Luton Town (H)

[Kane57]

12 hours ago, Arrested development said:

Feel free to find some footage because there's a fucking lot this season on Conway getting caught out. 

No argument there, but let's not pretend Johnston is an upgrade 

[Mounts Kipper]

I think Conway getting bit of a raw deal, if you are employed as a wing back you are always going to have occasions when the ball is fed in behind you, a switch to a back 3 would ensure that he’s covered when out of position.

[masi 51]

Two wrongs will never make a right except maybe in this case they will

Going away with a slender lead playing GJ and Conway in front  of him will leave us stronger than playing either with a winger.

Again this is only a opinion and not a  fucking know it all comment 

[Stig]

13 hours ago, Traf said:

Tutu needs to be much stronger there, he's been outmuscled too easily

Exact same kind of goal conceded at Rotherham the other month. If the CBs can't get to it Tutu has no idea how to defend a cross. 

He's kind of the opposite problem of Conway, who can defend crosses but doesn't have the pace to stop the ball over the top.

Too late to change it now imo but as @Zog1 has been saying the 5 at the back would sort a lot of these problems defensively, but no idea how you'd accommodate the 3 in midfield I think we need as well as keep ACD on for almost all our goal threat.

For me it's a 433 that's needed. Sacrifice Cissoko or Gale for EE or Simons and tell Kenny he'll have to cover wide left without the ball.

[Stig]

21 minutes ago, Kane57 said:

No argument there, but let's not pretend Johnston is an upgrade 

The one thing we shouldn't be kidding ourselves about on this left sided issue is simply swapping Conway for Johnston improves things. All the evidence shows the exact same issues defensively whoever plays there, and Johnston is a worse footballer 

[Zog1]

22 minutes ago, Stig said:

Exact same kind of goal conceded at Rotherham the other month. If the CBs can't get to it Tutu has no idea how to defend a cross. 

He's kind of the opposite problem of Conway, who can defend crosses but doesn't have the pace to stop the ball over the top.

Too late to change it now imo but as @Zog1 has been saying the 5 at the back would sort a lot of these problems defensively, but no idea how you'd accommodate the 3 in midfield I think we need as well as keep ACD on for almost all our goal threat.

For me it's a 433 that's needed. Sacrifice Cissoko or Gale for EE or Simons and tell Kenny he'll have to cover wide left without the ball.

I think don't think it's too late as we've already trained and played with a back 3 a handful of times this season, often for periods rather than full games mind you, is it ideal no, but i think we could. 

I'd like to see us play 3421 (wing backs) with a dual no 10's with Rodrigues on the middle left and ACD as a roaming player on the middle right. 

It's also the only 2 man central midfield which properly fits Sheehan but next to him has to be Erhahon or Simions. 

I think it gives us better flexibility for the players we actually have, and as i keep reminding people its the formation SS used to get Plymouth up. 

 

 

 

[desperado]

Toal, Forino and Johnston all in there! 😂

I’m going to love it when these shit defenders help get us to the championship.

IMO they are inconsistent, not shit.

Yes they make mistakes, yes we need upgrades next season, but the way some go on you’d think we’ve got the shittest back line in L1.

[woolli]

18 hours ago, FrancisFogarty said:

I knew Bonham was out of position but I didn’t realise how far.

And how leaden his feet were.

Im know brain surgeon, but after about  3 corners, all to the back post, why didnt Bonham stand further back nearer the back post? If they did mixed it up, he would still have had time to re adjust himself!

[Stig]

6 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

I think don't think it's too late as we've already trained and played with a back 3 a handful of times this season, often for periods rather than full games mind you, is it ideal no, but i think we could. 

I'd like to see us play 3421 (wing backs) with a dual no 10's with Rodrigues on the middle left and ACD as a roaming player on the middle right. 

It's also the only 2 man central midfield which properly fits Sheehan but next to him has to be Erhahon or Simions. 

I think it gives us better flexibility for the players we actually have, and as i keep reminding people its the formation SS used to get Plymouth up. 

 

 

 

You have to drop one of Kenny or Dalby for that which I'm not a fan of. 

