolation. You don't always have to actually make a successful tackle to slow down/stop an attack.

... And nobody, as far as I can see on here, has suggested anything like your second paragraph says.

I'm not an Erahon fanboy, nor am I a Sheehan hater. I just think we saw enough of the midfield two last weekend to suggest we stick with them.

Horses for courses for me. Think we've got 4 good uns, happy for the manager to decide who and when to use.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

There is no doubt we have better players, a better squad & producing more entertaining football than last season. There is no doubt that Schuey is a better human being than Evatt. No-one is baying for blood.

But 3 wins in 10 (something like 4 in 20 including last season) is not good. It's distinctly mid table ... which is, not coincidentally, where we are. It is improvable & he has people's general favour, but he has to start turning this around.

Starting by scoring when we're on top & recognising that Simons & Erhahon should anchor the centre.

Aye.

Still something not quite sitting right.

Still an odd selection here and there and strange subs, albeit gradually becoming settled.

It would be reasonable to see a more solid looking team for away matches too, until we can find a way of generating more positive results.

It's OK dominating possession etc, but that was the case under Evatt, and we weren't winning then neither.

What is the state of Dacres-Cogley by the way- does anyone know?

If he's unavailable through injury, you can bet your bottom dollar that Christie is suddenly fit enough to play.

[Dr. Feelgood]

35 minutes ago, wakey said:

Here's a comparison of Sheehan and Erhahon per 90 minutes over the last 365 days (comparison with players in similar positions in the same league, higher the% the better).

Touches    Sheehan 81%  Erhahon  60%

Chances created  60%  43%

Shot attempts  71%  4%

Goals  54%  0%

Aerial duals won  18%  50%

Defensive contributions  33%  36%

I don't understand how those are %'ages. Not saying they're wrong, just asking htf you get 81% touches.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, wakey said:

Horses for courses for me. Think we've got 4 good uns, happy for the manager to decide who and when to use.

They're good but I think when it comes to ability alone, Simons and EE are quite a bit ahead of the other two

[tomski]

9 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

They're good but I think when it comes to ability alone, Simons and EE are quite a bit ahead of the other two

Yeah I see Morley and Sheehan as back up now. Dempsey will have his usual 6 good games as well.

[desperado]

17 minutes ago, wakey said:

Horses for courses for me. Think we've got 4 good uns, happy for the manager to decide who and when to use.

Aye. You can bet your bottom dollar, if we’d have stuck with EE and XS and lost, you’d have folk claiming he should never have done it. Citing sticking with the same team against Leyton Orient after the Wimbledon win didn’t work and look what happened when against Lincoln in the first half, when you are going to have plenty of the ball you should start Sheehan etc.

[wakey]

12 minutes ago, desperado said:

Aye. You can bet your bottom dollar, if we’d have stuck with EE and XS and lost, you’d have folk claiming he should never have done it. Citing sticking with the same team against Leyton Orient after the Wimbledon win didn’t work and look what happened when against Lincoln in the first half, when you are going to have plenty of the ball you should start Sheehan etc.

100%. We're all wise after the event.

[wakey]

31 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

I don't understand how those are %'ages. Not saying they're wrong, just asking htf you get 81% touches.

explains it on the site ... sorry, should have posted the links.

It's percentiles, so e.g. if you're 10%, 90% of your peers have better stats.

[masi 51]

1 hour ago, wakey said:

I'll give it 3 games of Erhahon and Simons together in midfield before you're all moaning about it.

Erhahon seems to have become some mythical beast who goes round twatting everyone and winning possession back all over the pitch.

So for context, FOTMOB do player stats (you know, the stuff they actually do).

Here's a comparison of Sheehan and Erhahon per 90 minutes over the last 365 days (comparison with players in similar positions in the same league, higher the% the better).

Touches    Sheehan 81%  Erhahon  60%

Chances created  60%  43%

Shot attempts  71%  4%

Goals  54%  0%

Aerial duals won  18%  50%

Defensive contributions  33%  36%

 

Or if tackling is his great advantage, Erhahon has 0.9 successful tackles per game at success rate of 47.1% vs Sheehan 0.7 at 46.5%.

They're both good players with different attributes, but we're not suddenly impenetrable because we've replaced Sheehan with Erhahon.

Does it tell you how many of those passes are short sideway and back passes......We are talking the last 365 days

Or how many are played at pace forward?

Not seeing how many times either have lost the ball resulting in a goal conceded.

You cannot compare either player they are about as opposite as you can get

[wakey]

1 minute ago, masi 51 said:

Does it tell you how many of those passes are short sideway and back passes......We are talking the last 365 days

Or how many are played at pace forward?

Not seeing how many times either have lost the ball resulting in a goal conceded.

You cannot compare either player they are about as opposite as you can get

I'd say the chances created, shots, goals cover the creative bits. But not my stats, just curious enough to check.

Incidentally, I'll be delighted if Erhahon's as good as you think.

[Wanderlust]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

I don't understand how those are %'ages. Not saying they're wrong, just asking htf you get 81% touches.

