Marc505 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 23 minutes ago, Morizio said: I’m not that much clued up on this stuff, so planes for air support being used for dogfighting? Hasn’t the numerical superior Russian Air Force not yet obliterated the opposition? If not how comes? Some of the types Russia will be using for ground attack will also be more than suitable for air to air as well, roughly along the lines of what our Typhoon, or US Strike Eagles, F-16 or F-18 can do but I think many of their losses are from surface to air missiles rather than Ukrainian air force. UAF isn't completely out of the picture yet which is one of the most striking things about this war, but we see things from a western point of view where we put huge weight onto what our aircraft can do and try to gain air superiority as quickly as possible, but seems like Russian doctrine isn't quite the same. I also think Ukrainian air force is chosing their battles a bit rather than wading into everything. Actual air to air combat is quite rare these days, from a total geek point of view it would be great to see some gun camera footage from any engagements after all this is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer1984 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 43 minutes ago, Cheese said: It was mentioned that they might do something like that before it all kicked off to give a reason for invasion. Makes no sense for them to do it now, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morizio Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 16 minutes ago, Marc505 said: Some of the types Russia will be using for ground attack will also be more than suitable for air to air as well, roughly along the lines of what our Typhoon, or US Strike Eagles, F-16 or F-18 can do but I think many of their losses are from surface to air missiles rather than Ukrainian air force. UAF isn't completely out of the picture yet which is one of the most striking things about this war, but we see things from a western point of view where we put huge weight onto what our aircraft can do and try to gain air superiority as quickly as possible, but seems like Russian doctrine isn't quite the same. I also think Ukrainian air force is chosing their battles a bit rather than wading into everything. Actual air to air combat is quite rare these days, from a total geek point of view it would be great to see some gun camera footage from any engagements after all this is done. Thank you for the explanation, I find it the be informative. So the Russian doctrine doesn’t involve locating the opposition airbases and annihilating them? I would have thought this would be the primary objective. Unless they were important to secure is as good a condition as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 5, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2022 One for the equipment chaps. Good thread this, and highlights the fact that folk rattle on about cost, never mentioning the fact they all still need a human to operate them who costs…nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Just been down a rabbit hole of Russia and The Soviets history including their involvement in Zimbabwe and The Rhohedisan Bush War etc. Quite a piece of work aren't they over the course of history. Theres not a chance in hell theyve got in to this without knowing they've got Chinas backing if the shit hits the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 5, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 5, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, gonzo said: Just been down a rabbit hole of Russia and The Soviets history including their involvement in Zimbabwe and The Rhohedisan Bush War etc. Quite a piece of work aren't they over the course of history. Theres not a chance in hell theyve got in to this without knowing they've got Chinas backing if the shit hits the fan. That’s probably a bigger deterrent than the nuclear weapons in some ways. If it’s assumed Putin won’t push the button, having the worlds second biggest army and economy behind him isn’t a bad backup. The west seem to struggle at times to understand that Soviets just have a different mentality. They’re used to hardship and the long haul. Just hoping his army is as shite as it seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 5, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2022 2 hours ago, wanderer1984 said: Talk of an explosion/missile fire in the Russian city of Belgorod which isn't far Kharkiv. Was it put on here the other day about the Russians attacking there own then blaming it on Ukraine? Might have seen it somewhere else. Just seen the clip. I've wondered if the ukranian forces might have a do at something in Russia given half a chance- maybe capture a Russian missile system or something. Probably isn't though, but it would give Putin something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, gonzo said: Just been down a rabbit hole of Russia and The Soviets history including their involvement in Zimbabwe and The Rhohedisan Bush War etc. Quite a piece of work aren't they over the course of history. Theres not a chance in hell theyve got in to this without knowing they've got Chinas backing if the shit hits the fan. It's not a rabbit hole, it's essential to understand post war politics. But people don't, and they don't read books because it's boring, and they know everything anyway, dulled by the post war consensus and the colonial narrative we love as a nation. All the while, we elect leaders who know this and give us the story we want to hear, rather than the hard truth because it keeps them in the status quo (sans denim jackets) I'm constantly surprised that people are surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 5, 2022 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Spider said: That’s probably a bigger deterrent than the nuclear weapons in some ways. If it’s assumed Putin won’t push the button, having the worlds second biggest army and economy behind him isn’t a bad backup. The west seem to struggle at times to understand that Soviets just have a different mentality. They’re