Politics

[wanderer1984]

50 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

The problem is, is that you are describing things at a micro not a macro level, that and its utter inanity.

'Its the work hard and it doesn't matter what happens with the national economy you will be fine' line so beloved of those that don't see the problems until they are there or the I worked hard and have a house rather than buy fancy coffee mob, which is so utterly wrong that'd I'd be tempted to ask you to sit in some of those school classes rather than build them furniture.

The country is poorer, this even effects those school budgets, and as budgest get cut work decreases for those reliant on the public sector as wages are stagnant in the face of inflation, or in the private where there is less money in the public purse to afford things.

Some people do well out of downturns, always have, but the vast majority get increasingly poorer, no matter how many hours are put in. Mortagages and Rents soaring and if you don't have the means for a second job or ability to engineer new clients to cut the cloth then goodbye.

The arrogance, and lets be honest sheer stupidity, of some to even ask the question - 'well are you hungry?' 'No?' 'Well, no problem then is there, pal' In the face of millions of people in the UK being fed by foodbanks in the seventh richest economy in the world is breathtaking, shameful and pinpoints just how fucking low we've fallen as a collective country; whilst all the time the government weedles at those divisions to remain in power and those idiotic enough to bite do.

Apologies, there is some strong perjoratives there, but after everything we've been through in the past decade, the state the country is in and everything that was warned about or even visible throughout history, that some people can still spit Tebbit-esque rot is something really starts to stick in the craw - although is shows how so many people were led to drink from this particular Brexit trough.

Personally I'm chasing late billing clients, I've not had a day off since christmas and thats literally not in an oh that was a nice bank holiday weekend back to Mon-Fri sort of way, not one day where I have not been with clients, working, billing, whatever - was hoping for a few days next week with the kids but a potentional new job has come up so I'm lucky enough to still have parents I can ask down to look after the kids whilst I pitch but still I understand I'm luckier than most but - and get this - it doesn't mean:

- Brexit hasn't economically impacted the country

- As a country we are poorer

- People have less money 

- and finally that Hard Work isn't just the magic arrow, as many equally hard working Britains would I'm sure, love to tell you.

 

I'm not in denial with what you say. I still believe everyone has a choice to make things better for themselves. Small things can make a big difference ... collectively a huge difference.

Helping others out that need it most is what some of us do best. I'll continue to do so and be positive rather then moan about things I can't control.

[wanderer1984]

6 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Yes we fucking do, in that our trading relationships would have been maintained.

So you can guarantee everyone involved in manufacturing would be better off without Brexit?

 

[Not in Crawley]

11 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

I'm not in denial with what you say. I still believe everyone has a choice to make things better for themselves. Small things can make a big difference ... collectively a huge difference.

Helping others out that need it most is what some of us do best. I'll continue to do so and be positive rather then moan about things I can't control.

You can control them - we can all vote, we can all make our voice heard when we know something isn't in the national interest.

Its not moaning - its standing up for a position you believe is correct, otherwise throughout the whole course of human history nothing would have ever changed.

I'd say 'just cracking on' is apathy at the moment, and that's the last thing this country needs.

[London Wanderer]

10 hours ago, wanderer1984 said:

I think you're wrong. For a start ... Someone that has nothing to lose has exactly that. Things stay the same for them or it gets better. You've got to go out and do it yourself.

Before brexit I lived month to month and rented. Everything me (council employee) and my wife (NHS Nurse) earned ... we spent on bills and debt. No going out, no holidays away (except local camping) No fancy cars or takeaways, debt collectors at the door ... it was grim.

I worked more and set up a second income making outdoor furniture for schools, community centres etc. Making more money wasnt down to Brexit, its what we needed to do for a better life. Most the debt we had was in my wife's name. She decided to get a IVA. Still has it now.

We fucked up in the past with our money. But WE made it right through hard work. If your mindset is to blame others for your misfortune without doing anything about it ... you deserve to be miserable.

You're saying without Brexit I'd be better off? I guess it's the case for some. Mostly to those that already have enough money.

I still rent a house worth a lot more then I could ever afford. I've two decent cars and now go on 3 holidays abroad a year. If that's down to brexit I'm a lucky one. But I know it isn't ... we've just work hard and now live comfortably. 

 

 

Good post this, enjoyed reading it.

Credit to you. Your carpentry skills are ace 👍 I’ve put in a grant application in for an outdoor cooking kitchen. So if the money comes through I might have to get in touch. 

Have to agree with NiC on the latter posts though. As you say, it’s just your experiences on a micro level. The reality is we are (as a country) worse off after Brexit. Of course we’ve got to take into account Covid, the Ukraine invasion & cost of living etc. 

Most importantly, none of the proposed benefits we were promised have come to fruition. One of the biggest scams in UK political history. It surprises me that folk who voted Leave still try to defend it.

[London Wanderer]

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

You can control them - we can all vote, we can all make our voice heard when we know something isn't in the national interest.

Its not moaning - its standing up for a position you believe is correct, otherwise throughout the whole course of human history nothing would have ever changed.

I'd say 'just cracking on' is apathy at the moment, and that's the last thing this country needs.

Spot on

[Not in Crawley]

9 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

So you can guarantee everyone involved in manufacturing would be better off without Brexit?

 

Why do you insist on asking completly facile questions? They don't prove a point, one way or another. 

Whatever way the vote went no one could say 100% of people involved in manufacturing would be better off - whatever the result, that's not how these things work.

But we do know (as we did at the time, because we were told) that there would be real difficluties in leaving our biggest trading partner with exports - and its been the case. 

[mickbrown]

53 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Everyone that voted brexit is racist?

Certainly not  

Although every racist voted Brexit. 

