Politics

[Sweep]

1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'm not sure it'd particularly be in the interests of the EU to make our re-entry as difficult as possible either

I suspect Starmer will lead us to a BRINO position in any event, but I doubt we'll ever be full members again - which is probably right given the strength of eurosceptic sentiment in the country - particularly as it seems to be less and less of an issue for the younger generations

I agree with this, I see us rejoining the customs union / single market within a few years. I suspect that we'll also open up "freedom of movement" again before this decade is out. We'll be some sort of half in half out member, that still pays some sort of fee

Then, both sides can claim a victory (even though I dislike this "won" and "lost" narrative)

I suspect as the owd thick racists die off and more youngsters come to voting age, there will be more of a swing to us getting closer ties to the EU 😉

[royal white]

6 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I really do understand your point. I can't help but think you won't get an answer on here though. I think you're asking the wrong people

Although, as none of the major parties have released their manifestos yet (as far as I'm aware), you never know, there may be mention of rejoining in there. We'll have to wait a few more months to find out.....

I can see Britain First pulling it out of the bag 😂

[Sweep]

Just another thought, for either Sunak or Starmer (we can forget the other parties really) to say they wanted to rejoin the EU, then they'd have to admit that it's not great having left, and that's based on the deal they voted on and pushed through Parliament. Neither of them have the bollocks to admit they've made a mistake.

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Just another thought, for either Sunak or Starmer (we can forget the other parties really) to say they wanted to rejoin the EU, then they'd have to admit that it's not great having left, and that's based on the deal they voted on and pushed through Parliament. Neither of them have the bollocks to admit they've made a mistake.

The Tories conceived the idea of Brexit and the referendum was facilitated by Cameron because he was weak. It was then delivered very badly by a succession of Tory PMs trying desperately to appease their party. What has Starmer got to do with it?

[Not in Crawley]

28 minutes ago, royal white said:

Which will probably be the same situation in 10/20/30 years time, if that’s the case what are other posters on about saying we will have another ref and us joining the EU will happen? 

Are you going to answer my question, or am I on ignore? 😉

The basic reality is that 73% of remain voters were aged between 18-24, compared with just 40% of people aged over 65. And that has actually increased in the years since, with the over 65's becoming more hardend to leaving the EU, and in the younger voters remain support increases - its up to around 80% of 18-24 year olds.

The real difference is that in 20 years time that generation will be taking the regins of power and they are a remain generation ovrall, the push to rejoin will grow as they do unless of course, in the meantime, these promised benefits start appearing.

For the majority of us on here - 45-54 - leave is slightly ahead in support but it's pretty balanced. That cohort is the first one where leave is ahead of remain - 44 and under remain is significantly ahead.

And this is one of the main reasons no main political party will stand on another referedum vote just yet is that in simple terms, older people are more likely to vote than younger voters, but I've no doubt at all this will change over time given the current numbers.

[Cheese]

27 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not true.

"Evidence" used by both camps to justify their position. 

Usually as a result of narrow focused, selective analysis, and the complete lack of any data to reflect what would be the situation if we'd stayed in- simply because no one knows.

Folk will just read and take in what they want and moan, Instead of just getting on with life.

Should be easy for you to post a positive Brexit outcome then. Go for it.

[Sweep]

16 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

The Tories conceived the idea of Brexit and the referendum was facilitated by Cameron because he was weak. It was then delivered very badly by a succession of Tory PMs trying desperately to appease their party. What has Starmer got to do with it?

It may not have been Starmers idea, but he and his party voted through Johnsons Brexit deal in December 2020. All those who voted through the "deal" that we've got have some level of responsibility.

[Not in Crawley]

Also what's all this 'stop moaning and get on with life' nonsense that gets trotted out when someone says that they think overall Brexit hasn't been proven to be good for the country so far?

Who isn't getting on with life? To question and challenge decisions made is a fundemental cornerstone of being part of a democractic society and if the only defence in your arsenal is basically 'shut up' then, I think you probably need to look at your reasoning, not the other person.

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

It may not have been Starmers idea, but he and his party voted through Johnsons Brexit deal in December 2020. All those who voted through the "deal" that we've got have some level of responsibility.

But you couldn't just have continued the stasis that was really going to damage the country. Also, the public was getting sick to the back teeth with the 'deal' - everyone was keen to draw a line under it and get on with some basic policy work of running the country.

