Politics

[Mounts Kipper]

11 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Who is having a tantrum? I'm just reading through concerns that certain people have.

As I say, if the only counter arguement is either shut up, or we won, then it's probably time to question your position as it doesn't really seem that strong.

If you have something actually valid to say to counter people's concerns, I'm sure that people would like to hear them.

Otherwise you come across as not only childish, but that you didn't really understand what you voted for and what the outcome so far has been.

You are on the sulker side… life’s full of concerns, leaving the eu is well down the list of concerns… just some folk like to blame virtually everything on leaving the EU… we chose to leave that’s democracy.. better folk concentrated on making their life’s better rather than using a comfort blanket for all the ills. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

Hold on there bald eagle - that's a more than slightly misreading what happened - true there was a push by the unions for Labour to back a second ref, which was really about getting Corybn elected so that they could push through a Labour Brexit Deal - which was pretty similar to the one Johnson had - rather than a Conservative one. It wasn't really about getting us back into the EU.

Which again is all the more astonishing how Starmer has changed the party in such a short space of time

I wasn't referring to the Labour Party

[mickbrown]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You are on the sulker side… life’s full of concerns, leaving the eu is well down the list of concerns… just some folk like to blame virtually everything on leaving the EU… we chose to leave that’s democracy.. better folk concentrated on making their life’s better rather than using a comfort blanket for all the ills. 

Folk change their mind. 

People see things in a new light when the full ramifications of their decisions reveal themselves. 
 

Maybe we should have another vote some time. 

[Not in Crawley]

6 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I wasn't referring to the Labour Party

The smaller parties couldn't massively hold things up that much given the government's majority.

[gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You are on the sulker side… life’s full of concerns, leaving the eu is well down the list of concerns… just some folk like to blame virtually everything on leaving the EU… we chose to leave that’s democracy.. better folk concentrated on making their life’s better rather than using a comfort blanket for all the ills. 

On the flip side folk like yourself wander about with your head in the clouds brushing of any form a reasonable debate as to brexit not really playing out well as people sulking, losing or remoaning.

Real, actual life has not improved for anyone since brexit. Not all brexits fault. Nowhere near it. But our country as a whole is not better.

Saying that isn't downing tool or saying everyone's life is shit. It's just saying its not really gone according to plan and all those promises haven't been delivered.

I really don't get the polarisation.

[Not in Crawley]

10 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You are on the sulker side… life’s full of concerns, leaving the eu is well down the list of concerns… just some folk like to blame virtually everything on leaving the EU… we chose to leave that’s democracy.. better folk concentrated on making their life’s better rather than using a comfort blanket for all the ills. 

Sulking? What are you on about? There are genuine concerns that haven't been addressed. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

The smaller parties couldn't massively hold things up that much given the government's majority.

Or the smaller parties

[royal white]

4 minutes ago, gonzo said:

On the flip side folk like yourself wander about with your head in the clouds brushing of any form a reasonable debate as to brexit not really playing out well as people sulking, losing or remoaning.

Real, actual life has not improved for anyone since brexit. Not all brexits fault. Nowhere near it. But our country as a whole is not better.

Saying that isn't downing tool or saying everyone's life is shit. It's just saying its not really gone according to plan and all those promises haven't been delivered.

I really don't get the polarisation.

You don’t know this though do you, you’re taking a massive stab in the dark based on your own situation and people you know. 

[Not in Crawley]

5 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Or the smaller parties

Ooooh, interesting...left lawyers? Sinister Slags? One Nation conservatives, The Lords.....

Go on  - don't keep us in suspense here!

[Not in Crawley]

6 minutes ago, royal white said:

You don’t know this though do you, you’re taking a massive stab in the dark based on your own situation and people you know. 

We went through this earlier. 

You made an assumption that those still pro Brexit in the majority had benefited, but then agreed that actually there are a myriad of reasons as you yourself said it was about seeing the will of the vote done.

Now this has been, I asked you if it was acceptable if people now questions this, as we do with most poluitical decisions in a democracy such as ours - you say you've answered byt I'll be honest I've not scrolled back. If you do find this acceptable then we can have a debate about what it has achieved so far and what might be on the horizon.

What people are saying is that we've not seen many benefits and there's not that much in the future that looks like delievering. Kicking this into the long grass, or telling people that they should shut up if they have real concerns about the direction this country has taken after Brexit isn't really how things work in our political system, unless you prefer a more authoritian regime, which sort of goes against the British values many supporters of Brexit expouse.

Just a thought.

 

 

[gonzo]

11 minutes ago, royal white said:

You don’t know this though do you, you’re taking a massive stab in the dark based on your own situation and people you know. 

I mean generally mate. Everyone's bills are higher, there are more migrants if that's your issue, NHS is on its arse..etc etc.

Brexit hasn't made these issue any better like it was supposed to. 

Not caused them. But not made them better. 

[Not in Crawley]

18 minutes ago, gonzo said:

On the flip side folk like yourself wander about with your head in the clouds brushing of any form a reasonable debate as to brexit not really playing out well as people sulking, losing or remoaning.

Real, actual life has not improved for anyone since brexit. Not all brexits fault. Nowhere near it. But our country as a whole is not better.

