tomski Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Spider said: This is what I don't understand Anyone who will pay £15million (which I think is your suggested price) is suitable as far as you're concerned? This same buyer would have baulked at the £25million asking price you say is still on the table (no actual proof)? This would suggest to me that we are not dealing with the exceptionally wealthy parties everyone seems to imagine are sniffing around the club. No-one buys a football club to make money or because it's a sound business acquistion. If you don't beleive me, try asking Ken Anderson. I expect he will agree. The reality is that this would be like buying a fiver for a tenner. It's senseless. We need maniacs, not savvy business types. Please tell me you are not referring to ken as a savvy business type haha ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: I am pleased the players will get paid on Friday but let us not think Ken is paying out of the goodness of his own heart. He will take it back out when cash flow allows and he is paying the players on Friday as otherwise players would be able to walk away from their contract. I hope Ken now reduces his asking price to sell the club and re-doubles his efforts to find a suitable buyer. Agree on all of this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted December 12, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted December 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, tomski said: Please tell me you are not referring to ken as a savvy business type haha ? It's fairly obvious that I'm not. He's a former football agent who probably thought running a club would be a doddle. Plainly forgetting that he's been on the other side of the fence for most of his life. He's out of his depth, but unless someone turns up with bottomless pockets, it will always be the same. We fork out more than we take. Eventually, that stops. It's dead simple. Most clubs even in the championship are back by billionaires, and they still won't be troubling the champions league any time soon. We need to reset our ambitions for now. Start again, and hope a backer with proper money and a proper plan is mental enough to get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Spider said: It's fairly obvious that I'm not. He's a former football agent who probably thought running a club would be a doddle. Plainly forgetting that he's been on the other side of the fence for most of his life. He's out of his depth, but unless someone turns up with bottomless pockets, it will always be the same. We fork out more than we take. Eventually, that stops. It's dead simple. Most clubs even in the championship are back by billionaires, and they still won't be troubling the champions league any time soon. We need to reset our ambitions for now. Start again, and hope a backer with proper money and a proper plan is mental enough to get involved. I’d debate it’s fairly obvious but furry muff. I agree with your last post completely. Hes an administrator well out of his depth I fear. Edited December 12, 2018 by tomski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc505 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Spider said: It's fairly obvious that I'm not. He's a former football agent who probably thought running a club would be a doddle. Plainly forgetting that he's been on the other side of the fence for most of his life. He's out of his depth, but unless someone turns up with bottomless pockets, it will always be the same. We fork out more than we take. Eventually, that stops. It's dead simple. Most clubs even in the championship are back by billionaires, and they still won't be troubling the champions league any time soon. We need to reset our ambitions for now. Start again, and hope a backer with proper money and a proper plan is mental enough to get involved. I agree with this part especially. Ken would probably argue that's what he's been doing in terms of downsizing. Do the resetting of ambitions put us on a par with someone like Doncaster though? Competitive, but with a natural level of League 1? I'd take that if I knew we were striving to become more in time, within our means, but I think it wouldn't suffice for a lot of our supporters particularly younger ones. There'd have to be an effective campaign of education and expectation management otherwise we'd just be in conflict all the time, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_spencer Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 A few years in mid table obscurity in league 1 playing decent football would do wonders for morale at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted December 12, 2018 Moderators Share Posted December 12, 2018 aye, all very well saying we need to reset out ambitions if we're in league one, we are trying to get out of it if we're in the championship, we're trying to stay in it if we don't, we're back in league one trying to get out of it and we might have to do it with lower paid, lower quality players as each season passes - and in turn, gates are going down, unless we're challenging, then they may stay the same, bar the opportunity for a pitch invasion unless by reset you mean changing it to trying to stay in league one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, tomski said: Please tell me you are not referring