Who Should You Vote For?

[MalcolmW]

I've just started reworking the system I suggested in 2010 and will let you know the outcome (eventually) as it seems to meet your criterion.

What I can say for certain is that the SNP would come out with maybe 30 to 40 seats, and not 56 out of 59.

 

Con 257 (Scot 8, Wales 12, NE 7, Yorks 20, NW 27, WMids 27, EMids 20, East 31, SE 48, SW 30, London 27)

Lab 217 (Scot 15, Wales 16, NE 15, Yorks 24, NW 35, WMids 22, EMids 16, East 13, SE 16, SW 9, London 36)

UKIP 84 (Wales 6, NE 5, Yorks 10, NW 11, WMids 9, EMids 8, East 11, SE 13, SW 8, London 3)

LD 33 (Scot 4, Wales 1, NE 2, Yorks 2, NW 2, WMids 1, East 3, SE 6, SW 7, London 5)

SNP 32

PC 5

DUP 5

SF 5

Green 4 (SE 1, SW 1, London 2)

SDLP 3,

UUP 2

Alliance 2

Independent 1.

[bgoefc]

Con 257 (Scot 8, Wales 12, NE 7, Yorks 20, NW 27, WMids 27, EMids 20, East 31, SE 48, SW 30, London 27)

Lab 217 (Scot 15, Wales 16, NE 15, Yorks 24, NW 35, WMids 22, EMids 16, East 13, SE 16, SW 9, London 36)

UKIP 84 (Wales 6, NE 5, Yorks 10, NW 11, WMids 9, EMids 8, East 11, SE 13, SW 8, London 3)

LD 33 (Scot 4, Wales 1, NE 2, Yorks 2, NW 2, WMids 1, East 3, SE 6, SW 7, London 5)

SNP 32

PC 5

DUP 5

SF 5

Green 4 (SE 1, SW 1, London 2)

SDLP 3,

UUP 2

Alliance 2

Independent 1.

That looks about right. Where do we sign up Malc?

[Traf]

Con 257 (Scot 8, Wales 12, NE 7, Yorks 20, NW 27, WMids 27, EMids 20, East 31, SE 48, SW 30, London 27)

Lab 217 (Scot 15, Wales 16, NE 15, Yorks 24, NW 35, WMids 22, EMids 16, East 13, SE 16, SW 9, London 36)

UKIP 84 (Wales 6, NE 5, Yorks 10, NW 11, WMids 9, EMids 8, East 11, SE 13, SW 8, London 3)

LD 33 (Scot 4, Wales 1, NE 2, Yorks 2, NW 2, WMids 1, East 3, SE 6, SW 7, London 5)

SNP 32

PC 5

DUP 5

SF 5

Green 4 (SE 1, SW 1, London 2)

SDLP 3,

UUP 2

Alliance 2

Independent 1.

 

 

Shite

[MalcolmW]

Shite

 You're confusing it with Iraq.

[Traf]

 You're confusing it with Iraq.

 

If I was, I'd have used a different spelling.

[only1swanny]

System that people are happy with, till it works against them..

 

Didn't hear any labour supporters moaning for about 12 years...

[Guest]

System that people are happy with, till it works against them..

 

Didn't hear any labour supporters moaning for about 12 years...

 

It isn't Labour supporters moaning now though is it?

 

PR favours small parties, not big ones. Also any calculation is pointless because it is a huge assumption that people would vote the same way under PR as they do now. How many in safe Labour or Tory seats for example vote Green or UKIP or Monster Raving Loony party because they know it doesn't really matter. Were PR in force they may well vote for Labour or the Tories as that vote would suddenly make a difference.

 

Lib Dems who have long been proponents of PR forget this. How many of their voters might switch to one of the main parties if a vote for them actually mattered?

[only1swanny]

It isn't Labour supporters moaning now though is it?

 

PR favours small parties, not big ones. Also any calculation is pointless because it is a huge assumption that people would vote the same way under PR as they do now. How many in safe Labour or Tory seats for example vote Green or UKIP or Monster Raving Loony party because they know it doesn't really matter. Were PR in force they may well vote for Labour or the Tories as that vote would suddenly make a difference.

 

Lib Dems who have long been proponents of PR forget this. How many of their voters might switch to one of the main parties if a vote for them actually mattered?

 

How do they select which MP's represent though in this new system ?

[Traf]

Ip dip dog shit, I reckon.

[only1swanny]

Ip dip dog shit, I reckon.

 

 

Genuinely intrigued...

 

actually I've just read it.. election night would take about 7 weeks...

[birch-chorley]

the parties priority order their candidates and as they get a seat work their way down the list

 

It's the only thing that puts me off it, who is representing the local community? You'll end up with a load of MP's from London who have never even heard of some of the provinces.

