Paul Massey Shot Dead.

[tyldesley_white]

True enough.

 

You know what it does feature? Legally held, easy to get hold of weapons.

 

Illegal weapons are difficult to get hold of and expensive as fuck. Stands to reason the more expensive and more difficult to get hold of, then the less likely they will fall into the hands of a utter fucking fruitloop. Now there's nowt to stop said fruitloop going to a school armed with a samurai sword, but rather that than  a machine gun.

Just out of curiosity where do you think the gun came from that was used to shot Paul Massey ?

[mickbrown]

Just out of curiosity where do you think the gun came from that was used to shot Paul Massey ?

 

We're not comparing like with like.

 

My point is that nutjobs like the Sandy Hook fella, the Columbine kids, the Port Arthur bloke couldn't just rock up in a pub somewhere and get hold of an automatic rifle and 500 bullets on the black market

 

I'm a reasonably intelligent, reasonably eloquant sort of bloke. I wouldn't know where to get my hands on a gun. Would I just rock up at a pub in Ordsell and start talking about 'shooters' with the first dodgy looking fecker I see at the bar? Ain't gonna work is it?

 

Now imagine some screwed up teenager who hasn't left his bedroom in 3 years trying it. 

 

You seen the Sandy Hook lad?

 

 

 

Down in some dingy boozer trying to sort out a gun? Like fuck.

Edited July 28, 2015 by mickbrown

[Whites man]

It's opinions Ginger, not right and wrong.

[jules_darby]

I posted a link to a youtube vid of some Aussie comic basically taking the piss out the Yanks but making some really good points

 

He said that kid that did the Sandy Hook school had an automatic weapon that he bought from Walmart for a $1000.

 

He said if you wanted that in Australia you'd have to buy it on the blackmarket and it would cost you over 30,000 Australian dollars. He also pointed put the likelihood of a kid with evident social problems being able to operate in such a black market was pretty non existent.

Was brilliant that video

 

Can't remember his name though

[mickbrown]

Was brilliant that video

 

Can't remember his name though

 

Jim Jefferies

[DazBob]

It's opinions Ginger, not right and wrong.

Let's not let that get in the way of him piping off a Leyther though.

[tyldesley_white]

 

 

 

Down in some dingy boozer trying to sort out a gun? Like fuck.

We're not comparing like with like.

 

My point is that nutjobs like the Sandy Hook fella, the Columbine kids, the Port Arthur bloke couldn't just rock up in a pub somewhere and get hold of an automatic rifle and 500 bullets on the black market

 

I'm a reasonably intelligent, reasonably eloquant sort of bloke. I wouldn't know where to get my hands on a gun. Would I just rock up at a pub in Ordsell and start talking about 'shooters' with the first dodgy looking fecker I see at the bar? Ain't gonna work is it?

 

Now imagine some screwed up teenager who hasn't left his bedroom in 3 years trying it. 

 

You seen the Sandy Hook lad?

 

 

 

Down in some dingy boozer trying to sort out a gun? Like fuck.

and again I will ask where do you think the gun came from, you are also not comparing like with like, in the US (whether you like it or not guns are legal, now not so much in the UK

 

This from 2010 from the BBC

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/10220974http://www.bbc.com/news/10220974

 

Guns that were held legally

Edited July 28, 2015 by tyldesley_white

[gonzo]

I'll put my cock on the block here and say the none of you can hold a candle to Maggie in a row about artillery.

 

He's simply correct

That means fuck all.

 

In fact I think it's exactly the opposite.

 

He thinks its fucking normal to walk around with an Ak47 in your underpants.

[mickbrown]

 

 

 

 

Down in some dingy boozer trying to sort out a gun? Like fuck.

and again I will ask where do you think the gun came from, you are also not comparing like with like, in the US (whether you like it or not guns are legal, now not so much in the UK

 

This from 2010 from the BBC

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/10220974http://www.bbc.com/news/10220974

 

Guns that were held legally

 

 

The black market - obviously. I'm not denying it exists

 

And your link? Just proves the point I'm making. 

 

We all have our mentalists - but why make it easy for the feckers?

 

That shit is happening every couple of months in America.

[jules_darby]

Jim Jefferies

Thanks Mick

 

Regarding the 2nd amendment, this is interesting

 

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/second-amendment-guns-michael-waldman

[Traf]

I'll put my cock on the block here and say the none of you can hold a candle to Maggie in a row about artillery.

 

He's simply correct

 

Knowledge of guns is not knowledge of culture and how to deal with the problem those beloved guns cause.

