Donald Dead Cat On Is Head Trump

[Sweep]

1 hour ago, Spider said:

He's doing really well.

Whaddaguy

[Winchester White]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

Didn't the majority change part way through the process? 

You could be right, it was a right mess for a while. Seems a strange system although ours is archaic.

[bolty58]

4 hours ago, kent_white said:

Quangos (plural) as opposed to quango's (possessive or contraction) 

😉😁

Deflection. Democrats. Dastardly.'''''''''''''''''''

[Tonge moor green jacket]

7 hours ago, kent_white said:

Quangos (plural) as opposed to quango's (possessive or contraction) 

😉😁

Scourge of our time them things.

Was hearing something in passing just the other day about the continued increase in the use over here.

Might have misheard, but I'm sure the figure was around £1bn in costs.

They/some even have their own pension schemes apparently- nowt wrong per se, but they must be of a fair old size, and you'd hope for some great benefit from them. 

Are they delivering value for money?

 

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/quango_rich_list_2025

Some insight. 

 

Edited October 1, 2025 by Tonge moor green jacket

[kent_white]

38 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Scourge of our time them things.

Was hearing something in passing just the other day about the continued increase in the use over here.

Might have misheard, but I'm sure the figure was around £1bn in costs.

They/some even have their own pension schemes apparently- nowt wrong per se, but they must be of a fair old size, and you'd hope for some great benefit from them. 

Are they delivering value for money?

 

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/quango_rich_list_2025

Some insight. 

 

That's capitalism for you! 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

13 minutes ago, kent_white said:

That's capitalism for you! 

Nah, that's irresponsible governance.

Like something out of Jaws.

Not my fault gov, "he made me do it".

[Cheese]

58 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Scourge of our time them things.

Was hearing something in passing just the other day about the continued increase in the use over here.

Might have misheard, but I'm sure the figure was around £1bn in costs.

They/some even have their own pension schemes apparently- nowt wrong per se, but they must be of a fair old size, and you'd hope for some great benefit from them. 

Are they delivering value for money?

 

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/quango_rich_list_2025

Some insight. 

 

Fuck me. If you're looking to the Tax Payers Alliance for "insight" it's no wonder you're puddled.

Edited October 1, 2025 by Cheese

[kent_white]

15 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Nah, that's irresponsible governance.

Like something out of Jaws.

Not my fault gov, "he made me do it".

I think it's the market paying market value......

[Tonge moor green jacket]

20 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I think it's the market paying market value......

No doubt.

So long as they're delivering that's fine. Therein is the issue- as I said value for money. 

As the article suggests, the distinctions are becoming blurred and the groups themselves becoming political and going beyond their remit.

Best of intentions, but needs revisiting. 

Also, as above, it becomes too easy a cop-out for ministers and senior civil servants.

Got to be a balance between ministerial responsibility and getting top quality, independent help.

I would quite like to see very senior captains of industry being given direct ministerial positions, and not necessarily career politicians.

Bring the expertise in house so to speak, reduce waste and bring more direct accountability. 

[jayjayoghani]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

Fuck me. If you're looking to the Tax Payers Alliance for "insight" it's no wonder you're puddled.

Founded by Matthew Elliott.

Quite the CV including founding "Conservative Friends of Russia".  

[Winchester White]

15 minutes ago, jayjayoghani said:

Founded by Matthew Elliott.

Quite the CV including founding "Conservative Friends of Russia".  

All cunts have roads to Russia. Farage and Reform have plenty despite what the puddled Aussie thinks.

[Cheese]

20 minutes ago, jayjayoghani said:

Founded by Matthew Elliott.

Quite the CV including founding "Conservative Friends of Russia".  

It seems TMGJ (along with millions of others) is very susceptible to that kind of political interference. I'm pretty confident Nathan Gill won't be the only Reform affiliate who's prosecuted for recieving Russian bribes in exchange for spreading pro-Putin propaganda in the UK.

Edited October 1, 2025 by Cheese

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

No doubt.

So long as they're delivering that's fine. Therein is the issue- as I said value for money. 

As the article suggests, the distinctions are becoming blurred and the groups themselves becoming political and going beyond their remit.

Best of intentions, but needs revisiting. 

Also, as above, it becomes too easy a cop-out for ministers and senior civil servants.

Got to be a balance between ministerial responsibility and getting top quality, independent help.

I would quite like to see very senior captains of industry being given direct ministerial positions, and not necessarily career politicians.

Bring the expertise in house so to speak, reduce waste and bring more direct accountability. 

You make some good points mate. 

I suppose one of the problems with bringing in those captains of industry is that they would need to be happy to tow a party line. And I think many would be unhappy with that. They'd also need to be elected. Which begs the question about what they would do if they failed to be elected? Or if they were voted out? 

I suppose the broader question might be, how do we get expertise and independence without losing accountability? 

Going back to the original article? Is Channel 4 a quango? I thought it was a private business? I know it's publicly owned but it makes it's revenue through advertising. It doesn't recieve a fee from the government. 

And one of the largest quangos (NHS England) is is the process of being abolished. 

[Winchester White]

Just now, kent_white said:

You make some good points mate. 

I suppose one of the problems with bringing in those captains of industry is that they would need to be happy to tow a party line. And I think many would be unhappy with that. They'd also need to be elected. Which begs the question about what they would do if they failed to be elected? Or if they were voted out? 

I suppose the broader question might be, how do we get expertise and independence without losing accountability? 

Going back to the original article? Is Channel 4 a quango? I thought it was a private business? I know it's publicly owned but it makes it's revenue through advertising. It doesn't recieve a fee from the government. 

