Politics

[Escobarp]

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Isn't she just using precisely the same tactics that the leave campaign (very successfully) used?

Not quite I wouldn’t say. Some Similar arguments/points absolutely yes. But on the flip side is it not hypocritical of her and the SNP to use that argument, given they are so vociferous against breaking/weakening  ties with your largest market. Which for Scotland I believe is the Uk not the EU? By a long long way. 
 

I cannot personally see an economic argument for Scottish independence that holds any water. Ive honestly yet to see one that’s actually made me think “hang on a minute” 

[ZiggyStardust]

52 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

I disagree but time will tell. The Scottish fishing industry and seed potatoes farming sector have been left high and dry by the deal. Add into the mix Boris  Johnson’s general opinion of devolution (“a disaster” I think he called it) and it’s hard to see any other outcome. Just a matter of time now.

The fishers have more than they have now. The seed potatoes have less.

The fishers have aprrox an extra £20m per year, the potatoes have lost about £10m.

The fishers will be able to catch more than the EU currently allows, but they have been screwed ?

Spin, spin, and more spin.

 

[Casino]

1 hour ago, Escobarp said:

 This isn’t about economic prosperity for a large swathe of people. It’s about nationalism 

Indeed

Hence 52% voting for it

[Cheese]

3 hours ago, paulhanley said:

Like Cheese you seem to have nowt left but personal abuse, which speaks volumes. 

No answer on the subject matter of the antics between 2017 and 2019 I note.

Now who's re-writing history? Please point out where I sent you personal abuse. Thanks.

[Ani]

11 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Not quite I wouldn’t say. Some Similar arguments/points absolutely yes. But on the flip side is it not hypocritical of her and the SNP to use that argument, given they are so vociferous against breaking/weakening  ties with your largest market. Which for Scotland I believe is the Uk not the EU? By a long long way. 
 

I cannot personally see an economic argument for Scottish independence that holds any water. Ive honestly yet to see one that’s actually made me think “hang on a minute” 

I have no understanding of the roots of Scottish nationalism but the concept of wanting to be tied to the EU but not wanting to be part of the UK just seems like a total contradiction. 
 

It is strange on this thread that it still seems to along the lines we have seen for last few years. Really the only ones pissed off should be those who wanted ‘no deal’.  Remainers such as myself should happy that we have ended at the furthest side of the spectrum. Not sure where those calling for no deal on here have gone. 
 

It would be interesting (although probs. Impossible) to know how the 52/48 split now would look with a seemingly workable deal on the table. 

[Escobarp]

2 minutes ago, Ani said:

I have no understanding of the roots of Scottish nationalism but the concept of wanting to be tied to the EU but not wanting to be part of the UK just seems like a total contradiction. 
 

It is strange on this thread that it still seems to along the lines we have seen for last few years. Really the only ones pissed off should be those who wanted ‘no deal’.  Remainers such as myself should happy that we have ended at the furthest side of the spectrum. Not sure where those calling for no deal on here have gone. 
 

It would be interesting (although probs. Impossible) to know how the 52/48 split now would look with a seemingly workable deal on the table. 

Probably about the same roughly half and half split there or thereabouts 

Re Scottish nationalists like I’ve said it’s really odd that they want to sever ties with their biggest single trading market which is the uk. Ive had a look and they do 3x more trade with the Uk than the EU yet they wish to align with the EU but remove themselves from UK. Just seems contradictory as you correctly point out. There entire argument and basis for independence is that same one used by part of the leave campaign and brexiteers. I’m surprised people cannot see through it. 

[Escobarp]

But what do I know I’m a thick owd racist. 😁

[Ani]

2 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

But what do I know I’m a thick owd racist. 😁

How old are you ? 😎

[Cheese]

27 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

The fishers have more than they have now. The seed potatoes have less.

The fishers have aprrox an extra £20m per year, the potatoes have lost about £10m.

The fishers will be able to catch more than the EU currently allows, but they have been screwed ?

Spin, spin, and more spin.

You should tell the NFFO.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-26/fishing-industry-has-been-sacrificed-to-secure-post-brexit-deal-industry-leader-says

 

[Escobarp]

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

How old are you ? 😎

Several years younger than you mate 😁

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Farrelli said:

I disagree but time will tell. The Scottish fishing industry and seed potatoes farming sector have been left high and dry by the deal. Add into the mix Boris  Johnson’s general opinion of devolution (“a disaster” I think he called it) and it’s hard to see any other outcome. Just a matter of time now.

Seed potatoes- they can't sell them to NI. But instead they could just let them grow on and sell as eating spuds, or sell them elsewhere.

Plenty of industries are having to make alterations. 

How absolutely desperate are you.

[Ani]

Pretty sure we do not have the capacity to fish our own quotas at the moment  

[ZiggyStardust]

18 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You should tell the NFFO.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-26/fishing-industry-has-been-sacrificed-to-secure-post-brexit-deal-industry-leader-says

 

Oh they already know.