And although we've played a back 5 a couple of times this season we didn't look great using it. Would be a big gamble to switch on a play off game

[jeep]

2 minutes ago, woolli said:

Im know brain surgeon, but after about  3 corners, all to the back post, why didnt Bonham stand further back nearer the back post? If they did mixed it up, he would still have had time to re adjust himself!

That's obvious......

[Stig]

7 minutes ago, desperado said:

Toal, Forino and Johnston all in there! 😂

I’m going to love it when these shit defenders help get us to the championship.

IMO they are inconsistent, not shit.

Yes they make mistakes, yes we need upgrades next season, but the way some go on you’d think we’ve got the shittest back line in L1.

Is this weighted by successful sideways passes by any chance....?

[woolli]

6 minutes ago, jeep said:

That's obvious......

Obviously to obvious for thick as shit Bonham!

[Zog1]

8 minutes ago, Stig said:

You have to drop one of Kenny or Dalby for that which I'm not a fan of. 

And although we've played a back 5 a couple of times this season we didn't look great using it. Would be a big gamble to switch on a play off game

I put a lot of that down to it being a change of formation mid game, weird stuff like with Christie as a right centre back,  Gale as a wing back, and Bustow as a no 10. I'd have been shocked if it did work tbh with that lot in positons like that.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

19 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

and as i keep reminding people its the formation SS used to get Plymouth up. 

I don't think this has as much relevance as you think it does

[desperado]

3 minutes ago, Stig said:

Is this weighted by successful sideways passes by any chance....?

It’s flawed, and the source isn’t known for its intellectual evidence base, it’s very much surface click-bait material.

Some loose subjective comments with some questionable data. 

So definitely treat with a pinch of salt.

But even with that in mind there’s a balance out there, where there’s data, evidence and opinion to back it up, to put across the point that these defenders are not as shit as some of our fans are making out. 

[Tombwfc]

"Wanderers briefly used wing-backs this season and did so almost exclusively under the tutelage of former boss Ian Evatt, but Schumacher insists this is not the time to rip up the gameplan.

“We tried that,” he said. “Actually the last time we’d played at Stevenage and then Wigan away, going up against teams who we felt playing with wing-backs suited us.

“We could attack with a front four when we pushed Max (Conway) higher and that worked to an extent, but if we're honest we didn't create loads of chances in any of those games.

“It wasn't like we were well better creatively and I just felt that with the players that we've got and the way we have been dangerous this season, it's through the wide players, let's not hide behind that fact,

“They are not in brilliant form right now but that's where we've had our joy the majority of this season, the wide players providing goals and assists and cut-backs and crosses and whatever

“And if you are playing with two centre forwards then it's important to get wingers to put the ball in the box. So, yeah, we'll just keep going, keep believing in what we're doing and not say with four games to go, completely rip up the script because one bad performance doesn't mean we have to change anything.”

 

This was the 14th April. If people want to carry on discussing what we 'should' do, that's one thing. But short of doing a Mike Bassett he couldn't have made it much clearer what we will be doing. 

[Zog1]

Just now, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I don't think this has as much relevance as you think it does

I've just found it odd. Lets be honest, 4231 has never really worked for us all season, we've looked dominant maybe 3 times this season and we've scraped through by the skin of our teeth maybe 20 points. We didn't recruit to play it properly, we're playing a 4 at the back without 1/2 the players suitable to play it, namely a right and left full back. We're then scratching our heads on why it isn't a rock solid defence. 

Combing the above the poor/ inconsistant results, the lack of suitable players and the history of playing a formation which resolves that very issue, it's odd. 

 

 

[masi 51]

15 minutes ago, Stig said:

Is this weighted by successful sideways passes by any chance....?

That is exactly what it is based on.....Full of centre backs with Stevenage centre halfs filling first and third spot.

 

[desperado]

5 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

"Wanderers briefly used wing-backs this season and did so almost exclusively under the tutelage of former boss Ian Evatt, but Schumacher insists this is not the time to rip up the gameplan.