Saying that isn't downing tool or saying everyone's life is shit. It's just saying its not really gone according to plan and all those promises haven't been delivered.

I really don't get the polarisation.

I'd be all ears for what outcomes are expected - and ones that aren't worse than we had, or don't amount to a hill of beans.

If Brexit was the correct path, surely the supporters of leaving the EU would have stronger arguements to back up their position other than someone is sulking but saying, 'please tell me, what has or will improve?' if a position can't even withstand such gentle probing, it will appear weak and doesn't much give those with doubts an reassurance that the country made the correct decision.

[royal white]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

I mean generally mate. Everyone's bills are higher, there are more migrants if that's your issue, NHS is on its arse..etc etc.

Brexit hasn't made these issue any better like it was supposed to. 

Not caused them. But not made them better. 

Not sure how Brexit was meant to make bills lower especially with the little kick off that happened in Russia. With the immigrants I agree. NHS…..is that the problem with workers not coming over? 

[royal white]

10 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

We went through this earlier. 

You made an assumption that those still pro Brexit in the majority had benefited, but then agreed that actually there are a myriad of reasons as you yourself said it was about seeing the will of the vote done.

Now this has been, I asked you if it was acceptable if people now questions this, as we do with most poluitical decisions in a democracy such as ours - you say you've answered byt I'll be honest I've not scrolled back. If you do find this acceptable then we can have a debate about what it has achieved so far and what might be on the horizon.

What people are saying is that we've not seen many benefits and there's not that much in the future that looks like delievering. Kicking this into the long grass, or telling people that they should shut up if they have real concerns about the direction this country has taken after Brexit isn't really how things work in our political system, unless you prefer a more authoritian regime, which sort of goes against the British values many supporters of Brexit expouse.

Just a thought.

 

 

Gonzo said that actual life has not improved for anyone since Brexit. That’s totally false. 

[Casino]

Somebody mentioned 10, 20, 30 years

By then the majority for re joining will likely be much greater as racist owd buggers die off

[Tonge moor green jacket]

The issue over energy costs is complex and largely unconnected to being in or out of the EU.

We're heavily focusing on developing renewables which will also help with energy security. 

That clearly has a cost implication, so folk still moan. 

Wind (maybe both wind/solar) generated electricity has just dropped in cost below that of fossil fuels, so in time, that positive should filter through. 

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

Gonzo said that actual life has not improved for anyone since Brexit. That’s totally false. 

There is also taking a point a little literally, you know as well as I do what he is saying is that for the majority of people there have been very few real, tangible benefits - which is why certain people's defence of their support of Brexit seems a little shallow. And if there is only a few people benefitting - other than people shorting the stock market I'm not sure there are many more - surely as a country we have a right to ask, when will it improve for the majority, no?

[royal white]

Just now, Casino said:

Somebody mentioned 10, 20, 30 years

By then the majority for re joining will likely be much greater as racist owd buggers die off

Somebody also said that. 
 

Those racist old buggers you would think would be the ones now wanting to rejoin. 

[Not in Crawley]

2 minutes ago, Casino said:

Somebody mentioned 10, 20, 30 years

By then the majority for re joining will likely be much greater as racist owd buggers die off

It will be, as I said - well not the owd racist thing - unless some of these benefits we've been long promised actually start showing themselves.

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

Somebody also said that. 
 

Those racist old buggers you would think would be the ones now wanting to rejoin. 

Out of interest why do you think older people would want to rejoin, when we know that's not the case - well anyone 45 or over?

[Casino]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

 

Those racist old buggers you would think would be the ones now wanting to rejoin. 

Why?

[royal white]

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

There is also taking a point a little literally, you know as well as I do what he is saying is that for the majority of people there have been very few real, tangible benefits - which is why certain people's defence of their support of Brexit seems a little shallow. And if there is only a few people benefitting - other than people shorting the stock market I'm not sure there are many more - surely as a country we have a right to ask, when will it improve for the majority, no?

I’m not seeing many people asking that though. They’re (the people you’d expect to ask) are usually the people  sharing a scaremongering headline from the guardian or a YouTube clip of James o Brien. 
 

 

[royal white]

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

Out of interest why do you think older people would want to rejoin, when we know that's not the case - well anyone 45 or over?

The racist old buggers. 
 

It was a tongue in cheek comment, Have you not seen the amount of darkies crossing the channel? The ones we can’t return because of Brexit? 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

The issue over energy costs is complex and largely unconnected to being in or out of the EU.

We're heavily focusing on developing renewables which will also help with energy security. 

That clearly has a cost implication, so folk still moan. 

Wind (maybe both wind/solar) generated electricity has just dropped in cost below that of fossil fuels, so in time, that positive should filter through. 

Barring any technological breakthrough, I'd think nuclear energy is probably the most likely long-term solution

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

I’m not seeing many people asking that though. They’re (the people you’d expect to ask) are usually the people  sharing a scaremongering headline from the guardian or a YouTube clip of James o Brien. 
 

 

Really? I believe most people on this thread are saying the same thing in different ways - when will Brexit actually show itself to be a good idea?

Anyway - be back but got to go and watch the one show - got my show on it with hopefully a lovely clip of the trailer we produced. Tune in!