Reading (A)

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, woolli said:

If they are really bad, what about the 17 teams below them?

Its reasonable to ask that!

I'd say - some of them are worse than really bad (Wigan, Port Vale, Northampton, Rotherham).

Some look better than their results suggest - Orient, Posh, Wycombe, Plymouth, Barnsley.

And some are just as bad as Reading from what I've seen - eg Huddersfield, Luton.

But we've played Reading twice this season and they've been absolutely awful in both games, we should have won both by 2 or 3 but they got away with it by having 1 or 2 proper shots in both games.  I'm not saying stats are everything, far from it, but in the 2 games we've had 37 shots and they've had 11 (I only saw 2 last night but stats say 6 - ??). 

[masi 51]

50 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

I'm not going to go back over anyone's posts, but it would be disingenuous to say that people weren't very high on Simons, Burstow, Forss and ACD etc. and thought they would be top quality players in this league (ACD obviously was). Forss has the best record of any attacking player we've signed this season by miles and never got going.

I'm hopeful for everyone, but there are no guarantees with any of them. That's the nature of loan players, if they were a sure thing they'd be playing for their parent clubs.

Kenny has five career goals above (barely) non-league level and one sub appearance for Ireland. Collins & Charles have 110+ L1 goals, 34 international caps and a L1 player of the season award. Kenny may or may not turn out to be a better player in time, but a better CV already?

What i was pointed out was that the team two season back was just a bunch of lge one Journeymen. At 21/22 Collins was at Exeter in lge2 and Charles was at Accrington. They both along with most of that team peaked in lge1 with Bolton.

Players like Kenny may go to the world cup this summer and has already played higher than Collins or Charles and played in a final and played in Europe........Would command a higher fee than Charles or Collins.

All SS signings have one things potential.

Burstow is learning his trade but he wont be playing league one or two most of his career neither will Apter and ACD

Rodriquez ripped that Evatt team apart at Wembley.......as i say journey men

[ianofcleveleys]

16 minutes ago, Ani said:

My biggest worry is that it is 18th Feb with 13 games to play and we do not know our best XI, even allowing for new signings that is crazy.

That's SS's thing to grapple with, he decided (without much argument from anyone) that we needed to go again in the window and, although some have gone, we still look like we've too many to keep happy in some areas, not enough in others. We've three fit left wingers, arguably 3 no9s in a system where we need 1, 3 x no 10s (if we think Dempsey and Rodrigues operate in that area as well as McAtee) yet only one actual full back (Christie) if we play a back 4. 

Conway and Tutu are wing backs, look vulnerable in a 4 and make Johnston and Forino more vulnerable to transitions, especially if we've only 2 in the middle. 

SS has a conundrum he may well spend most of this run in sorting, in terms of how and where he fits his forward options in and gets them working together, and which defensive set up he sticks with. The upturn in form starting at Wigan was based on the solidity of that Johnston, Forino, Toal back 3, allowing the WBs to be further up with knowledge of cover behind them. We didn't create lots but, in that game and v Stevenage, barely gave up a chance. I'd like to see us go back to it. 

My only other slight worry about fitting people in is Dalby coming deeper to accommodate Kenny playing beyond him. It needs another couple of games, and there were signs last night it could work well, the only niggle is it potentially meaning Dalby being less likely to be in the 6 yard box when those balls get put in from wide areas. It'd be a shame to negate some of what he's best at when he's just got on a roll.

We'll see, lots to ponder, a more interesting run in perhaps than it might look on paper

[Tombwfc]

50 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

What i was pointed out was that the team two season back was just a bunch of lge one Journeymen. At 21/22 Collins was at Exeter in lge2 and Charles was at Accrington. They both along with most of that team peaked in lge1 with Bolton.

Players like Kenny may go to the world cup this summer and has already played higher than Collins or Charles and played in a final and played in Europe........Would command a higher fee than Charles or Collins.

All SS signings have one things potential.