[wanderer1984]

21 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

25 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

You can control them - we can all vote, we can all make our voice heard when we know something isn't in the national interest.

Its not moaning - its standing up for a position you believe is correct, otherwise throughout the whole course of human history nothing would have ever changed.

I'd say 'just cracking on' is apathy at the moment, and that's the last thing this country needs.

 

Ok ... So what do you do to get your voice heard?

Instead of just cracking on ... what do you do to make a difference?

[wanderer1984]

25 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Why do you insist on asking completly facile questions? They don't prove a point, one way or another. 

Whatever way the vote went no one could say 100% of people involved in manufacturing would be better off - whatever the result, that's not how these things work.

But we do know (as we did at the time, because we were told) that there would be real difficluties in leaving our biggest trading partner with exports - and its been the case. 

You said things are worse ... I said not for everyone. You cant predict circumstances that didnt happen. I'm not trying to prove a point ... you are. 

[Ani]

28 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Ok ... So what do you do to get your voice heard?

Instead of just cracking on ... what do you do to make a difference?

You enter into debate with people and when you get the chance you vote.

Of course it can feel like 'what difference do I make ? Or can I make ?' But it is not about the individual impact it is the collective power of a group of people. It is true in every aspect of life if you feel strongly enough about something and can generate the energy and support you can make a difference. 
 

Brexit is an example, Farage a one time was seen as a loony grifter pushing an agenda that would never go anywhere, roll on a few years, he is now a loony grifter who won the biggest vote in history. The Postmasters never gave up, the Hillsborough families. Sometimes just 'cracking on' is not enough. If you are happy that is what you want to do, fair play but there may well be something at some time in your life that needs more than 'cracking on' for different people it will be different things

Edited April 4 by Ani

[Cheese]

18 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Ok ... So what do you do to get your voice heard?

Instead of just cracking on ... what do you do to make a difference?

Everyone has been "cracking on" ffs. Do you think everyone who voted Remain just downed tools after the referendum or something?

[Ani]

17 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

You said things are worse ... I said not for everyone. You cant predict circumstances that didnt happen. I'm not trying to prove a point ... you are. 

You are trying to make a point though are nt you ? 

[London Wanderer]

30 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Ok ... So what do you do to get your voice heard?

Instead of just cracking on ... what do you do to make a difference?

He’s fairly active in his local Labour Party tbf. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, mickbrown said:

Certainly not  

Although every racist voted Brexit. 

That really isn't the case

[wanderer1984]

57 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Everyone has been "cracking on" ffs. Do you think everyone who voted Remain just downed tools after the referendum or something?

Apparently it's not enough. Not my words

[Sweep]

15 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

That really isn't the case

Do you know any racists that didn't vote for it 

[wanderer1984]

57 minutes ago, Ani said:

You are trying to make a point though are nt you ? 

That everything is not all bad and with your own effort you can make changes to gain reward.

It may be financial or mentally. It could be for others or for yourself.

[royal white]

2 hours ago, Farrelli said:

Well those people who are just about making ends meet are going to see their food bill rise. The food banks are just going to get busier. It is totally self inflicted.

So are you saying if we voted remain food banks would be less busier? 

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

Apparently it's not enough. Not my words

The words of Top Gear Magazine?

[wanderer1984]

51 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

He’s fairly active in his local Labour Party tbf. 

I'm not saying he isn't. Fair play to him.

But he's an exception to others on here.

[wanderer1984]

Just now, Cheese said:

The words of Top Gear Magazine?

Read back and you'll find your answer 👍🏻

[Sweep]

I appreciate all this "cracking on with it" and things are as good/bad as you make them sentiment, and there is some merit to that. However, it can't be denied, that it is more difficult to trade with the EU now, than it was previously. Anybody who thinks any different, is a moonman.

For balance, I know several customers who are doing a lot better now than they did before we left, and I also know several companies who have a lot worse off, and some of them have either gone bust, or relocated to the EU.

Generally, in my opinion, those who had "healthier finances" before we left have done OK, and those who "struggled from month to month" before we left have suffered

 

As ever, winners and losers.

[wanderer1984]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

I appreciate all this "cracking on with it" and things are as good/bad as you make them sentiment, and there is some merit to that. However, it can't be denied, that it is more difficult to trade with the EU now, than it was previously. Anybody who thinks any different, is a moonman.

For balance, I know several customers who are doing a lot better now than they did before we left, and I also know several companies who have a lot worse off, and some of them have either gone bust, or relocated to the EU.

Generally, in my opinion, those who had "healthier finances" before we left have done OK, and those who "struggled from month to month" before we left have suffered

 

As ever, winners and losers.

A great point that backs my ... how do you know what would have happened if brexit didn't happen? It could have been worse for those that are doing great now and marginal better for those that still go month to month.

Did everyone expect things to be wonderful because the government told them it would? All winners?

[Traf]

19 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Do you know any racists that didn't vote for it 

Are you suggesting he knows lots of racists? 😉 

[Sweep]

3 minutes ago, wanderer1984 said:

A great point that backs my ... how do you know what would have happened if brexit didn't happen? It could have been worse for those that are doing great now and marginal better for those that still go month to month.

Did everyone expect things to be wonderful because the government told them it would? All winners?

Nobody can ever predict 100% what would or wouldn't happen, however, in my industry (electronics) Brexit has generally made things worse for nearly everybody, that's just a fact.

The smaller a company is/was, the more they have been affected, and that's down to finances and lack of resource as much as anything. Many of those who went bust or relocated, would have been better off had we stayed in the EU, of that there is no doubt. Of course, those companies suffering, allowed other larger companies to steal a march and start absorbing that business.....although that will always be the case in business, "big almost always fucks over small in the long term"