to ken as a savvy business type haha ? I think he's savvy. Ignore all the hype and hysteria on Twitter and such places and just examine what he has achieved. He's taken on a financial basket case of a club (with a questionable partner with no money of his own who set up the ridiculous BM loan set against club assets) and for over two years basically singlehandedly not only kept us going with his act of smoke and mirrors (and according to his many, many detractors not putting any money of his own in the club for long) but also brought in management and players to keep us relatively competitive over that time (yes I know we are struggling but we are a long way from going down yet) and up to now avoid a knock out blow from the many (HMRC, Heathcote, Front Row Marketing) Winders (just for Cassie's amusement) thrown at him - and even continues to have the managers and players not at all really throwing their toys out of their pram over non payment of wages and bonuses! Takes a very clever man to be able to do all that whilst apparently at the same time (according to the various nutjobs) pocketing over half a million pounds a year to add to his millions he's got already! I wish I was that savvy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birch-chorley Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Without additional funding then we are probably about league 1 now as so many teams that would traditionally be smaller than us have significant additional money from a wealthy backer, unfortunate but true We need to start living within our means so we can avoid this constant cycle of winding up orders and deferred payments. In honesty though, I thought that’s what Ken had been doing for some time now. Can’t be many legacy contracts left from the old regime, these must all be his own work so if we have cash flow problems then it’s because he’s over committed the club. On that basis I think it’s fair enough to ask questions of him, he’s no longer dealing with someone else’s mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, Sluffy said: I think he's savvy. Ignore all the hype and hysteria on Twitter and such places and just examine what he has achieved. He's taken on a financial basket case of a club (with a questionable partner with no money of his own who set up the ridiculous BM loan set against club assets) and for over two years basically singlehandedly not only kept us going with his act of smoke and mirrors (and according to his many, many detractors not putting any money of his own in the club for long) but also brought in management and players to keep us relatively competitive over that time (yes I know we are struggling but we are a long way from going down yet) and up to now avoid a knock out blow from the many (HMRC, Heathcote, Front Row Marketing) Winders (just for Cassie's amusement) thrown at him - and even continues to have the managers and players not at all really throwing their toys out of their pram over non payment of wages and bonuses! Takes a very clever man to be able to do all that whilst apparently at the same time (according to the various nutjobs) pocketing over half a million pounds a year to add to his millions he's got already! I wish I was that savvy! I couldn’t disagree more on savvy. IMO he’s a chancer! Why didn’t he pay this earlier if he could? What was savvy about that? Again for me, depends how you look at it but we are in the same place as when he took us on hurtling towards league 1. Agree on his questionable partner. But how did they find each other? You do have to wonder. He has dealt with the above agreements other than the first row one, we can agree on that. But he seems to have one way of doing this and that’s offer less than his/clubs obligations. For a very clever man he hasn’t engaged with the Bolton public well, he is losing fans arse over fist according to himself. I think it’s less but the amount of people who I know are losing patience is really gutting. i can’t see how he saves this. I hope he does obviously. In response to taking over a basket case we still are. I fail to see how this changes. we will never agree on this but happy to discuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted December 12, 2018 Moderators Share Posted December 12, 2018 if he was savvy I don't think he would've just had to have paid the players out of his own pocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffer cup 07 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Its the team displays that's losing us fans not Anderson. If the team was doing well nobody would give a dam what Anderson was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, tomski said: Please tell me you are not referring to ken as a savvy business type haha ? The mans a millionaire tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Egg Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 He's savvy by comparison to our last chairman who agreed half these lunatic deals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, tomski said: I couldn’t disagree more on savvy. IMO he’s a chancer! Why didn’t he pay this earlier if he could? What was savvy about that? Again for me, depends how you look at it but we are in the same place as when he took us on hurtling towards league 1. Agree on his questionable partner. But how did they find each other? You do have to