I think he’s saying Sheehan shot and failed to score whilst turning over possession rather than passing it to a teammate eighteen times more than Erhahon. 

[wakey]

4 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

I think he’s saying Sheehan shot and failed to score whilst turning over possession rather than passing it to a teammate eighteen times more than Erhahon. 

you forgot to say "I like Sheehan but..."

you're slipping.

[wakey]

10 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Does it tell you how many of those passes are short sideway and back passes......We are talking the last 365 days

Or how many are played at pace forward?

Not seeing how many times either have lost the ball resulting in a goal conceded.

You cannot compare either player they are about as opposite as you can get

Links for both here - there are some where Erhahon's better if you scroll down to the detail.

https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/914169/ethan-erhahon

https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/489335/josh-sheehan

 

[wakey]

And Simons for comparison (for those who like stats)

https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/players/1096398/xavier-simons

 

[masi 51]

13 minutes ago, wakey said:

I'd say the chances created, shots, goals cover the creative bits. But not my stats, just curious enough to check.

Incidentally, I'll be delighted if Erhahon's as good as you think.

From August until late January everything went through Sheehan but a big percentage of those passes went back to the keeper or the full backs

Erhahon will not be creative in shots or Assists ...Those are crazy comparisons

[wakey]

11 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

From August until late January everything went through Sheehan but a big percentage of those passes went back to the keeper or the full backs

Erhahon will not be creative in shots or Assists ...Those are crazy comparisons

more accurate long balls as well, just to cheer you up 😁

I get it, you prefer Erhahon and that's fine. 

 

[1969]

5 minutes ago, wakey said:

more accurate long balls as well, just to cheer you up 😁

I get it, you prefer Erhahon and that's fine. 

 

What about running in circles or making sure you are close to a opponent so you won't receive the ball (go missing when it gets physical)

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, 1969 said:

What about running in circles or making sure you are close to a opponent so you won't receive the ball (go missing when it gets physical)

The very essence of over use of stats.

Says it all that Erhahon came in against Wigan- someone to cope with the game's status. 

Great win and performance. 

Yet away, against a team that clearly works hard defensively, he's seen an not necessary. 

OK if Sheehan dominates, but if they stop him playing at key times, forcing him to be slow and ineffective, then the concept of bringing him in is blown apart.

 

[masi 51]

22 minutes ago, wakey said:

more accurate long balls as well, just to cheer you up 😁

I get it, you prefer Erhahon and that's fine. 

 

No agree Sheehan can ping a 30 yard pass as witnessed just after half time when he took that free kick 15yards in Northamptons half and passed it back to a defender think it was Johnston in our half.

 

That is a completed pass and will go down in the stats........It was a awful pass when all he had to do was dink it in their box......you cannot excuse that

[Johnnyrotten]

6 hours ago, desperado said:

Apologies if already discussed. But SS did this earlier in the season, move Simons to full back, think it was Barnsley.

McGinlay called it on comms too.

So it’s hardly in the category of being the monumental crazy decision you’re making it out to be

Yes we can look back in retrospect and say he got it wrong, or in your case why didn’t SS follow your advice pre-game regarding Toal.

The world where the international defender stays on the bench is the world where (i) We want to keep attacking players on to win our first away game (ii) We’re not losing and have the initiative (iii) At the time we don’t need that protection (iv) It’s another square peg in a round hole (v) We’ve done this before (albeit against 10 men) to good effect.

Don’t misinterpret this as he got it right (clearly he didn’t) or that I 100% agreed with it at the time.

But it wasn’t a decision from a crazy parallel world. 

Erhahon went to LB at Barnsley (and played well - physicality was great).  Tutu replaced JDC at RB, and Morley replaced Simons (and was pivotal to our comeback).

I'm Simons biggest fan but he's making a habit of not making an impact in away games, chalk and cheese to his dominating persona in home games.

[Johnnyrotten]

7 hours ago, desperado said:

The Charlton situation this time last year was the best example to use to make my point that managers can make a poor start but still challenge for promotion. 

I still blame IE for Charlton going up 😀 When we were comfortably leading them in late Jan they were 12th or 13th, and a win puts us joint 6th with Stockport, 7 points above Charlton.  God they were poor (conceded 4 at Rotherham 3 days earlier).  Then we somehow handed them the points with that ridiculous high line defending and they never looked back.  The state of Charlton then shows how little the table can mean in September, but it would be boring if every defeat or poor performance was just met with a "let's wait till Jan" response by fans, and the same applies to good performances and wins, they all count and invite discussion.

[Johnnyrotten]

6 hours ago, masi 51 said:

He was available forgot he was not on the bench..........Maybe his substitutes should include players who can play in more than one position.

Pointless having Toal on the bench if he can cover only two of the back 4 positions and excluding Taylor who can cover all four.

Taylor is left footed -  having a full back on their "wrong" side brings its own problems as we've seen plenty of times to our cost in the past.

[masi 51]

3 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Taylor is left footed -  having a full back on their "wrong" side brings its own problems as we've seen plenty of times to our cost in the past.

We cannot have a substitute for every position but  that is up to SS TO work out.....Putting Simons there is just plain stupid