What is that "mate" of mine Sadiq Khan trying to achieve ?

 

You lost you demented little cretin, get over it and concentrate on your job you terrorist sympathiser.

That's pretty much the situation.

 

I know some people on here had May down as the new Thatcher, but clearly she's not, and she's week as piss. Whilst she isn't doing the negotiation, she isn't putting forward a good image, it's almost laughable, I feel a bit sorry for her, as nothing she does is right. She needs to go, and the sooner the better

 

You have Davis as the  main negotiator, and people thought he would be great, he's looking weaker and weaker by the day

 

Boris is milling around on the periphery, and he clearly has his eyes on the top job. He changes his thoughts like the wind, he'll do whatever it takes to get that top job

 

 

The Conservative Party seem to be in a huge mess. It is incredible that so long after the vote, we don't seem to have done much at all. 

 

We seem, very quickly, to have gone from a "We hold all the cards" and "Leaving will be straight forward and done quickly" situation to the exact opposite.

 

Hopefully common sense will prevail, but this is politicians that we're talking about...............

 

I agree.

 

 

 

The Conservative party just seem to be a party of reaction to me at the moment and piss poor reactions at that. What are they actually about?

What are they actually about?

Strong and stable leadership!

I'm assuming the "stumbling block" at present is this divorce bill. Have we actually been given a figure yet? 

 

I've heard various numbers between 20Bn Euro and 100Bn Euro  -  I've also heard various opinions on what we should or shouldn't pay.

 

Until the UK and the EU can settle on a final number, then I guess we'll be at a bit of an impass. I think May ade it clear in her Florence speach that she would rather not go down the "no deal" route, so hopefully she has a bit of an idea of what she/we need to do

 

I do still have a concern that we won't actually leave....and we won't actually be in either. Some horrific halfway house that costs us money, and gives us little or no say at all

Strong and stable leadership!

 

With May it does look like rigor mortis has set in. They might be right with that one.

I'm assuming the "stumbling block" at present is this divorce bill. Have we actually been given a figure yet? 

 

I've heard various numbers between 20Bn Euro and 100Bn Euro  -  I've also heard various opinions on what we should or shouldn't pay.

 

Until the UK and the EU can settle on a final number, then I guess we'll be at a bit of an impass. I think May ade it clear in her Florence speach that she would rather not go down the "no deal" route, so hopefully she has a bit of an idea of what she/we need to do

 

I do still have a concern that we won't actually leave....and we won't actually be in either. Some horrific halfway house that costs us money, and gives us little or no say at all

There are two aspects to the divorce bill. One being the EU deciding what the cost of leaving is. The other being us deciding which programs we still want to contribute to, and to what extent. Because make no mistake, we still want to be part of the EU research programs and regional development funds etc.... 

 

It shouldn't be that hard to sort out. 

Surely out means out? Not piecemeal.

 Because make no mistake, we still want to be part of the EU research programs and regional development funds etc.... 

 

 

 

 

Surely out means out? Not piecemeal.

 

 

We want to cherry pick the good bits, and get rid of the bits we don't want.........I can't see why the EU would have a problem with that 

 

They'll soon realise they need us a lot more than we need them (apparently)

Then blame the negotiators when it all goes tits up, obvs.

Then blame the negotiators when it all goes tits up, obvs.

 

There has been some pieces written about how much the Brexit supporters have acquired an almost quasi faith style system to ensure that the tenets of what they want, despite any evidence to the contrary, is allow to dominate the debate with no room for dissent or disagreement.

 

They have a belief that leaving the EU will unshackle the UK and allow the country to go an a semi historical quest for trade deals, which we could have had anyway. Failure to achieve this will not be down to global markets, or indeed the UK itself but it'll be the EU bureaucrats or unsupportive MPs and in fact the more you point out the issues that keep arising, the more this foghorn of faith is blasted around. 

 

It's in evidence here - the demonising of the heretical 'remoaners', the black or white win/lose of the vote, the inability to back up any failings of Brexit with actual difficulties that are not attributed to the EU itself. Actually, any discussion against Brexit, however moderate, seems to fuel the propaganda of this belief.

 

We do live in very interesting times, liberal democracy itself is being questioned here, the danger is the increasing removal of facts from any and all parts of public debate. I do fear that the current government really have not displayed any form of overall strategy, or do they seem to be able to convey a believable narrative to the British public, and in this vacuum bubbles up this tribalistic split on a difficult and complex situation that requires subtlety and compromise on both parts.

 

Not blind devotion to any cause regardless of the outcome.

So, deal or no deal?

 

 

3 ways we might gain financially from Brexit;

 

1. Save on payments to the EU

2. Escape their protectionist trade policies; which could result in a reduction in import costs

3. We can set our own regulations

 

All of these will not happen in a transitional phase, so we could be better off with "no deal"

1 we will still give money to the EU ... See Norway

2 lower import but may be higher export costs, there fore loss of jobs

3 what Regulations do you want us to set (because whatever we export will have to conform to EU regulations)

So, deal or no deal?