Burstow is learning his trade but he wont be playing league one or two most of his career neither will Apter and ACD

Rodriquez ripped that Evatt team apart at Wembley.......as i say journey men

 

At 21 Dan Nlundulu had double digit Premier League appearances and played at a higher level than all of them.

He also played in (and won) the final Kenny played in, as did Declan John.

Dion Charles might go to the World Cup. He too scored a League One hat-trick last season.

Rodrigues played in a side that got twatted 5-0 by bunch of journeymen. The journeyman midfielders he was up against are both currently starting for Championship sides.

None of this proves a single thing about how well anyone will do here, or what they'll go on to do in their careers. And certainly not the most important thing, which is whether they'll get us promoted this season.

[Jol_BWFC]

3 hours ago, Zico said:

what do you think 

just one of them things

like Stephen Hunt on Petr Cech

except this guy just burst his lip

 

He was trying to kick the ball, but he was off balance and it wasn’t easy with the defender’s body wrapped around it. 

As you say, no malice; just one of those things.

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

He was trying to kick the ball, but he was off balance and it wasn’t easy with the defender’s body wrapped around it. 

As you say, no malice; just one of those things.

Defender shouldn’t have thrown himself to the floor to try and win a free kick when Kenny got slightly close to him.

I don’t wish anyone ill-harm, especially if it was teeth knocked out, but if he’d have just dealt with it like a defender rather than acting like a South American striker then he wouldn’t have ended up in a mess.

From where I was, there was zero malice - you could maybe argue that Kenny shouldn’t have tried to kick the ball but the whistle hadn’t blown and he clearly didn’t think he’d fouled him so was trying to play on.

[wakey]

19 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said:

He was trying to kick the ball, but he was off balance and it wasn’t easy with the defender’s body wrapped around it. 

As you say, no malice; just one of those things.

handball and pen to us, obviously.

plus a red card for trying to bite Kenny's toes, the dirty bastard.

[bwfc4ife]

I believe the issue is with the '10', fuck it off and drop the 'extra' man back into the middle. The amount of sideways and backwards is boring

[Farnywhite]

Did the reading player need treatment or got subbed ? 

[ianofcleveleys]

57 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

At 21 Dan Nlundulu had double digit Premier League appearances and played at a higher level than all of them.

He also played in (and won) the final Kenny played in, as did Declan John.

Dion Charles might go to the World Cup. He too scored a League One hat-trick last season.

Rodrigues played in a side that got twatted 5-0 by bunch of journeymen. The journeyman midfielders he was up against are both currently starting for Championship sides.

None of this proves a single thing about how well anyone will do here, or what they'll go on to do in their careers. And certainly not the most important thing, which is whether they'll get us promoted this season.

The journeys of players, especially outside the Prem are rarely linear, they can go somewhere where everything suits them (team mates, set up, manager, level) and look great, then be somewhere (or even in the same place) where it isnt all bob on for them and look a donkey. 

Charles is arguably as good as an example of that, having a torrid time and subject to some nasty abuse by some of the Hudds fans last night

Those numbers of Nlundulu's at Soton are still baffling 😂

[Farnywhite]

8 minutes ago, Farnywhite said:

Did the reading player need treatment or got subbed ? 

Just had a look teeth damaged and  stitches to face reading want it looking at can see a ban in coming 

[gonzo]

10 minutes ago, bwfc4ife said:

I believe the issue is with the '10', fuck it off and drop the 'extra' man back into the middle. The amount of sideways and backwards is boring

I swear you are actually blind.

Sideways and backwards last night?  It was just attacking build up play ffs.

We just didn't convert the the chances we created.

Kenny was off Dalby last night and fuck all like a proper no 10.

[bwfc4ife]

20 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I swear you are actually blind.

Sideways and backwards last night?  It was just attacking build up play ffs.

We just didn't convert the the chances we created.

Kenny was off Dalby last night and fuck all like a proper no 10.