And one of the largest quangos (NHS England) is is the process of being abolished. 

Don't we have that locksmith fella involved in probation? Is that not the kind of thing being discussed?

[kent_white]

5 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Don't we have that locksmith fella involved in probation? Is that not the kind of thing being discussed?

You've lost me? 😁

[Cheese]

35 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Don't we have that locksmith fella involved in probation? Is that not the kind of thing being discussed?

Yep. James Timpson, who has been running training schemes in prisons and employing ex-prisoners for decades. The exact type of person you'd want in that job. The Tories would just chuck it at some gimp who studied Latin at Oxford, while Reform would give it to a racist virgin with a Tiktok account.

Edited October 1, 2025 by Cheese

[Winchester White]

Just now, kent_white said:

You've lost me? 😁

Timpson bloke being involved in Government, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Timpson bloke being involved in Government, or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

I don't know mate? I don't know anything about that. Does he do sole replacements too? 😁

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

I don't know mate? I don't know anything about that. Does he do sole replacements too? 😁

It is indeed the James Timpson who runs the weird key-cutting/cobblers/dry-cleaning business.

[bolty58]

6 hours ago, kent_white said:

I don't know mate? I don't know anything about that. Does he do sole replacements too? 😁

Dab? Plaice? Flounder? Turbot?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

9 hours ago, kent_white said:

You make some good points mate. 

I suppose one of the problems with bringing in those captains of industry is that they would need to be happy to tow a party line. And I think many would be unhappy with that. They'd also need to be elected. Which begs the question about what they would do if they failed to be elected? Or if they were voted out? 

I suppose the broader question might be, how do we get expertise and independence without losing accountability? 

Going back to the original article? Is Channel 4 a quango? I thought it was a private business? I know it's publicly owned but it makes it's revenue through advertising. It doesn't recieve a fee from the government. 

And one of the largest quangos (NHS England) is is the process of being abolished. 

They wouldn't need to be elected.

Ministerial roles aren't elected positions, but appointed ones.

Lord Cameron was given the foreign Secretary's position, whilst being an unelected individual. 

The convention is that they are from parliament, to allow for scrutiny. 

If necessary, adjustments to processes could be made to alleviate any concerns.

Ministerial positions aren't all senior ones neither, so maybe these people could be used in "junior" roles, directly accountable to the minister.

If done properly, then they wouldn't necessarily need to tow a line- they would be appointed to do the job well.

That's arguably where parliament is weak: too political rather than looking at the bigger picture, and undertaking some roles in an apolitical way.

Look at your own profession: your own experience of each subsequent health minister pissing around with things, inducing significant costs. Ideas not always given time to work. You were a touch frustrated as you described the situation.

Maybe an individual(s) brought directly in house to sort things out for the benefit of patients, and not being unduly tied to any ideology/politics.

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

They wouldn't need to be elected.

Ministerial roles aren't elected positions, but appointed ones.

Lord Cameron was given the foreign Secretary's position, whilst being an unelected individual. 

The convention is that they are from parliament, to allow for scrutiny. 

If necessary, adjustments to processes could be made to alleviate any concerns.

Ministerial positions aren't all senior ones neither, so maybe these people could be used in "junior" roles, directly accountable to the minister.

If done properly, then they wouldn't necessarily need to tow a line- they would be appointed to do the job well.

That's arguably where parliament is weak: too political rather than looking at the bigger picture, and undertaking some roles in an apolitical way.

Look at your own profession: your own experience of each subsequent health minister pissing around with things, inducing significant costs. Ideas not always given time to work. You were a touch frustrated as you described the situation.

Maybe an individual(s) brought directly in house to sort things out for the benefit of patients, and not being unduly tied to any ideology/politics.

I know they don't (strictly) need to be elected. But in practice they usually are - so it would mean changing culture and convention I suppose. 

One issue is that although there are a lot of talented people in healthcare - it doesn't necessarily follow that because you've been a successful GP (for example) that you'll make a good leader on a national level. Christ knows - we have that problem even at a local level. 

It is frustrating having a new directive/s to follow when a new person comes in at the top though. But I think that organisations like NHS England acted as a buffer (or at least a check and balance) for new ministers. Now it's a direct line to Whitehall. Which is fine if you believe in the centralisation of power I suppose. Although I always thought you'd have advocated for sharing powers (I could be totally wrong though, so apologies if I'm putting words into your mouth). 

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Absolutely it doesn't follow. 

Nevertheless there are senior people, within the private sector, with experience of running organisations efficiently. 

Whether that be private health, environmental and agricultural, or whatever, moving away from ideologically driven policy, to pragmatic ones has to be worth looking at.

The Net Zero situation for example: laudable and necessary. However it hasn't been driven in a sensible, practical way. Thus the nah sayers have ammunition.

 

[ZiggyStardust]

13 hours ago, Winchester White said:

Don't we have that locksmith fella involved in probation? Is that not the kind of thing being discussed?

 

13 hours ago, kent_white said:

You've lost me? 😁

[Bertie]

The US government shutdown isn’t going to end well.  Dems simply trying to protect healthcare for the poor.  Republicans now trying to exploit the situation to purge funding for democrat states/projects led today by Trumpy’s cronie Russell Vought, an author of Project 2025 which was the far-right undemocratic blueprint for Trump’s second coming. Amongst other sinister policies it advocates sacking elected bodies and placing power under direct control of the president.

The US continues its slide to an evil, racist, vindictive, moral-free autocracy. Who better to lead than the orange tin pot dictator, currently excelling in posting fake racist AI memes on “truth” social.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg201rnw2zo