Sadly, it appeared Johnson wasn't very good at that sort of detail work and then they installed an ideologue followed by a technocrat who has no natural feel for actual politics which means he's led by his party, not the other way round.

[DirtySanchez]

51 minutes ago, royal white said:

No I’d say these are our terms now it’s up to you. The people in charge here would then have to read those terms and work out what’s for the best. Unless you’d think it would be different? 

We don't have the terms until we have a general election

Then you think a party should be nailing their terms into a manifesto 

Theres a good chance the talks don't go per the manifesto and we end up either accepting a shitty deal or walking away 

And folk will say that's not what I voted for 

No party at this moment in time is going to do that 

[gonzo]

47 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not true.

"Evidence" used by both camps to justify their position. 

Usually as a result of narrow focused, selective analysis, and the complete lack of any data to reflect what would be the situation if we'd stayed in- simply because no one knows.

Folk will just read and take in what they want and moan, Instead of just getting on with life.

 

Patronising Drivel

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

Patronising Drivel

Shut up and just get on with life!

I mean, to be fair, it was a lot more coherent than that extended gym metaphor.

[Farrelli]

21 minutes ago, Sweep said:

It may not have been Starmers idea, but he and his party voted through Johnsons Brexit deal in December 2020. All those who voted through the "deal" that we've got have some level of responsibility.

The alternative at that stage was no deal which would have been even worse. The Tories have brought us here. Nobody else.

[royal white]

46 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Are you going to answer my question, or am I on ignore? 😉

The basic reality is that 73% of remain voters were aged between 18-24, compared with just 40% of people aged over 65. And that has actually increased in the years since, with the over 65's becoming more hardend to leaving the EU, and in the younger voters remain support increases - its up to around 80% of 18-24 year olds.

The real difference is that in 20 years time that generation will be taking the regins of power and they are a remain generation ovrall, the push to rejoin will grow as they do unless of course, in the meantime, these promised benefits start appearing.

For the majority of us on here - 45-54 - leave is slightly ahead in support but it's pretty balanced. That cohort is the first one where leave is ahead of remain - 44 and under remain is significantly ahead.

And this is one of the main reasons no main political party will stand on another referedum vote just yet is that in simple terms, older people are more likely to vote than younger voters, but I've no doubt at all this will change over time given the current numbers.

I did answer it’s on the previous page. 
 

So I’m guessing you think we will go through all the bullshit that Kent pointed out in a few decades time? 

Or do you think we will stay away from the EU because hopefully, as many have pointed out, things will be (or should be) a lot better in a few years? 
 

 

[Farrelli]

33 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

But you couldn't just have continued the stasis that was really going to damage the country. Also, the public was getting sick to the back teeth with the 'deal' - everyone was keen to draw a line under it and get on with some basic policy work of running the country.

Sadly, it appeared Johnson wasn't very good at that sort of detail work and then they installed an ideologue followed by a technocrat who has no natural feel for actual politics which means he's led by his party, not the other way round.

Exactly right. History should not be re-written as some sort of collective failure to allow the Tories off the hook. It was a shambles all of their own making. Remember posters on here saying the lack of progress was a “negotiating tactic”? Well that went well😄

[royal white]

51 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

We don't have the terms until we have a general election

Then you think a party should be nailing their terms into a manifesto 

Theres a good chance the talks don't go per the manifesto and we end up either accepting a shitty deal or walking away 

And folk will say that's not what I voted for 

No party at this moment in time is going to do that 

We don’t have the terms until we have a party saying they want to rejoin. As I said earlier put it in the manifesto that we will try and negotiate rejoining. 

[Not in Crawley]

11 minutes ago, royal white said:

I did answer it’s on the previous page. 
 

So I’m guessing you think we will go through all the bullshit that Kent pointed out in a few decades time? 

Or do you think we will stay away from the EU because hopefully, as many have pointed out, things will be (or should be) a lot better in a few years? 
 

 

Ah I didn't see, I'll look back. So, given what you've said, do you think its reasonable that people question the outcome of us leaving the EU?