used to hardship and the long haul. Just hoping his army is as shite as it seems to be. Given half a chance the Russian people would be happy with democracy and freedom. Might take a while to remove the kleptocrat attitudes and general mistrust, but all the former soviet nations now free seem to be managing it. The mentality is only different because of many decades of oppression etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Given half a chance the Russian people would be happy with democracy and freedom. Might take a while to remove the kleptocrat attitudes and general mistrust, but all the former soviet nations now free seem to be managing it. The mentality is only different because of many decades of oppression etc. Arrogant to speak for the entire Russian nation, is it not? But then, that's the sort of attitude in the west which leads to this type of comment, which allows Eastern distrust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morizio Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: It's not a rabbit hole, it's essential to understand post war politics. But people don't, and they don't read books because it's boring, and they know everything anyway, dulled by the post war consensus and the colonial narrative we love as a nation. All the while, we elect leaders who know this and give us the story we want to hear, rather than the hard truth because it keeps them in the status quo (sans denim jackets) I'm constantly surprised that people are surprised. Essential to you but if that particular area of knowledge doesn’t pattern match with the hosts brain, then it’s not going to be an area that is digested easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer1984 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 32 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: It's not a rabbit hole, it's essential to understand post war politics. But people don't, and they don't read books because it's boring, and they know everything anyway, dulled by the post war consensus and the colonial narrative we love as a nation. All the while, we elect leaders who know this and give us the story we want to hear, rather than the hard truth because it keeps them in the status quo (sans denim jackets) I'm constantly surprised that people are surprised. By reading your books what do you know about the current situation in Ukraine that people who don't read books know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 minute ago, wanderer1984 said: By reading your books what do you know about the current situation in Ukraine that people who don't read books know? I know that that's not the question you ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobyBrno Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 30 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: Arrogant to speak for the entire Russian nation, is it not? But then, that's the sort of attitude in the west which leads to this type of comment, which allows Eastern distrust. Is it not Arrogant to speak for the whole of the west? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc505 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 49 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: That's one for me to watch later on when I get back from getting leathered round London Bridge 😃 Only seen F-35 in the flesh a couple of times and its surprisingly so loud, louder than the types it's replacing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 minute ago, BobyBrno said: Is it not Arrogant to speak for the whole of the west? I'm not. Maybe you misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer1984 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said: I know that that's not the question you ask. So nothing then. People are allowed to think differently and make their own judgement you know. Even if reading the same books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Just now, wanderer1984 said: So nothing then. People are allowed to think differently and make their own judgement you know. Even if reading the same books. That's not what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 51 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: It's not a rabbit hole, it's essential to understand post war politics. But people don't, and they don't read books because it's boring, and they know everything anyway, dulled by the post war consensus and the colonial narrative we love as a nation. All the while, we elect leaders who know this and give us the story we want to hear, rather than the hard truth because it keeps them in the status quo (sans denim jackets) I'm constantly surprised that people are surprised. That's as may be. But I bet you couldn't tell me what happened in book three of the Horus Heresy could you? 😁 In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimron Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, Marc505 said: That's one for me to watch later on when I get back from getting leathered round London Bridge 😃 Only seen F-35 in the flesh a couple of times and its surprisingly so loud, louder than the types it's replacing! In my opinion, when it comes to QRA the Lightning met all the requirements. We really need more low tech fighters like the Sea Harrier, the A4 Skyhawk was a good one, swarm the enemy like a pack of mosquitoes and reduce the risk rather than put all your eggs in one fifty million quid basket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, kent_white said: That's as may be. But I bet you couldn't tell me what happened in book three of the Horus Heresy could you? 😁 In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. Waaaarrrhammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said: Waaaarrrhammer Warhammer 40K thank you very much! 😘 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer1984 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Marc505 said: If confirmed, these lot have had a seriously bad day in the air last 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobyBrno Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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