 

 

3 ways we might gain financially from Brexit;

 

1. Save on payments to the EU

2. Escape their protectionist trade policies; which could result in a reduction in import costs

3. We can set our own regulations

 

All of these will not happen in a transitional phase, so we could be better off with "no deal"

So you believe Trump is not a protectionist then and other countries will not be the same, just look at what happened with Bombardier? We are not going to be handed trade deals that favour the UK. Our potential trade partners will know that we will be in a weak position and will negotiate a hard bargain. It suprises me that some people still think that this will be a breeze. We cannot afford to walk away with no deal with our biggest trade partner.

1 we will still give money to the EU ... See Norway

2 lower import but may be higher export costs, there fore loss of jobs

3 what Regulations do you want us to set (because whatever we export will have to conform to EU regulations)

 

Don't think so, here's a read up

 

https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/IEA-Brexit-Unit-note-on-no-deal.pdf

So you believe Trump is not a protectionist then and other countries will not be the same, just look at what happened with Bombardier? We are not going to be handed trade deals that favour the UK. Our potential trade partners will know that we will be in a weak position and will negotiate a hard bargain. It suprises me that some people still think that this will be a breeze. We cannot afford to walk away with no deal with our biggest trade partner.

 

I don't think I've ever said it will be a breeze. I do think that juncker and others want to punish us for leaving their bureaucracy and I do think that we have to authentically hold open a "no deal" possibility against their bullying tactics.

 

I do think that all will be better off with a deal, but not be stiffed by them.

I’m interested in what you think their bullying tactics are. Again it’s like Brexit klaxon Groundhog Day at times.

Imagine the boot was on the other foot and say France were trying to leave the EU.

 

Our brexiteers would screaming from the rooftops at juncker to stick the boot in and fuck em off.

Imagine the boot was on the other foot and say France were trying to leave the EU.

 

Our brexiteers would screaming from the rooftops at juncker to stick the boot in and fuck em off.

Wouldn't the Brexiteers be supporting the French and asking why we couldn't do it?

I’m interested in what you think their bullying tactics are. Again it’s like Brexit klaxon Groundhog Day at times.

Well, demanding that we have to get those 3 things settled before we have trade talks

 

Constantly saying publicly that we haven't done enough

 

Coming out in advance of negotiations with amountsvthst we would owe on leaving

 

Just a few examples

 

Feel free to put people down, it seems to be the chosen way of some of those who want to remain.

Imagine the boot was on the other foot and say France were trying to leave the EU.

Our brexiteers would screaming from the rooftops at juncker to stick the boot in and fuck em off.

Would you be doing likewise- like chucking your yolk at them.

 

Whichever way you view it, we can all make 'critical observations' of the opposing standpoint.

Just cockwaving really.

Its what the country makes of the situation in the forthcoming years that I'm interested to see.

Imagine the boot was on the other foot and say France were trying to leave the EU.

 

Our brexiteers would screaming from the rooftops at juncker to stick the boot in and fuck em off.

I was just going to post that exact point

In March this year 2017 Parliament, that's all our MP's, voted 498 to 114 to trigger Article 50 to allow the British Goverment to leave the European Union, that's what the current Government are trying to negotiate

 

The EU led by Mr Barnier are trying to negotiate the best deal for the 27 remaining countries, as we are paying approx £250mill a WEEK into the pot you can see why they are willing to use any tactic they can to prevent us leaving, it's not because they love us so much, it's not to prevent WW3, it's not because the worry about our standard of living, it's because the people at the very top of the EU who hold the real power need our £250mill a week to achieve their stated aims of a Federal state with its own Army and Currency etc.

 

David Davies is indeed trying to 'cherry pick' the best of what the EU has to offer, free trade, free movement ( not free immigration) and also trying to recover the net contribution of £160mill a week we give away for nothing, if you live in the U.K. surely the best outcome for this country is what matters most?

The reality is that the EU cannot guarantee any deal that they negotiate as his has to be approved within the time limit by so many parliaments.

 

Remember that Merkel is still acting in a caretaker capacity until at least Wednesday, when her coalition talks resume. It still could be that the condition of support is that she steps down.

 

Until the EU has a definite line from the German government they are simply posing.

 

Merkel may be tough but at least she will be decisive (eventually). A novice German Chancellor combined with Macron is not very appealing.

 

It is difficult to believe that Ireland, Denmark and Sweden will maintain a unity with Hungary, Slovakia and Estonia.

It's all just a mess, the talk from all sides is of the 'least worst option'

 

I'm not quite sure what the up side is meant to be or when anyone will see it (if they ever will)

It's all just a mess, the talk from all sides is of the 'least worst option'

 

I'm not quite sure what the up side is meant to be or when anyone will see it (if they ever will)

Relax as I've said from day one there will be a deal done.

Relax as I've said from day one there will be a deal done.

 

Thank fuck for that. Relax everyone. Ignore reality. Just pretend everything's fine.