This Weather.....

[London Wanderer]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

The conditions that allow such a fire to grow and spread may well be as a result of climate change.

Surely that's just obvious, and this isn't a binary discussion between one or the other?

It’s bonkers that you even need to explain it to some people to be honest. But heyho. 
 

the conditions we’re seeing are “almost impossible” without climate change

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66289489

Sorry for the BBC link, I know they’re notoriously biased - towards scientific studies. 

[Spider]

17 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

It’s bonkers that you even need to explain it to some people to be honest. But heyho. 
 

the conditions we’re seeing are “almost impossible” without climate change

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66289489

Sorry for the BBC link, I know they’re notoriously biased - towards scientific studies. 

I tried to explain it by saying Grenfell was entirely the fault of a faulty tumble dryer, not a load of dodgy cladding that was a ticking timebomb.

But no, it was the tumble dryer to blame.

I imagine the builders wish they'd gone on the internet for a lawyer.

[gonzo]

Dry stuff burns better than wet stuff.

 

[London Wanderer]

43 minutes ago, Spider said:

I tried to explain it by saying Grenfell was entirely the fault of a faulty tumble dryer, not a load of dodgy cladding that was a ticking timebomb.

But no, it was the tumble dryer to blame.

I imagine the builders wish they'd gone on the internet for a lawyer.

 

4 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Dry stuff burns better than wet stuff.

 

Aye, not a bad comparison to be honest.

As I said,

 it’s bonkers people even need to find ways to explain it.
 
But RW knows best eh. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, London Wanderer said:

It’s bonkers that you even need to explain it to some people to be honest. But heyho. 
 

the conditions we’re seeing are “almost impossible” without climate change

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66289489

Sorry for the BBC link, I know they’re notoriously biased - towards scientific studies. 

Pity they're not always biased towards the truth though eh!

In fairness, none of them are.

Thing is with a lot of the reporting- it doesn't go deep enough, and that lays the platform for deniers.

Same with the protest groups.

Would be better if scientists were allowed into schools and sixth forms etc to present rigorously achieved results, rather than stonewall et al telling kids women have dicks.

How about a collaborative approach from the channels with regards to some genuinely accurate programming which they can all show, including how research is undertaken and how results interpreted.

 

[royal white]

3 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

 

Aye, not a bad comparison to be honest.

As I said,

 it’s bonkers people even need to find ways to explain it.
 
But RW knows best eh. 

I’m not the one claiming to know best. That’s the experts in politics, immigration, Brexit, football and everything else on here. 

 

The links spider provided were both started by arsonists. Now there’s many fires out there that weren’t, they would have been a better example to use. If you’re setting fire to dry land in Corfu and Rhodes in the middle of July then it’s going to Burn, whether that was last week, last month, 40 years ago or 200 years ago. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, royal white said:

I’m not the one claiming to know best. That’s the experts in politics, immigration, Brexit, football and everything else on here. 

 

The links spider provided were both started by arsonists. Now there’s many fires out there that weren’t, they would have been a better example to use. If you’re setting fire to dry land in Corfu and Rhodes in the middle of July then it’s going to Burn, whether that was last week, last month, 40 years ago or 200 years ago. 

To what extent?

How much is the excessive heat creating extreme conditions on the ground, and also in the air (winds). Are the conditions being created earlier, and lasting longer?

Is there a lack of ground water, leading to increasing death of shrubbery, and weakening soils, making subsequent recovery less effective, consequently compounding the problem?

More nuanced than saying simply the always happen.

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

To what extent?

How much is the excessive heat creating extreme conditions on the ground, and also in the air (winds). Are the conditions being created earlier, and lasting longer?

Is there a lack of ground water, leading to increasing death of shrubbery, and weakening soils, making subsequent recovery less effective, consequently compounding the problem?

More nuanced than saying simply the always happen.

I think you’re missing my point. Let’s start at the beginning would these fires have happened if an arsonist hadn’t have started them? 

 

[Spider]

It’s worth remembering that whilst things are bad, they could probably have been much worse.

The work of the last 20 years to reduce CO2 must have helped a bit. It’s not like nothing has ever been done.

So it’s not terminal yet, but it might have been. We’ll never know.

More work to do though.

[gonzo]

15 minutes ago, royal white said:

I’m not the one claiming to know best. That’s the experts in politics, immigration, Brexit, football and everything else on here. 

 

The links spider provided were both started by arsonists. Now there’s many fires out there that weren’t, they would have been a better example to use. If you’re setting fire to dry land in Corfu and Rhodes in the middle of July then it’s going to Burn, whether that was last week, last month, 40 years ago or 200 years ago. 

Id hazard a guess that the current climate is making it a lot more easier for these fires to grow. 

Ie the hottest temperatures ever recorded on this planet ever.

[Spider]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

I think you’re missing my point. Let’s start at the beginning would these fires have happened if an arsonist hadn’t have started them? 

 

64 weren’t started deliberately. Or I’d be surprised if they had been.

fires have always started “naturally”, but the frequency and difficulty in containing them seems to be getting worse every year.

