Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 24, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted January 24, 2018 Me and you both! Minus the death(s), obvs. I see that about the hostesses but they are being asked to dress in a provocative manner - hardly a massive leap to see what will happen. Not condoning any groping but I'd bet a fair few took some 'tips' and offered a special arrangement . . . As long as no-ones forced to do anything they don't want, leave em to it. All just a big power trip for sad middle aged men, really. I agree generally, though the investigator was claiming not all the women knew what was going to happen. She did say in her interview if women wanted to be a hostess knowing what would happen then that's their choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 She didn’t have to concentrate more on her family than her career, she chose that path Her partner is in the same industry and at a similar level, shared paternity was on the table but she wanted to have the time with the child. She can work 5 days a week and her husband can do 3 but she wants it the other way My company pay the same for paternity leave as they do maternity yet my wife only let me have 6 weeks as she wanted the rest of it. She is also pushing to go to 4 days a week after baby 2 It’s likely that her career won’t go as far due to the fact she will only work for 80% of the time that some of her colleagues will, she will certainly earn 20% less at the beginning These are all choices, they arent forced on women Ok read that again. Then place it in the context of human history. Yes it might be her individual choice and that is fine, but the choice between childcare and career is just not something most men (including myself) ever factor into their life plan. For women NOT to seems strange. Freedom of choice is also about the context in which that choice is exercised. Vastly more women do the vast majority of childcare (its their nature innit - vaginas n that - which incidentally means sheath if you're talking about who has power over language and control) men need to do more and saying 'it's their choice' isn't good enough - there needs to be a more concentrated effort to divide this time - to make sure women do feel like there are only two choices available to them. That's the sort of choices that people are fighting for. But as I say - people round here have got a handle on what it's like to be a women in 2018. What I see is the world is still tipped in favour of me - of men, and more specifically white, middle aged, white men. I'm not sure we'll agree on this, and it seems like its getting a bit circular - what I can say with confidence is that things are thankfully changing - not far and as fast as I'd personally like - but as I said earlier this debate seems more open, and permeating deeper areas of society than it has in my lifetime certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 What I can say with confidence is that things are thankfully changing - not far and as fast as I'd personally like Be careful what you wish for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Ha ha - I used to love that. Diana Dors wasn't it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madthatter Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Ok read that again. Then place it in the context of human history. Yes it might be her individual choice and that is fine, but the choice between childcare and career is just not something most men (including myself) ever factor into their life plan. For women NOT to seems strange. Freedom of choice is also about the context in which that choice is exercised. Vastly more women do the vast majority of childcare (its their nature innit - vaginas n that - which incidentally means sheath if you're talking about who has power over language and control) men need to do more and saying 'it's their choice' isn't good enough - there needs to be a more concentrated effort to divide this time - to make sure women do feel like there are only two choices available to them. That's the sort of choices that people are fighting for. But as I say - people round here have got a handle on what it's like to be a women in 2018. What I see is the world is still tipped in favour of me - of men, and more specifically white, middle aged, white men. I'm not sure we'll agree on this, and it seems like its getting a bit circular - what I can say with confidence is that things are thankfully changing - not far and as fast as I'd personally like - but as I said earlier this debate seems more open, and permeating deeper areas of society than it has in my lifetime certainly. I reckon if you made the world as you want it and all things re. careers, childcare etc were 'equal' you'd still find more women want to look after their young than males; and you'd find a society not far off ours. In Norway (iirc) they push gender neutrality more than any other nation in youth. Studies show that as adults the very same folk are more likely to chose traditional gender roles than in a nation as backwards as ours. Go figure?! (I'd link to it if I could) If you had to put your little one in the hands of a carer (hypothetically) and you had a blind choice between male or female which would you instinctively choose? Be honest now - no intellectual pondering - gut, basic instinct. Edited January 24, 2018 by madthatter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 These 'upmarket' sex clubs, knocking shops etc. the only difference between them and low rent shitholes is the spunk and sweat soaked stuff you're rawling about on costs more... I've also heard they 'stack' the deck with brasses. Finally, I presume it's johnnybags (or doses) all round. Nah, I can live without it as a life experience. I bet they're more like the scene in Sexy Beast than Eyes Wide Shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I reckon if you made the word as you want it and all things re. careers, childcare etc were 'equal' you'd still find more women want to look after their young than males; and you'd find a society not far off ours. In Norway (iirc) they push gender neutrality more than any other nation in youth. Studies show that as adults the very same folk are more likely to chose traditional gender roles than in a nation as backwards as ours. Go figure?! (I'd link to it if I could) If you had to put your little one in the hands of a carer (hypothetically) and you had a blind choice between male or female which would you instinctively choose? Be honest now - no intellectual pondering - gut, basic instinct. That’s one of the daftest and asinine questions ever posed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 That’s one of the daftest and asinine questions ever posed. but what's the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 A women/girl obvs...purely for the Rita, Sue and Bob Too-esque sexual harassment opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 but what's the answer? Not one you can make. Literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 A women/girl obvs...purely for the Rita, Sue and Bob Too-esque sexual harassment opportunities. Careful - you might to be asked to unpack that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madthatter Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 That’s one of the daftest and asinine questions ever posed. It's really not in the context of the discussion and your post. I could ask a woman the same question (and have) and most, being honest, would say a woman. You can argue socialisation, patriarchy and all that but the instinct is still there in a way it isn't in men. (I'm your ideal man by the way - work part time to help rear children, have taken up a traditionally female vocation and even make the tea - doesn't stop me seeing the obvious, I'm just a bit gay ) That's why more women than men have made, and will continue to make, the choice Birch outlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madthatter Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Not one you can make. Literally. eh? You just write: man or woman. Only one though! Anyway, I think you just did, in a roundabout way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 24, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted January 24, 2018 It's really not in the context of the discussion and your post. I could ask a woman the same question (and have) and most, being honest, would say a woman. You can argue socialisation, patriarchy and all that but the instinct is still there in a way it isn't in men. (I'm your ideal man by the way - work part time to help rear children, have taken up a traditionally female vocation and even make the tea - doesn't stop me seeing the obvious, I'm just a bit gay ) That's why more women than men have made, and will continue to make, the choice Birch outlines. Quite. I gave up at his comment "men need to do more..." I'm happy enough in my skin with my attitudes towards women. A patronising Crawley isn't going to change that; in fact I wonder how he sleeps at night in that hair shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Ok read that again. Then place it in the context of human history. Yes it might be her individual choice and that is fine, but the choice between childcare and career is just not something most men (including myself) ever factor into their life plan. For women NOT to seems strange. Freedom of choice is also about the context in which that choice is exercised. Vastly more women do the vast majority of childcare (its their nature innit - vaginas n that - which incidentally means sheath if you're talking about who has power over language and control) men need to do more and saying 'it's their choice' isn't good enough - there needs to be a more concentrated effort to divide this time - to make sure women do feel like there are only two choices available to them. That's the sort of choices that people are fighting for. But as I say - people round here have got a handle on what it's like to be a women in 2018. What I see is the world is still tipped in favour of me - of men, and more specifically white, middle aged, white men. I'm not sure we'll agree on this, and it seems like its getting a bit circular - what I can say with confidence is that things are thankfully changing - not far and as fast as I'd personally like - but as I said earlier this debate seems more open, and permeating deeper areas of society than it has in my lifetime certainly. I think your looking at it too negatively In all honesty if you offered me the choice between earning more in my career or alternatively spending less time at work and more time at home with the family then I would choose to do the latter Unfortunately that’s what my wife wants as well and she goes through pregnancy so she decides. I suppose we could both take 9 months off then go back 4 days a week so it’s fair which would be amazing but we can’t really afford that. If there's any money spare then she would want 3 days and me 5 than us both on 4. You see the fact that the average women earns less than the average man across a lifetime as a bad thing for women. I see it as an indication that they have spent less time in work and more time with their children which I think is a huge positive for women. After all the majority of people only really work because they have to and not because they want to. On the other hand most people have children because they want to not because they have to. Edited January 24, 2018 by birch-chorley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madthatter Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I think your looking at it