Politics

[Farrelli]

55 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

A different example

parliament delegated the vote to the people 

 

You know the rest

David Cameron = parliament.

That's an interesting way to look at it🤔

[Tonge moor green jacket]

3 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Yes i did because I still believe he doesn’t want to leave with this deal and expects it to get beat albeit closely and then look for the GE and no deal when he wins that. 

But if the deal does get through then at least he’s managed to deliver that for me 

there are plenty of other people in the HoC that should be utterly ashamed with themselves to a much greater extent than Boris in my opinion. 

Can't agree Boris wants a no deal situation.

If he stands on that, then he'd have to do a deal with Farage. Even then, plenty of folk may feel let down by his change. One huge gamble.

I think he would use the deal within his manifesto: the only party willing to go with a deal.

They've just been speaking to folk in Barnsley. Staunch labour voters, all saying they want their labour MPs to take the deal.

Despite momentum saying they want to throw out any MPs voting for the deal, these same people will be aware that their seat could be at risk if leave is delayed.

[birch-chorley]

5 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Yes i did because I still believe he doesn’t want to leave with this deal and expects it to get beat albeit closely and then look for the GE and no deal when he wins that. 

But if the deal does get through then at least he’s managed to deliver that for me 

there are plenty of other people in the HoC that should be utterly ashamed with themselves to a much greater extent than Boris in my opinion. 

Given the fact that Boris actually prefers us being in the EU (as per the second letter he wrote)

I’d say no other politician in the house has put themselves before country more than Boris throughout this whole process 

Lowest of the low by far for me, duplicitous wanker 

 

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, birch-chorley said:

Given the fact that Boris actually prefers us being in the EU (as per the second letter he wrote)

I’d say no other politician in the house has put themselves before country more than Boris throughout this whole process 

Lowest of the low by far for me, duplicitous wanker 

 

And as anyone is you are entitled to your opinion

Personally whilst I wouldn’t trust Boris as far as I could throw him I would certainly prefer him to lead my country than Corbyn or for that matter jimmy krankie who is the pure epitome of a self serving scumbag. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I’m intrigued. Which part of what Corbyn has done has played to the party members desires?

ive listened intently this week to a number of not only Party members but also Labour MPs past and present who sing a very different tune about mr Corbyn and what he’s been doing. 

Before he had seen the new WA that had been agreed he stated that he would vote against it. Can you explain to me how that is a) correct and proper and b) how that fits with the desire of the party members. 

i am for once genuinely interested so please 

 

Labour party members want them to be a remain party unambiguously. They voted for the party to support a second referendum.

Yes Corbyn fudged the position by saying they'd initially stay neutral during said referendum to try and not alienate some of his "lets do a Brexit deal" MPs - but in effect he has eventually and slowly given into their membership's position - even though the membership wanted him to say "2nd ref and campaign to remain". 

As for voting for a Brexit deal the 500,000 odd Labour members - about 90% want the party to oppose a deal and push for a second referendum. So he's carrying out what the membership wants.

 

[Escobarp]

Just now, bwfcfan5 said:

Labour party members want them to be a remain party unambiguously. They voted for the party to support a second referendum.

Yes Corbyn fudged the position by saying they'd initially stay neutral during said referendum to try and not alienate some of his "lets do a Brexit deal" MPs - but in effect he has eventually and slowly given into their membership's position - even though the membership wanted him to say "2nd ref and campaign to remain". 

As for voting for a Brexit deal the 500,000 odd Labour members - about 90% want the party to oppose a deal and push for a second referendum. So he's carrying out what the membership wants.

 

So correct me if im wrong. A vote was undertaken and he is duty bound as leader to effect the result of that vote? He is expected to carry out the wishes of the majority of people who voted am I correct in my understanding?

[Spider]

tell you what

we know how to keep an argument going, we do.

[Guest]

Just now, Escobarp said:

So correct me if im wrong. A vote was undertaken and he is duty bound as leader to effect the result of that vote? He is expected to carry out the wishes of the majority of people who voted am I correct in my understanding?

He's not duty bound. A party motion was passed. But as leader he can ignore the wishes of membership if he wants (Blair did) - but he wants to try and appease both the small group of parliamentary MPs and his membership and unions in a single position. 