Thats why at no point do they say they will be worse off than currently. Rather that they expected more.

infact, you seem to have missed this at the bottom of the article, that you, yourself, have quoted:

Quote

Speaking earlier on Saturday, he added that although the deal “will inevitably be seen by the fishing industry as a defeat”, negotiations have been successful in “having fought off EU’s attempts to tie the UK back into CFP (Common Fisheries Policy)-like arrangements”, which will allow the UK to “develop and apply its own fisheries management systems, tailored to its own fisheries”.

Mr Deas said prior to the agreement, the EU “benefited disproportionately from free access to fish in UK waters and unbalanced quota shares agreed in 1983”, adding that fishermen are awaiting publication of “detailed stock by stock schedules agreed” to find out what this means for their businesses.

But , apparently, they have been 'left high and dry'.

[Farrelli]

18 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Seed potatoes- they can't sell them to NI. But instead they could just let them grow on and sell as eating spuds, or sell them elsewhere.

Plenty of industries are having to make alterations. 

How absolutely desperate are you.

I’m simply stating that I think brexit will hasten Scotland becoming independent, I would rather it stayed in the UK but that is the way it’s going IMO. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 minutes ago, Ani said:

Pretty sure we do not have the capacity to fish our own quotas at the moment  

We dont, nor the internal market.

Interestingly, Mr Deas wrote this a while ago.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/country-and-farming/barrie-deas-scallop-wars-skirmish-compared-bigger-game-brexit-259924

An interesting piece with examples of unequal and unfair set up of eu fishing rights etc.

Also an interesting penultimate paragraph- suggesting a decent compromise agreement should be achievable. 

Now when is achieved he's complaining- so let's look at what has been achieved.

The EU wanted 14 years access we offered 3. Settled for 5.

After this time, all quotas etc need to be renegotiated, and we can exclude the eu fleet entirely.

Lots of complexity, but it seems more than reasonable, and if anything a touch in our favour.

Not sure what he expected, but if we haven't the capacity to fish it ourselves, then it seems very sensible to sell quotas/rights until we do.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

I’m simply stating that I think brexit will hasten Scotland becoming independent, I would rather it stayed in the UK but that is the way it’s going IMO. 

Because of a few spuds?

Jesus.

Perhaps they should grow grain, as potentially, the scotch whiskey market could boom tremendously. 

SNP don't give a toss; they'll spin anything into a leave the UK message.

Which is their perogative. 

[miamiwhite]

19 minutes ago, Ani said:

Pretty sure we do not have the capacity to fish our own quotas at the moment  

Least of our Brexit ideals as you know you little desperate tinker 😉 

Re those from North of the border, said it many times already, they really haven't thought the economic side of independence over. Though Sturgeon and her bigots would be happy with the EU passport, how ironic, a huge loss in GDP, struggle to loan funds, not the sovereignty they originally expect and scenes like The Gorbals again.

That isn't Project Thistle, that is reality.

[Farrelli]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Because of a few spuds?

Jesus.

Perhaps they should grow grain, as potentially, the scotch whiskey market could boom tremendously. 

SNP don't give a toss; they'll spin anything into a leave the UK message.

Which is their perogative. 

No of course not. It’s just another thing on the list. Basically they want to make their own decisions and who could blame them? They get treated with a fair amount of contempt by this Tory government who have very few MPs in Scotland anymore,  ditto Labour.

[Jol_BWFC]

I tell you what, there are a lot of remainers still living rent free in Paul Hangry’s head. I would have expected them to have been evicted last week, but it doesn’t look like they’re going anywhere.

[ZiggyStardust]

I see that the forecated huge price increases in food are coming true after brexit:

 

Quote

Any changes to food prices after Brexit are likely to be "very modest indeed" under the deal struck between the UK and the EU, the chairman of Tesco has said.

John Allan told the BBC that it would "hardly be felt in terms of the prices that consumers are paying".

But he told BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend that the deal agreed this week meant any noticeable changes in food costs for consumers were unlikely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948

[Escobarp]

It isn’t Paul your concern should be for mate 

[Escobarp]

Just now, ZiggyStardust said:

I see that the forecated huge price increases in food are coming true after brexit:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948

What about the shortage of medicines?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

I see that the forecated huge price increases in food are coming true after brexit:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948

Quelle surprise 

[miamiwhite]

7 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

No of course not. It’s just another thing on the list. Basically they want to make their own decisions and who could blame them? They get treated with a fair amount of contempt by this Tory government who have very few MPs in Scotland anymore,  ditto Labour.

Right ok, we know what they think.

How are they actually going to put this into theory ?

They haven't thought it thoroughly, even their own economic forecasts agree they will really struggle.

Independence for the Scots is more jingoistic than Brexit ever will be, but yet the happy clappers haven't mentioned that once.

Let them go for it I say, build the wall back up, swap Esco and his family for Spider, then close it quickly 😃 

[Spider]

1 minute ago, miamiwhite said:

Right ok, we know what they think.

How are they actually going to put this into theory ?

They haven't thought it thoroughly, even their own economic forecasts agree they will really struggle.

Independence for the Scots is more jingoistic than Brexit ever will be, but yet the happy clappers haven't mentioned that once.

Let them go for it I say, build the wall back up, swap Esco and his family for Spider, then close it quickly 😃 

What will you do with all the union jacks though?