I was talking more in general than last night in particular. Whatever the fuck it was last night we created next to nothing second half

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

I'm not going to go back over anyone's posts, but it would be disingenuous to say that people weren't very high on Simons, Burstow, Forss and ACD etc. and thought they would be top quality players in this league (ACD obviously was). Forss has the best record of any attacking player we've signed this season by miles and never got going.

I'm hopeful for everyone, but there are no guarantees with any of them. That's the nature of loan players, if they were a sure thing they'd be playing for their parent clubs.

Kenny has five career goals above (barely) non-league level and one sub appearance for Ireland. Collins & Charles have 110+ L1 goals, 34 international caps and a L1 player of the season award. Kenny may or may not turn out to be a better player in time, but a better CV already?

I did find the "better CV" thing a bit puzzling.

He might turn out to be the next Andy Walker, but his career is in front of him and Charles and Collins are proven, not proven to be perfect or exactly what we need, but you knew you were getting a goal every 3 or so starts from them (same with McAtee), we really don't know what Kenny is going to turn into, and last night didn't give us many clues.

[Eddie]

11 minutes ago, bwfc4ife said:

I was talking more in general than last night in particular. Whatever the fuck it was last night we created next to nothing second half

They sat in a bank of 5 with 3 in front. They went down at any point, took minutes at a time out of the game, took ages over every throw and goal kick - it really wasn’t as easy as just making shed loads of chances.

I’m not saying we were perfect but the issue was our delivery from wide when we did work an opening rather than an issue with the ‘10’ (as Gonzo says, we had 2 strikers, not a 10 yesterday).

We had enough chances to win 3 games yesterday, as has been the case too often we just didn’t take them.

[ianofcleveleys]

Therein lies the risk in the current regime's model, and the bit that's not quite as advertised back in early Summer, we are still a relatively young squad and still lack that bit of course and distance experience that saw us out of L2. 

We have one or two more steady heads now, Bonham a useful addition, Forino a solid citizen, Sheehan something of an elder statesman now, but further up the pitch we're largely relying on younger lads with limited experience of being there at the death of a 46 game L1 season.

[Ani]

2 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said:

That's SS's thing to grapple with, he decided (without much argument from anyone) that we needed to go again in the window and, although some have gone, we still look like we've too many to keep happy in some areas, not enough in others. We've three fit left wingers, arguably 3 no9s in a system where we need 1, 3 x no 10s (if we think Dempsey and Rodrigues operate in that area as well as McAtee) yet only one actual full back (Christie) if we play a back 4. 

Conway and Tutu are wing backs, look vulnerable in a 4 and make Johnston and Forino more vulnerable to transitions, especially if we've only 2 in the middle. 

SS has a conundrum he may well spend most of this run in sorting, in terms of how and where he fits his forward options in and gets them working together, and which defensive set up he sticks with. The upturn in form starting at Wigan was based on the solidity of that Johnston, Forino, Toal back 3, allowing the WBs to be further up with knowledge of cover behind them. We didn't create lots but, in that game and v Stevenage, barely gave up a chance. I'd like to see us go back to it. 

My only other slight worry about fitting people in is Dalby coming deeper to accommodate Kenny playing beyond him. It needs another couple of games, and there were signs last night it could work well, the only niggle is it potentially meaning Dalby being less likely to be in the 6 yard box when those balls get put in from wide areas. It'd be a shame to negate some of what he's best at when he's just got on a roll.

We'll see, lots to ponder, a more interesting run in perhaps than it might look on paper

Agree with lots of that, the thing none of us know is the fitness levels especially of the loan players who won’t have played much football. CBT does not seem to have 60 minutes in his legs let alone 90. 
The full back is issue is something we can all see and teams will target balls into Tutu especially if they have taller players, such an easy out. Similar on other side but Conway looks more natural. But if the winger in front of him is Cisoko can not be bombing on. Apter had his faults last night but he did see to help at the back quite well. 

RR when fit looks like he could be a much more creative option in midfield, but can he play in a two and do the defensive side ? 
 