Personally, I still believe turning our back on our largest trading partner was a foolish move and has diminished our standing in the world and a world that is increasingly being divided amongst the superpowers of China and the US. The best place for a country like the UK is to join with our closest partners, rid ourselves of the mythologising of our Special Relationship with the US, which is very one way to ensure we get a seat at that particular table and stop pretending its 1918 and the sun never sets on our Empire. We need to forge a country that doesn't hold onto its past like a comfort blanket and work closely with our partenrs for our benefits. I believe that the EU is the best example of this.

And as for rejoning, I believe it'll be a gradual process. We'll drop certain restrictions and slowly we'll re-enter over a lengthly period, before putting the the question of rejoining the EU to the public which at that stage will actually be pretty minimal decision.

The EU isn't going anywhere, and without disavowing ourselves of certain notions of ourselves as a country, neither will we.

[Spider]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not true.

"Evidence" used by both camps to justify their position. 

Usually as a result of narrow focused, selective analysis, and the complete lack of any data to reflect what would be the situation if we'd stayed in- simply because no one knows.

Folk will just read and take in what they want and moan, Instead of just getting on with life.

 

If someone came and took a load of your customers away, but replaced them with a new cover for your passport and a “Keep Calm and Carry On” poster with a picture of a spitfire in the background, would you just take it?

Would you fuck. You’d bleat like a trapped lamb.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, Farrelli said:

The alternative at that stage was no deal which would have been even worse. The Tories have brought us here. Nobody else.

Let's not forget there was a great deal of obstruction in the vain hope of stalling for a second referendum too

[London Wanderer]

You know he’s having one of those days when everyone who disagrees with him is either a ‘spaz’ or a ‘nonce’. That’ll get your point across 😁

 

[DazBob]

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Imagine you had a gym membership that cost you £50.

Then you had the opportunity to explore a load more that weren't there before.

Some may be shit, others not so. Some may be cheaper, others not so.

Imagine if that gym membership also restricted you to not being able to use someone else's gym at the same time, if it was better or cheaper.

Or maybe even put restrictions on your ability to set your own up.

And just Imagine that your membership fee is significantly more than someone else's, even if you do get a bit back, and that other members get extra benefits that you don't get, unfairly making them fitter at your expense.

Just Imagine. 

Imagine leaving your gym because you thought there were too many darkies joining.

Imagine you decided to leave because you'd been promised a super, new gym that was miles betterer.

Imagine going to that new gym and finding out there were more darkies in there and the equipment was shitter.

[Not in Crawley]

11 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Let's not forget there was a great deal of obstruction in the vain hope of stalling for a second referendum too

Hold on there bald eagle - that's a more than slightly misreading what happened - true there was a push by the unions for Labour to back a second ref, which was really about getting Corybn elected so that they could push through a Labour Brexit Deal - which was pretty similar to the one Johnson had - rather than a Conservative one. It wasn't really about getting us back into the EU.

Which again is all the more astonishing how Starmer has changed the party in such a short space of time

[Mounts Kipper]

Tears more tears and tantrums! 🤣🇬🇧

Edited May 15, 2024 by Mounts Kipper

[Not in Crawley]

Who is having a tantrum? I'm just reading through concerns that certain people have.

As I say, if the only counter arguement is either shut up, or we won, then it's probably time to question your position as it doesn't really seem that strong.

If you have something actually valid to say to counter people's concerns, I'm sure that people would like to hear them.

Otherwise you come across as not only childish, but that you didn't really understand what you voted for and what the outcome so far has been.

[Jol_BWFC]

3 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Imagine you had a gym membership that cost you £50.

Then you had the opportunity to explore a load more that weren't there before.

Some may be shit, others not so. Some may be cheaper, others not so.

Imagine if that gym membership also restricted you to not being able to use someone else's gym at the same time, if it was better or cheaper.

Or maybe even put restrictions on your ability to set your own up.

And just Imagine that your membership fee is significantly more than someone else's, even if you do get a bit back, and that other members get extra benefits that you don't get, unfairly making them fitter at your expense.

Just Imagine. 

Imagine half your mates saying your current gym membership is actually a pretty good deal, but you decide to change your gym membership anyway, ignoring their advice (and that of gym industry experts).

You realise that actually the best deal was the gym membership you had and that you should have stuck with the £50 a month deal.

Your realise your mates were right all along, but you don’t want to admit it so you tell them “I won, you lost” and you look for the positives - like the fact that your new gym has treadmills that works in yards rather than meters and the towels are blue, not maroon; and Jacob Rees Mogg wanks you off in the showers.