Its a pointless argument to try and keep banging on about there having been a vote and people should respect it. I've already shown why an MP might not do so - given the economic implications for their constituents. But even then MPs do what they think is right for their constituents - they do not necessarily and almost certainly mostly will not reflect their individual majority constituent views. 

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Spider said:

tell you what

we know how to keep an argument going, we do.

This one won't finish till we're all 6 feet under! 

[birch-chorley]

4 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

And as anyone is you are entitled to your opinion

Personally whilst I wouldn’t trust Boris as far as I could throw him I would certainly prefer him to lead my country than Corbyn or for that matter jimmy krankie who is the pure epitome of a self serving scumbag. 

I’m no fan of Crobyn, quite the opposite,

Doesn't mean I’d want Boris anywhere near running the country

I wouldn’t vote for Boris no matter who was in charge of the opposite 

Perhaps I just hate populist wankers, which both of the above are 

P.s Let’s not pretend he ‘changed his mind’, he wrote two letters and picked the one he thought would work out better for himself (rather than the country). As a remainer, I’d rather have a hard line Brexiteer in charge, at least someone who actually believes In all this 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, birch-chorley said:

I’m no fan of Crobyn, quite the opposite,

Doesn't mean I’d want Boris anywhere near running the country

I wouldn’t vote for Boris no matter who was in charge of the opposite 

Perhaps I just hate populist wankers, which both of the above are 

P.s Let’s not pretend he ‘changed his mind’, he wrote two letters and picked the one he thought would work out better for himself (rather than the country). As a remainer, I’d rather have a hard line Brexiteer in charge, at least someone who actually believes In all this 

This. I wouldn't vote for Corbyn or Boris. And its amazing how people seem to think that if you even question Brexit you're a Corbyn supporter. Both Boris and Corbyn are a product of the times as you say. Populist swings to the extremes. Boris has manipulated his own position, Corbyn just got lucky.

But neither are fit to lead the country and I think its pretty disingenuous of anyone to say Boris is "less despicable". Corbyn is hapless and a joke. But Boris is more sinister - more dangerous. 

 

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Spider said:

tell you what

we know how to keep an argument going, we do.

In what way?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

John Mann just given a really good interview littered with total common sense.

[frank_spencer]

Just think if Ed Milliband could eat a bacon butty properly we wouldn't be in this mess.

[kent_white]

18 minutes ago, Spider said:

tell you what

we know how to keep an argument going, we do.

No we don't

[Escobarp]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1185175331348590592?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1185175331348590592&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Flive%2Fuk-politics-50094274

 

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

This. I wouldn't vote for Corbyn or Boris. And its amazing how people seem to think that if you even question Brexit you're a Corbyn supporter. Both Boris and Corbyn are a product of the times as you say. Populist swings to the extremes. Boris has manipulated his own position, Corbyn just got lucky.

But neither are fit to lead the country and I think its pretty disingenuous of anyone to say Boris is "less despicable". Corbyn is hapless and a joke. But Boris is more sinister - more dangerous. 

 

 

Corbyn; totally agree, a useless cretin

Boris; my jury’s out, but so far so good

As ever, these things are about opinions

Edited October 18, 2019 by boltondiver
Wank typing

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Corbyn; totally agree, a useless cretin

Boris; my jury’s out, but so far so good

As ever, these things are about opinions

Or typing whilst wanking!!

on the John mann comments. He was asked about workers rights and labour's line that they are not being protected etc.

He simply said, we should have the ability to improve workers rights as required. The idea that a government would look to worsen them was daft; voters would quickly remove from office any government that sought to remove holidays etc from workers.

I'm paraphrasing there, but it was common sense. Finally.

[Cheese]

11 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Corbyn; totally agree, a useless cretin

Boris; my jury’s out, but so far so good

As ever, these things are about opinions

What do you like the most that Johnson has done so far? 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

What do you like the most that Johnson has done so far? 

Most?

difficult to differentiate, really

[MickyD]

4 hours ago, Cheese said:

Anybody who attempts to answer that is just guessing.

You say that as though it hasn't been the case for 1074 other pages of guesswork and conjecture.

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, MickyD said:

You say that as though it hasn't been the case for 1074 other pages of guesswork and conjecture.

I do.

[MickyD]

You shouldn't.

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Most?

difficult to differentiate, really

Ok, give an example then.

[MickyD]

Because this entire thread is all guesswork and conjecture