[gonzo]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

I think you’re missing my point. Let’s start at the beginning would these fires have happened if an arsonist hadn’t have started them? 

 

No but they wouldn't have grown so fast and widespread if it wasnt for the current climate.

 

[Casino]

it was actually moist in corfu when we had a our 3 day heatwave in june

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, gonzo said:

No but they wouldn't have grown so fast and widespread if it wasnt for the current climate.

 

Thank you so it was arsonists to blame, as I said. Wasn’t difficult was it. 
 

 

[gonzo]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

Thank you so it was arsonists to blame, as I said. Wasn’t difficult was it. 
 

 

Do you not think the ground temperature played a part in it spreading the way it has?

Not just in Greece but in shit loads of other gaffs too?

Same gaffs that just so happen to be experiencing the hottest temperatures ever recorded on Planet Earth?

[Ani]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

Thank you so it was arsonists to blame, as I said. Wasn’t difficult was it. 
 

 

So your point is that the damage caused by arsonists is much worse because of how dry the land is ? 
 

I went to Zante about 20 years ago, there were fires there then as there on many Greek islands. The impact seems to have increased since then. 

[MickyD]

Just for clarity, you need to know there’s a difference between ‘cause of fire’ and ‘cause of development’

Grenfell was, indeed CAUSED by a faulty dryer. It’s development, however was the cladding.

Similarly, a wildfire is (in probably most cases) caused by human interaction; barbecues, deliberate ignition, careless discarding of smoking material, etc.

Perhaps a lightning strike may cause a wildfire but lightning is often accompanied by rainfall. I don’t think the magnification of sun’s rays through a broken bottle has ever caused a fire. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by MickyD
Shit spelling

[royal white]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Do you not think the ground temperature played a part in it spreading the way it has?

Not just in Greece but in shit loads of other gaffs too?

Same gaffs that just so happen to be experiencing the hottest temperatures ever recorded on Planet Earth?

Of course but it’s nearly always dry in Greece in mid July. We have wildfires over here when the temp is in the mid 70s for a few days so countries in hot regions are always more at risk especially when you add arsonists, smokers, BBQs etc to the equation.
 

 Do you think if the temperature last week was a couple of degrees lower then this wouldn’t have happened? 

[Spider]

Just now, MickyD said:

Just for clarity, you need to know there’s a depifference between ‘cause of fire’ and ‘cause of development’

Grenfell was, indeed CAUSED by a faulty dryer. It’s development, however was the cladding.

Similarly, a wildfire is (in probably most cases) caused by human interaction; barbecues, deliberate ignition, careless discarding of smoking material, etc.

Perhaps a lightening strike may cause a wildfire but lightening is often accompanied by rainfall. I don’t think the magnification of sun’s rays through a broken bottle has ever caused a fire. 

Fair play. Arson though suggests something deliberate and sinister

A fag butt chucked from a car window isn’t deliberate. It’s thick as fuck.

Either way, what STARTED the fires is surely not the point here

[royal white]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

Fair play. Arson though suggests something deliberate and sinister

A fag butt chucked from a car window isn’t deliberate. It’s thick as fuck.

Either way, what STARTED the fires is surely not the point here

Why not? If someone hadn’t of started the fire we wouldn’t be having this conversation would we 

[MickyD]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

Fair play. Arson though suggests something deliberate and sinister

A fag butt chucked from a car window isn’t deliberate. It’s thick as fuck.

Either way, what STARTED the fires is surely not the point here

A fag butt chucked out of a car window is a deliberate act same as one-punch killing of a person. The result of your choice is the same as if you’d set out to deliberately achieve the same outcome.

[Spider]

Just now, royal white said:

Why not? If someone hadn’t of started the fire we wouldn’t be having this conversation would we 

So you’re saying every wildfire ever was started on purpose?

It doesn’t bother you that they’re getting worse with each passing summer?

you’re just not that thick.

[royal white]

4 minutes ago, Spider said:

So you’re saying every wildfire ever was started on purpose?

It doesn’t bother you that they’re getting worse with each passing summer?

you’re just not that thick.

I’ve not said that, you’ve just made that up. 

[Spider]

5 minutes ago, royal white said:

I’ve not said that, you’ve just made that up. 

“If someone hadn’t of (sic) started the fire..”

You are saying that no arsonist, no problem.

Heres the problem, humans are causing the fires, and they’re also causing them more often. The extreme temperatures that (I think) you’ve acknowledged exist are contributing to the whole picture.

In short, it’s humans causing a problem that’s being made even worse by humans.

 

[royal white]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

“If someone hadn’t of (sic) started the fire..”

You are saying that no arsonist, no problem.

Heres the problem, humans are causing the fires, and they’re also causing them more often. The extreme temperatures that (I think) you’ve acknowledged exist are contributing to the whole picture.

In short, it’s humans causing a problem that’s being made even worse by humans.

 

On the links you provided yes. You’ve just tried to blame it on the weather/climate and tried to shrug off the suggestion arson was to blame. that’s not the case.