“We tried that,” he said. “Actually the last time we’d played at Stevenage and then Wigan away, going up against teams who we felt playing with wing-backs suited us.

“We could attack with a front four when we pushed Max (Conway) higher and that worked to an extent, but if we're honest we didn't create loads of chances in any of those games.

“It wasn't like we were well better creatively and I just felt that with the players that we've got and the way we have been dangerous this season, it's through the wide players, let's not hide behind that fact,

“They are not in brilliant form right now but that's where we've had our joy the majority of this season, the wide players providing goals and assists and cut-backs and crosses and whatever

“And if you are playing with two centre forwards then it's important to get wingers to put the ball in the box. So, yeah, we'll just keep going, keep believing in what we're doing and not say with four games to go, completely rip up the script because one bad performance doesn't mean we have to change anything.”

 

This was the 14th April. If people want to carry on discussing what we 'should' do, that's one thing. But short of doing a Mike Bassett he couldn't have made it much clearer what we will be doing. 

I think some folk walk around with ear defenders on, in their own world, believing their tactical knowledge is the answer to all our problems. 

[masi 51]

12 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

I put a lot of that down to it being a change of formation mid game, weird stuff like with Christie as a right centre back,  Gale as a wing back, and Bustow as a no 10. I'd have been shocked if it did work tbh with that lot in positons like that.

Whatever formation we play and at best it will be only three more games with this group of players it has to include Firino, RR, ACD, Dalby and Kenny......So for me it is a no

[Tombwfc]

12 minutes ago, desperado said:

It’s flawed, and the source isn’t known for its intellectual evidence base, it’s very much surface click-bait material.

Some loose subjective comments with some questionable data. 

So definitely treat with a pinch of salt.

But even with that in mind there’s a balance out there, where there’s data, evidence and opinion to back it up, to put across the point that these defenders are not as shit as some of our fans are making out. 

 

To be fair if your data comes back with Wigan having more top 20 players than Cardiff, and George Johnston having a better season than Cozier-Duberry, then it's probably due a bit more than a pinch of salt.

[desperado]

24 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

To be fair if your data comes back with Wigan having more top 20 players than Cardiff, and George Johnston having a better season than Cozier-Duberry, then it's probably due a bit more than a pinch of salt.

Granted not the best of examples to make a point. 😂

But I still maintain those players are not getting in any best 25 (flawed or otherwise) if they are shit. 

 

[Tombwfc]

28 minutes ago, desperado said:

Granted not the best of examples to make a point. 😂

But I still maintain those players are not getting in any best 25 (flawed or otherwise) if they are shit. 

 

 

By the same logic though, would the rest of our squad fail to crack a top 100 list if they were any good? On the wider list, next is Conway (58), then Dalby (97), Sheehan (119) and Christie (146). 

Although McAtee being rated as one of the worst players in the league (352 out of 389 eligible) might convince some there's validity to it.

This is one area where I'd trust the eyes of people who watch us over whatever 'data' this is based on. Sometimes numbers do mean nothing at all. In this case you'd be better off picking names out of a hat.

 

Edited Monday at 10:39 by Tombwfc

[Tonge moor green jacket]

12 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said:

If you're not having him fair enough, and 100% he isnt a left back, but in an away leg, even with his modest defending, he will be 10 times more use than Cissoko when they have the ball.

Yesterday he wandered about, towards the play on the opposite side, like a pub player, leaving Jones to walk up the wing into the wide open spaces behind him. He is as big a liability as Gale. 

If in that second leg we have anything to defend, Cissoko or Gale aren't going to help us to do that in any shape or form.

I agree wholeheartedly. 

Similar views were expressed about Tomo, and he has gone on to be very effective in a wide left role.

All a bit moot though, as there is no way SS would start with him there.

 

[masi 51]

1 hour ago, desperado said:

Granted not the best of examples to make a point. 😂

But I still maintain those players are not getting in any best 25 (flawed or otherwise) if they are shit. 

 

Number one is a 33 year old Journey man and the 25 does not include Dom Bollard....A Who in the right mind wrote this shit and B Ba Ba Blacksheep was not real