too negatively In all honesty if you offered me the choice between earning more in my career or alternatively spending less time at work and more time at home with the family then I would choose to do the latter Unfortunately that’s what my wife wants as well and she goes through pregnancy so she decides. I suppose we could both take 9 months off then go back 4 days a week so it’s fair which would be amazing but we can’t really afford that. If there's any money spare then she would want 3 days and me 5 than us both on 4. You see the fact that the average women earns less than the average man across a lifetime as a bad thing for women. I see it as an indication that they have spent less time in work and more time with their children which I think is a huge positive for women. After all the majority of people only really work because they have to and not because they want to. On the other hand most people have children because they want to not because they have to. Well put. The main reason I'm going part-time is due to circumstances and that my Mrs makes more £. She's 'better' at it than me but I love the time I spend with my little lad. It's also, despite what anyone says, easier and more rewarding than my day job - well, mostly. She has compromised and does 4 longer days to have one off. Both working like this is killing us at the minute. I do think the first few months to a year are very important, and ensuring a healthy attachment between baby and mother is so important for emotional and later social development (she took 9 months maternity). That's something that is purely natural. Can a Dad do it? Aye, but not as well, generally. Edited January 25, 2018 by madthatter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted January 25, 2018 Moderators Share Posted January 25, 2018 I think your looking at it too negatively In all honesty if you offered me the choice between earning more in my career or alternatively spending less time at work and more time at home with the family then I would choose to do the latter Unfortunately that’s what my wife wants as well and she goes through pregnancy so she decides. I suppose we could both take 9 months off then go back 4 days a week so it’s fair which would be amazing but we can’t really afford that. If there's any money spare then she would want 3 days and me 5 than us both on 4. You see the fact that the average women earns less than the average man across a lifetime as a bad thing for women. I see it as an indication that they have spent less time in work and more time with their children which I think is a huge positive for women. After all the majority of people only really work because they have to and not because they want to. On the other hand most people have children because they want to not because they have to. thats extremely selfish of her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted January 25, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2018 Quite. I gave up at his comment "men need to do more..." I'm happy enough in my skin with my attitudes towards women. A patronising Crawley isn't going to change that; in fact I wonder how he sleeps at night in that hair shirt. Must be torture being stuck in a middle aged, white mans body when you'd much prefer to be a woman. Maybe he is saving up for the op? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madthatter Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Must be torture being stuck in a middle aged, white mans body when you'd much prefer to be a black, lesbian woman. Maybe he is saving up for the op? efa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 25, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted January 25, 2018 Must be torture being stuck in a middle aged, white mans body when you'd much prefer to be a woman. Maybe he is saving up for the op? In fairness, its done on the NHS. My Mrs has a relative who went through the change from man to woman. An example of just how understanding society is; I'll not be thrashing myself with branches as penance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 In fairness, its done on the NHS. My Mrs has a relative who went through the change from man to woman. An example of just how understanding society is; I'll not be thrashing myself with branches as penance. Was it her uncle or her aunt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Owning a pair of tits as well as a wanger is all the rage now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madthatter Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I think your looking at it too negatively In all honesty if you offered me the choice between earning more in my career or alternatively spending less time at work and more time at home with the family then I would choose to do the latter Unfortunately that’s what my wife wants as well and she goes through pregnancy so she decides. I suppose we could both take 9 months off then go back 4 days a week so it’s fair which would be amazing but we can’t really afford that. If there's any money spare then she would want 3 days and me 5 than us both on 4. You see the fact that the average women earns less than the average man across a lifetime as a bad thing for women. I see it as an indication that they have spent less time in work and more time with their children which I think is a huge positive for women. After all the majority of people only really work because they have to and not because they want to. On the other hand most people have children because they want to not because they have to. Bang on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 25, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted January 25, 2018 Was it her uncle or her aunt? Both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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