Then chuck in the various options up front then SS has some decisions to make. I thought 3 centre halves worked but it is one position we do not have many options, Christie would be the cover ? 

[Tombwfc]

27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

We had enough chances to win 3 games yesterday

 

Did we? Kenny should've scored. Apter's was a good chance, Dalby is capable of scoring those headers but it would've taken a good effort. So maybe 3 games where we kept clean sheets and took every chance.

I'm loathe to bring up XG but ours yesterday was 1.9, which feels about right to me. We didn't create enough after they scored.

[masi 51]

2 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

 

At 21 Dan Nlundulu had double digit Premier League appearances and played at a higher level than all of them.

He also played in (and won) the final Kenny played in, as did Declan John.

Dion Charles might go to the World Cup. He too scored a League One hat-trick last season.

Rodrigues played in a side that got twatted 5-0 by bunch of journeymen. The journeyman midfielders he was up against are both currently starting for Championship sides.

None of this proves a single thing about how well anyone will do here, or what they'll go on to do in their careers. And certainly not the most important thing, which is whether they'll get us promoted this season.

Dan Nlundelu had zero starts for Southampton in the league that is one less than Aly Dia...Look him up if you have never heard from him

Thomason and Maghoma agreed are decent Championship players yet have less Championship apps than Apter and Blackett-Taylor

You are correct in we do not know if this current crop will get us promoted, but the 23/24 squad did not and that is now in the History books

[masi 51]

59 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I did find the "better CV" thing a bit puzzling.

He might turn out to be the next Andy Walker, but his career is in front of him and Charles and Collins are proven, not proven to be perfect or exactly what we need, but you knew you were getting a goal every 3 or so starts from them (same with McAtee), we really don't know what Kenny is going to turn into, and last night didn't give us many clues.

The quote of a better CV with Kenny is that if he hung his boots up Today is a little tongue in cheek as he has really done nothing yet. Though he has represented his Country, Played in a final, played in the Scottish Premier league, Scoring in a old firm game and playing in Europe all in a six month period looks very good 

[waffer cup 07]

Total overeaction by Liam Richardson to an accidental injury to his player by Kenny, saying it was a deliberate stamp. If this player hadn't dropped like he'd been shot, right in front of Kenny it would'nt have happened. Guess he was mad because they were being completely out played.

[Eddie]

31 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Did we? Kenny should've scored. Apter's was a good chance, Dalby is capable of scoring those headers but it would've taken a good effort. So maybe 3 games where we kept clean sheets and took every chance.

I'm loathe to bring up XG but ours yesterday was 1.9, which feels about right to me. We didn't create enough after they scored.

Blackett Taylor at the back post late in the second half, Apter’s chance which he made for himself, plus our goal. 

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, ianofcleveleys said:

The journeys of players, especially outside the Prem are rarely linear, they can go somewhere where everything suits them (team mates, set up, manager, level) and look great, then be somewhere (or even in the same place) where it isnt all bob on for them and look a donkey. 

Charles is arguably as good as an example of that, having a torrid time and subject to some nasty abuse by some of the Hudds fans last night

Those numbers of Nlundulu's at Soton are still baffling 😂

Fair to say Liam Manning's honeymoon didn't last long.  1 point from last 3 games v Doncaster, Stevenage and Blackpool, and lost at home to Doncaster in t'cup. Apparently no shots on target in 182 minutes or something.

Apparently chants at Charles and cheering/booing when he went off.  Not pleasant.

[woolli]

1 minute ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Fair to say Liam Manning's honeymoon didn't last long.  1 point from last 3 games v Doncaster, Stevenage and Blackpool, and lost at home to Doncaster in t'cup. Apparently no shots on target in 182 minutes or something.

Apparently chants at Charles and cheering/booing when he went off.  Not pleasant.

All good for us if we get them in the play offs.

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, woolli said:

All good for us if we get them in the play offs.

I reckon Luton take that spot, the other 3 staying as we as is (albeit maybe in a different order).