wonder. He has dealt with the above agreements other than the first row one, we can agree on that. But he seems to have one way of doing this and that’s offer less than his/clubs obligations. For a very clever man he hasn’t engaged with the Bolton public well, he is losing fans arse over fist according to himself. I think it’s less but the amount of people who I know are losing patience is really gutting. i can’t see how he saves this. I hope he does obviously. In response to taking over a basket case we still are. I fail to see how this changes. we will never agree on this but happy to discuss If you look back on my posts on this thread you will find that I said that it was inconceivable that the clubs main creditors (Moonshift, James and Warburton) wouldn't have been informed by KA about the cash flow shortfall for the November wages and thus there must have been a reason why they allowed it to have happened. They being the major creditors of the club have most to lose if it fell into Administration - so that obviously wasn't the plan. I can only think the non payment of the wages was allowed to go ahead to show to one and all that finances are bad and real and the pleas for people to put money into the club by way of attending games, buying shirts, etc are genuine. Although KA announced HE is paying the wages on Friday that doesn't necessarily mean he had that amount of money to pay them in November, nor anytime since, nor it's even his own money - it could be Moonshift or James helping out short term simply until the cash flow is there again - which I would guess is much nearer the mark anyway. As for offering less than the full asking price - wouldn't anybody - I know I do. We can even see from the links to documentation at Companies House (credit it to 'Ten Bob' for finding them) that BM were after £8 million for settlement of their loan and eventually settled for under £5 million - would you have preferred for KA to have paid the £8 million in the first place and not haggle? I know we won't agree about this next point but I truly believe that the way Iles (with his mates at the ST) has gone about reporting issues on the club - particularly financial ones - have been totally unnecessary on occasions and deliberately inflammatory at times - particularly his by means of his own personal social media accounts. If he had built up a far better rapport with KA from the beginning he would have had a better 'informal' line of communications as to what is going on within the club and been able to be provide more balanced reporting than what he has chosen to do - and it is his (and the ST's) media 'doom-mongering' that has directly built up to the growing amount of anti-Anderson feeling particularly in the social media. His clear agenda against Anderson - only today Traf pulled him up on a tweet he made in that respect - is (deliberately or not?) turning the crowd against him. Iles is there to report the news not to shit stir on twitter to those who know even less about the situation than he does. KA or any future owner without wanting to throw their money down a black hole, can only turn things around by getting to a point where the club is financially sustainable and eventually in a position to pay off its creditors. At the end of this season we eventually lose the £800,000pa wages of Amos - and if we do manage to stay up (with the £6 million we will have more from the EFL than if we didn't) finally arrive at that position. Only then can we begin to pay back our creditors which amount to something like £25 million (although Moonshift may well write down a large amount owing to them). I'm happy to discuss too. Edited December 12, 2018 by Sluffy spelling errors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Stop being entrenched sluffy and just hate the man like everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted December 12, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted December 12, 2018 He sold the sleeves to pay wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radcliffe white Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, Mr Grey said: If Sweaty Ken was Savvy, he wouldn't have took the club on in the first place, he's a proper chancer who has tried to make a quick buck on the club and it hasn't happened as quick as he thought, although now it probably won't happen at all. Someone stated in an earlier post, 'Ken is rich (9m apparently), but he's not rich enough to run a football club', and that's where i'm at, unfortunately from my point of view his chequered past at Southampton doesn't give me any confidence in his dealings at all. Not everyone is going to be of the same opinion, but unfortunately for Ken at this moment in time, he seems to be chasing himself and it's all going tits up! No surprise really, the guy wears a f*****g TANK TOP! Pretty much my thoughts hindsight the only club he should of bought is some old snooker club are tank tops not fashionable in Wigan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 37 minutes ago, Mr Grey said: If Sweaty Ken was Savvy, he wouldn't have took the club on in the first place, he's a proper chancer who has tried to make a quick buck on the club and it hasn't happened as quick as he thought, although now it probably won't happen at all. Someone stated in an earlier post, 'Ken is rich (9m apparently), but he's