 

Somebody going off the rails will buy a gun if they're easily available.

If they're illegal and carry a premuim, most folk "just losing the plot" wouldn't be able to get one.

 

Banning them won't solve the issue, but it can't make it worse.

[Spider]

I'll be clearer

 

The yanks are fucking hypocrites when it comes to firearms. Hiding behind an amendment from 200 years ago is fucking pathetic when you consider they put so much effort into telling the rest of the world how to behave.

 

And you lot clearly know fucking nowt if you can't tell the difference between ginger and strawberry blond so your opinions aren't worth a wipe of my arse.

 

I do like Leythers though. In a "visiting the zoo" kind of way.

 

Wankers

[Youri McAnespie]

Stricter gun control isn't likely to happen, so concentrating on this is arguably making the situation worse if gun control lobbying is to the detriment of other preventitive measures i.e. stopping kids turning into hate-filled mental cases in the first place.

[Maggie Tate]

My point is that nutjobs like the Sandy Hook fella, the Columbine kids, the Port Arthur bloke couldn't just rock up in a pub somewhere and get hold of an automatic rifle and 500 bullets on the black market

 

 

I suspect they might have been the types to get one within half a dozen clicks on the dark web nowadays. Plus ca change. The Columbine killers by the way bought theirs from unlicensed sellers, ie illegally.

 

I'm a reasonably intelligent, reasonably eloquant sort of bloke. I wouldn't know where to get my hands on a gun. Would I just rock up at a pub in Ordsell and start talking about 'shooters' with the first dodgy looking fecker I see at the bar? Ain't gonna work is it?

 

 

I doubt you'd be kept waiting for more than half an hour in some places. I'm only joking a bit.

 

That means fuck all.

 

In fact I think it's exactly the opposite. 

 

He thinks its fucking normal to walk around with an Ak47 in your underpants. 

 

 

I'm glad to see that my posts inspire such high level thinking as this.

 

If they're illegal and carry a premuim, most folk "just losing the plot" wouldn't be able to get one

 

 

Have you anything even remotely approaching evidence for this? Even before things like the internet there were Panoramas and Cook Report showing that even in Britain with barely any gun culture at all outside London, Manchester, Birmingham and Belfast it's about as hard to get a gun as it is to get dressed. 

 

Banning them won't solve the issue, but it can't make it worse.

 

 

And where do you draw the line with that? Mountain climbing? Playing cricket? Driving? Horse racing? Because all of those are much more dangerous than an inanimate object locked in a cabinet. Apart from one or two minor tweaks the existing laws need to be enforced properly. New laws are not necessary. And if you consider ordinary people having their legally held property confiscated by government and being left without defence against actual, you know, criminals, with illegal guns as not making things worse then that's up to you I suppose.

[SnoopJohnnyJohn]

I suspect they might have been the types to get one within half a dozen clicks on the dark web nowadays. Plus ca change. The Columbine killers by the way bought theirs from unlicensed sellers, ie illegally.

 

 

I doubt you'd be kept waiting for more than half an hour in some places. I'm only joking a bit.

 

 

I'm glad to see that my posts inspire such high level thinking as this.

 

 

Have you anything even remotely approaching evidence for this? Even before things like the internet there were Panoramas and Cook Report showing that even in Britain with barely any gun culture at all outside London, Manchester, Birmingham and Belfast it's about as hard to get a gun as it is to get dressed. 

 

 

And where do you draw the line with that? Mountain climbing? Playing cricket? Driving? Horse racing? Because all of those are much more dangerous than an inanimate object locked in a cabinet. Apart from one or two minor tweaks the existing laws need to be enforced properly. New laws are not necessary. And if you consider ordinary people having their legally held property confiscated by government and being left without defence against actual, you know, criminals, with illegal guns as not making things worse then that's up to you I suppose.

 

Refreshing to see a well-informed opinion on this subject.

 

Well played, sir(?).

[mickbrown]

 

 

Have you anything even remotely approaching evidence for this? Even before things like the internet there were Panoramas and Cook Report showing that even in Britain with barely any gun culture at all outside London, Manchester, Birmingham and Belfast it's about as hard to get a gun as it is to get dressed. 

 

 

I keep banging on about Australia as that's a place where they had guns and they introduced stricter controls.

 

A senate committee there reported last year that it costs on average $15000 to buy a handgun on the black market. Pretty much a premium I'd say.

[Maggie Tate]

I keep banging on about Australia as that's a place where they had guns and they introduced stricter controls.

