birch-chorley Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) One is preventing the money that OUGHT to be in the coffers from going in the pot. One is taking out of the pot which OUGHT not to be going out. The benefit cheat are often the poorest in society, the tax avoiders often the richest. I know which I'd be throwing most money at in order to prevent the pot diminishing but I'm not sure the Government would throw their money at the same end of society. It’s a popular misconception that we employ more benefit fraud inspectors than tax inspectors. In fact we employ thousands more tax inspectors than we do benefit fraud inspectors. It’s another huge lie by the left to make folk think the system is rigged against the lower end of society when in reality we live in a system that’s as fair as anywhere else on the planet A link with data FYI... http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/04/13/pmqs-factcheck-does-the-dwp-employ-ten-times-as-many-fraud-i Edited November 7, 2017 by birch-chorley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted November 7, 2017 Site Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2017 those who are squeaky clean though, they have valid moans when it comes to these tax loopholes I've always been a PAYE tax payer. Never had a chance to avoid paying tax when it's due. I don't think in 40 years of working I've ever had a R after my tax amount on my wage slip. I live in hope though. Would I try and pay less tax if that option was available to me? Hell yes! Do I bemoan the millionaires when they try to pay less? Hell yes again! The thing is, if I avoided or evaded the tax man it'd be 20% of fuck all. These multi million pound individuals or corporations are avoiding 40% of a hell of a lot. Regarding overseas earnings, my plan would be that if you earn money abroad you'd pay their taxes, if you earn it here you'd pay our taxes. What we have at the minute is UK money made from UK purchases being taxed at overseas rates and our govt. seeing none of it. That can't be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyldesley_white Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Also remember those "Tax loopholes" as you call them, may net big company's millions but also stop small businesses going to the wall, and that is the problem they have with changing the tax rules , you may get a bit more money out say the likes of BP but could force 100's small company's out of business , its like a pyramid BP at he top and at the bottom 100' of not 1000's of small family run company's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Pensions are different though. You'll pay income tax on it later on if your pension is large enough. Everyone should pay income tax once government allowances are accounted for. As stated elsewhere close the 'legal' loopholes that are clearly allowing folk to avoid paying it. I save at 40% relief and plan to release at 20% so i do gain but i do get your point. I believe Mr Hammond will be closing that advantage for higher rate tax payers later this month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 People seem to have an idea that there is an army of self employed sole traders or small businesses that are basically rolling in money and paying no tax. I know that is why I started to doing it but it really is nothing like that. Just lots of red tape and tax bills ok if be VAT or Corp Tax but the tax is still there. Anyone who thinks tax avoidance or minimising tax has anything to do with paying money into a pension is totally missing the point. These days everyone pays into a pension and the tax breaks work for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I save at 40% relief and plan to release at 20% so i do gain but i do get your point. I believe Mr Hammond will be closing that advantage for higher rate tax payers later this month It’s goodnight Vienna if he does that Swathes of Tory votes gone in a flash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) I save at 40% relief and plan to release at 20% so i do gain but i do get your point. I believe Mr Hammond will be closing that advantage for higher rate tax payers later this monthNo chance he closes that one. They need more people to save more as value if state pension will start to drop. Also if you mean your company pays it in then it the 19% Corp Tax that is being saved. Edited November 7, 2017 by Ani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites man Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I never thought a Tory chancellor would go after buy to let investors but he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 People seem to have an idea that there is an army of self employed sole traders or small businesses that are basically rolling in money and paying no tax. I know that is why I started to doing it but it really is nothing like that. Just lots of red tape and tax bills ok if be VAT or Corp Tax but the tax is still there. Anyone who thinks tax avoidance or minimising tax has anything to do with paying money into a pension is totally missing the point. These days everyone pays into a pension and the tax breaks work for everyone. Not an army but a huge number all the same In value terms the ONS data I’ve seen shows a bigger tax gap through illegal tax evasion than it does through these loopholes, so in real terms it’s a bigger problem, yet public opinion seems solely focussed on 1 side of the coin I work for a big corporate and it’s the job of our tax team to be as efficient as possible to maximise the profits that go to our shareholders, as long as it’s all legal and above board of course Most of us would do the same if it was our own company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) Not an army but a huge number all the same In value terms the ONS data I’ve seen shows a bigger tax gap through illegal tax evasion than it does through these loopholes, so in real terms it’s a bigger problem, yet public opinion seems solely focussed on 1 side of the coin I work for a big corporate and it’s the job of our tax team to be as efficient as possible to maximise the profits that go to our shareholders, as long as it’s all legal and above board of course Most of us would do the same if it was our own company There could be I imagine be a dig difference between sole traders who get paid in cash than those who take all payments through the bank as I do. Edited November 7, 2017 by Ani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyldesley_white Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Ani , yes there is ... they are avoiding paying tax ( illegal) you are using the tax laws that are set out for you to minimize your tax (legal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted November 7, 2017 Site Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2017 I save at 40% relief and plan to release at 20% so i do gain but i do get your point. I believe Mr Hammond will be closing that advantage for higher rate tax payers later this month You tax dodger you! How does it work with lump sums on retirement; are they taxable, and if they are, would you pay the forty percent if it was large enough? Any road, I reckon your forty percent relief and twenty percent release is fair enough. Larger pensions mean more money for older folk to spend, with vat at 20% they're still getting some back and presumably there'd be some "benefits" you wouldn't be entitled to either. Either way enjoy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) . I believe Mr Hammond will be closing that advantage for higher rate tax payers later this month Birch likes this Edited November 7, 2017 by Sweep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 You tax dodger you! How does it work with lump sums on retirement; are they taxable, and if they are, would you pay the forty percent if it was large enough? Any road, I reckon your forty percent relief and twenty percent release is fair enough. Larger pensions mean more money for older folk to spend, with vat at 20% they're still getting some back and presumably there'd be some "benefits" you wouldn't be entitled to either. Either way enjoy it! You can take a lump sum of the value currently 25% tax free the rest is taxable unless you reinvest into an annuity. The annuity then pays an income which is subject to usual tax rules so about £10 k per annum tax free than normal rate up to £44k and high rate on the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted November 7, 2017 Site Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2017 Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 It’s goodnight Vienna if he does that Swathes of Tory votes gone in a flash Kerfuckinching And wrong, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 You tax dodger you! How does it work with lump sums on retirement; are they taxable, and if they are, would you pay the forty percent if it was large enough? Any road, I reckon your forty percent relief and twenty percent release is fair enough. Larger pensions mean more money for older folk to spend, with vat at 20% they're still getting some back and presumably there'd be some "benefits" you wouldn't be entitled to either. Either way enjoy it! I feel like the unwashed now ???? 25% of your pot is tax free and you have a choice of a guaranteed annuity or the more flexible option of taking what you need but you will pay tax at the marginal rate that applies to your income that year. I plan to take the 25% straight away and leave the residual in the pot and let it grow taking out monies up to the 40% threshold should I need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I feel like the unwashed now 25% of your pot is tax free and you have a choice of a guaranteed annuity or the more flexible option of taking what you need but you will pay tax at the marginal rate that applies to your income that year. I plan to take the 25% straight away and leave the residual in the pot and let it grow taking out monies up to the 40% threshold should I need it. I think if you reinvest the whole lot you can keep your tax free allowance. So say you have £400k. You invest it all and you are entitled to £100 k tax free but you can draw that down gradually so you get your tax free allowance every year then you gradually drawdown your tax free bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I think if you reinvest the whole lot you can keep your tax free allowance. So say you have £400k. You invest it all and you are entitled to £100 k tax free but you can draw that down gradually so you get your tax free allowance every year then you gradually drawdown your tax free bit. I have income from elsewhere so not quite the same for me but my colleague at work is using that method I think. There is a lot more flexibility around pensions these days thank goodness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I spend as little time in the UK as I can Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Me too.Me too. I'm assuming your cellar isn't in the UK then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traf Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Me too. I'm assuming your cellar isn't in the UK then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) Hang the cunts. Edited November 8, 2017 by Youri McAnespie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I don't think you realise actually hard it is to hide £50,000 as a small business. We've had the discussion a million times before but it's not the free for all you seem to think it is. You can't just not pay tax. If it was all that simple the whole world would be a self employed plumber. Exactly. None of our clients ever pay us in cash. So everything gets declared. Nowhere to hide. The odd loophole of paying family members in dividends is legit and above board (as far as I've always been informed). Pushing a few things through expenses is quite minimal. Its peanuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) Exactly. None of our clients ever pay us in cash. So everything gets declared. Nowhere to hide. The odd loophole of paying family members in dividends is legit and above board (as far as I've always been informed). Pushing a few things through expenses is quite minimal. Its peanuts.Peanuts indeed but added up across 3m+ SME’s in this country it drives a bigger tax gap for the treasury than a few dozen big corporates avoiding tax, so technically it’s a bigger issue. Yet the focus is on one area constantly whilst the other area doesn’t get a mention As far as I am aware non of these big companies are breaking the law, they are playing by the rules to be as tax efficient as possible. Just like we would all do with our own personal finances or if instead we ran a business I don’t get the witch hunt against big business, it’s relentless, yet millions of us rely on them to support ourselves and our families Edited November 8, 2017 by birch-chorley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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