not rich enough to run a football club', and that's where i'm at, unfortunately from my point of view his chequered past at Southampton doesn't give me any confidence in his dealings at all. Not everyone is going to be of the same opinion, but unfortunately for Ken at this moment in time, he seems to be chasing himself and it's all going tits up! No surprise really, the guy wears a f*****g TANK TOP! Would you rather us have been made insolvent? Or would you rather still be in league? Or would you still like our outgoings and debt to be quadruple than when he took over? Or would you like him to pull £100m out of his arse so we can lose £44k a day like Nottingham Forest do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffer cup 07 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 It's easy to slag Anderson off for being a chancer and not having enough money, but people need to wake up and realise he's the reason wev'e still got a club to support. Like i said earlier if the team weren't under achieving and were higher up the league no one would bother about Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, gonzo said: The mans a millionaire tom. More than one way to skin a cat mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, gonzo said: Would you rather us have been made insolvent? Or would you rather still be in league? Or would you still like our outgoings and debt to be quadruple than when he took over? Or would you like him to pull £100m out of his arse so we can lose £44k a day like Nottingham Forest do? Truthfully. I’d take the last option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mr Grey said: Comments were about Sweaty Ken than 'would you rather be's' As stated before i am more concerned with matters on the pitch, but unfortunately our chairman, the ST and the local egotistical bald journo have decided to all have a scrap between themselves. But KA’s dealings have seen us progress on the pitch though. Whether you like the style of play is a totally different matter. Like has been said above, play decent football and sit a few places higher nobody gives a flying fuck if Ken is skint or a chancer. If you analyse every other club, there’s all sorts going on. Every fucker thinks they have a clue but they have no idea. I see educated people say things like it’s about time he put his hand in pocket and things like that like it’s a game of championship manager. The same people kicking off at Eddie Davies for giving gartisde all his money to play with. This is real shit, day to day beg stealing and borrowing to pay astronomical wages to a bunch of shit footballers and keep a bunch of whoppers prepared to sit and watch them happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomski Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 48 minutes ago, waffer cup 07 said: It's easy to slag Anderson off for being a chancer and not having enough money, but people need to wake up and realise he's the reason wev'e still got a club to support. Like i said earlier if the team weren't under achieving and were higher up the league no one would bother about Anderson. It’s not easy mate. It’s fucking gutting to be honest. I’m no financials fan but all we ever discuss is money wages people being paid and it’s grim as sin. Would love to just get back on with supporting a shit team. if I didn’t get wound up I’d simply give up and do something else which isn’t what I want as I don’t see many come back from their breaking point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gonzo Posted December 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, tomski said: It’s not easy mate. It’s fucking gutting to be honest. I’m no financials fan but all we ever discuss is money wages people being paid and it’s grim as sin. Would love to just get back on with supporting a shit team. if I didn’t get wound up I’d simply give up and do something else which isn’t what I want as I don’t see many come back from their breaking point. Mate your only ever a port vale or forest away from getting your chi back. Home matches aren’t tosh because of Ken Anderson or winding up orders. Folk aren’t staying because we owe front row sports management a few quid. Folk have had enough because the football is shit and the macron is the shittest place on planet earth when the football is shit. All this stuff just emphasises it. We all know or pretend to know too much. It’s compete overkill. That’s why every fucker is bored to tears with it all. It’s spoke and debated about every single day. Chairmans notes, Marc iles and the twitters m*ngs clamour to get every single piece of info they can to beat the Andersons with saturates everyone. We are all as guilty as charged here. It whips up a frenzy and every cunts in a bad mood going to the match, folk threatening to boycott and spray painting bed sheets. These fuckers have no idea what it actually is they are protesting about. The only thing that can change the mood imo is Parky going to reading and is getting a manager with a positive style of play. If that’s sees us relegated then fair do’s because as it stands we are fucked anyway and everyone’s just pissed off. Only on the pitch stuff can save this from us seeing the season out with no fucker in the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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