 

You either have first past the post that is unfair for smaller parties or PR which doesn't take geography into account.

[MalcolmW]

How do they select which MP's represent though in this new system ?

 

The way I constructed my example was to combine around 6 constituencies into a single unit. I then allocated the seats using the D'Hondt method. While I obviously didn't specify who the MPs would be, they would be chosen in the same way as we elect MEPs from a party list. I also did an adjusted list as DC has stated his intention of reducing the total MPs from 650 to 600. To do this I simply reduced the numbers of MPs in those areas with smaller average electorates.

 

Locally I combined the 3 Bolton and 2 Bury seats, and with stunning originality called the area 'Bolton and Bury'.

Since the area has 5 MPs, parties gain one MP for each one sixth of the total votes they receive. The remaining MP(s) are allocated to the parties with the largest rump votes. Thus for B&B with 5 members, one seat is gained for 37,491 votes, so Labour get 2 and Conservatives get 2.

The final seat goes to UKIP with 37,066 votes, compared with 22,921 unallocated votes for Labour, 6,877 for LibDem, 4,878 for Green and 2,535 for Conservative.

If the area were reduced to 4 MPs then seats would be allocated on one fifth of the total vote (44,989), with the final seat(s) going to the highest unallacoted rump(s).

In this scenario Labour still get 2 but Conservative only get 1 from total votes.

The final seat goes to UKIP with their 37,066, compared to Con 32,528, Lab 7,925, LD 6,877 and Green 4,878.

[MalcolmW]

Genuinely intrigued...

 

actually I've just read it.. election night would take about 7 weeks...

 

It is the same system that we already use to elect MEPs.

The election was on Thursday. The counting was on Friday (daytime - nonoe of this overnight racing just so that Sunderland can win something), but the results were not announced until Sunday as that was the voting day in most countries and UK did not wish to influence voting elsewhere.

 

And Single Transferable Vote was used up to 1945 in a handful of Commons constituencies, but this was abolished by the Representation of the People Act, 1948. The last person to miss out in an English constituency as a result of re-allocated second choices was JB Priestley in the 1945 General Election.

[Gonk]

Ip dip dog shit, I reckon.

 

UKIP want to use Eeny, meeny, miny, moe

[bgoefc]

It's the only thing that puts me off it, who is representing the local community? You'll end up with a load of MP's from London who have never even heard of some of the provinces.

 

 

But thats exactly what happens now. I've been voting for over 3 decades and never once had either a labour or tory MP who came from within 100 miles of the constinuency where i lived.

Edited May 26, 2015 by bgoefc

[no balls]

But thats exactly what happens now. I've been voting for over 3 decades and never once had either a labour or tory MP who came from within 100 miles of the constinuency where i lied.

I think ours is born and bred Westhoughton, though I'm happy to be corrected if wrong on that.

There's plenty not though, I grant you that, like that terrorist sympathising bitch representing Bolton.

Edited May 26, 2015 by no balls

[Smiffs]

UKIP want to use Eeny, meeny, miny, moe

Na mate. They want to use Paul John Tony and Steve. None of that foreign muck.

[jules_darby]

But thats exactly what happens now. I've been voting for over 3 decades and never once had either a labour or tory MP who came from within 100 miles of the constinuency where i lived.

Our MP was born and bred in our constituency

[birch-chorley]

Our MP was born and bred in our constituency

So was ours

 

He's a wanderer too

[frank_spencer]

Ours is a Sheffield tory who was a councillor in Rotherham. Then failed to win a seat in Sheffield, Humber and Morecambe before setting his sights on Bury.

He lost to David Chaytor but got in when Chaytor was found to be a criminal.

[Traf]

Ours is a Scouser who lives is Helmshore.

 

But the boundaries need changing, our constituency stretches from Belmont in the West to Whitworth in the East.

[Sweep]

My local MP, Alistair Burt, was born in Bury and was MP for Bury North (83-97) until he got turfed out by Labour. He's now been down here as MP for North East Bedfordshire, which is as safe a Tory seat as you're likely to find, since 2001

 

I've met him, and he's actually alright, but he does seem like a career politician. Judging by the leaflets that are always coming through our door, he seems to enjoy being on a committee or two as well.

[Guest]

Don't think MPs need to be born and bred in the area they represent. Just do a decent job representing it. And actually spend time there.

[Traf]

My local MP, Alistair Burt, was born in Bury and was MP for Bury North (83-97) until he got turfed out by Labour. He's now been down here as MP for North East Halliwell, which is as safe a Tory seat as you're likely to find, since 2001

 

I've met him, and he's actually alright, but he does seem like a career politician. Judging by the leaflets that are always coming through our door, he seems to enjoy being on a committee or two as well.

[Guest]

I see Charles Kennedy has drained his last drop