 

A senate committee there reported last year that it costs on average $15000 to buy a handgun on the black market. Pretty much a premium I'd say.

 

And yet the murder rate is on the same trajectory as it was before the ban. It made no difference. £200 in London I gathe

[gonzo]

Only those in specific circles can purchase a gun in this country.

 

Some weirdo in his bedroom simply can't go online a buy a gun in this country.

 

That's why we don't have mass shootings. If you could, we would.

 

I knew a lad with connections in Manchester that had a gun. He died in an unrelated incident. The police operation to track that gun was absolutely ridiculous. They had everyone that ever knew the lad in for questioning to find the whereabouts of the firearm,including his parents,work colleagues and extended family.

 

A 6 week+ operation over one gun. They eventually tracked it to a storage unit in Preston.

[mickbrown]

And yet the murder rate is on the same trajectory as it was before the ban. It made no difference. £200 in London I gathe

But no US style rampages. A good thing no?

[Maggie Tate]

But no US style rampages. A good thing no?

 

The Tasmania one was the first of its kind there. The New Zealand or Vermont examples I gave, where the same weapons are legal but there have been no rampages either, is proof that the legal status of guns is irrelevant.

[mickbrown]

The Tasmania one was the first of its kind there. The New Zealand or Vermont examples I gave, where the same weapons are legal but there have been no rampages either, is proof that the legal status of guns is irrelevant.

 

It was the biggest certainly wasn't the first. In the 10 years before there were 10 similar, smaller mass murders.

 

 

Did the laws have an effect?

 

"So what have the Australian laws actually done for homicide and suicide rates? Howard cites a study (pdf) byAndrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness."

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/

 

 

[Zico]

and innocent members of the public unable to defend themselves. Don't forget them.

 

I haven't

 

legal or not, gangsters and that will get hold of guns and still shoot each other, and i'm happy to leave them to it, i dare say there wasn't an innocent member of the public walking his dog by paul massey's house who would've been in a better off situation had they been armed

 

but the next time some yank pulls out his gun in the middle of a cinema, let's hope 10 others in there can whip out their pistols and have a pop back in the sake of public interest, because that will end well i'm sure

[Zico]

I'll put my cock on the block here and say the none of you can hold a candle to Maggie in a row about artillery.

 

He's simply correct

 

some used to say that about garp, that he was in a better place to argue footy because he spent all day watching matches and setting odds

 

then he said higuain was better than messi

[kent_white]

Drove past his house this morning on the way to Uni. Still 3 police vans and coppers with dogs outside.

[Maggie Tate]

Only those in specific circles can purchase a gun in this country.

 

Some weirdo in his bedroom simply can't go online a buy a gun in this country.

 

That's why we don't have mass shootings. If you could, we would.

 

 

We don't have them as there is no gun culture to speak of. Aspects of America's culture mean they do have these incidents. That is what they need to sort. Making guns unavailable to ordinary folk, or taking them off them and leaving them defenceless is not going to help. Banning them and getting rid of them are not the same thing. Yes a weirdo in his bedroom can go on the internet and get one. A professional IT gimp in the office upstairs from mine reckons it could be done in about an hour on the dark web by anyone with middling IT skills.  

 

"So what have the Australian laws actually done for homicide and suicide rates? Howard cites a study (pdf) byAndrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness."

 

 

This is the trajectory they were on anyway. There are other studies which suggest that the ban had no effect at all irrespective of the overall number or rate of incidents. Even your own quote says the evidence is circumstantial.  It does not say quite what you would like it to. There is no consensus at all.

 

And how about other crimes which are easier to carry out if victims have no possibility of being armed? Rape? Robbery? Can it be doubted that the prevalence of sex crime in any country you care to name would plummet if women were mandated to carry a firearm? Not that I'm recommending such a course of action but this goes much deeper than the number of rampage killings going from one to none. And staying at none, by the way, in New Zealand and Vermont, where the laws are the most liberal in the world and yet they're not murdering each other. Whereas they are in large numbers in Louisiana, say, or Maryland where the laws are much tighter. Demanding a ban or confiscation is missing the point completely and penalises the wrong people. Why should the responsible gun owners of Vermont or New Zealand, who are no danger to anybody, have to give up their arms because of the crimes of drug gangs in Baltimore or a one-off maniac in Tasmania? There is literally no drawing the line if you're going to ban inanimate objects based on their misuse by someone. Cars? Knives? Baseball bats? Dogs?