Coronavirus

[peelyfeet]

Listen chaps - there's all sorts of info out on the internet. It's hard to know what or who to believe.

One thing I've learnt, is that when presented with conflicting info, to determine which one you want to beleive, you need to interrogate the sources as best you can, think of what the most likley ultimate aim of the source is (why are they telling you this - what benefit do they gain), what liability do they have (who are they responsible to, what are the consequences they will face if their info is incorrect), what expertise do they have, how revelevant is it, what is their track record, how did they get to where they are today, do they openly/have they welcomed challenge to their point of view (have they been questioned / crticised in an open forum)

A lot of the stuff you are seeing regarding covid is coming from experienced political journalists, some who are contrarians who post anything that is contrary to popular (or government, or opposition) opinion. Covid is the topic of the day for them - when this is over they'll be onto brexit, trade deals, immigration, whatever is in the news. They use talking head expert X to back them up. They publish on their own website, or niche publciations, they aren't challenged openly,  they have no responsibility, they want clicks, advertising revenue, to get on the channel 4 news, to sell a book etc etc. 

 

When it comes to science, clear data is the key. Presented in a format without opinion, with conflicts of interests disclosed beforehand so you are aware of bias, with resumes that explain what their aim is, how they operate, without a flowery back story, or political leaning of any sort. 

stuff like this -https://covid.joinzoe.com/faq

compare that to this (sorry Jules)  https://lockdownsceptics.org/

 

make your own minds up - I might be totally wrong.

   

My main task, for several years, has been an independant consultant for businesses without technical expertise, who want to cut through the bullshit and spin that technology companies use when marketing technical products to them, before they buy. I find out what a customer needs and basically strip away bullshit and present the raw data to customers to help them decide. I was a biologist for a bit when I was younger.

  

Edited September 23, 2020 by peelyfeet

[Guest]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/tegnell-downing-street-briefing/amp?__twitter_impression=true

[Big E]

52 minutes ago, Ani said:

Ok. Response is to you Jules Mr Grey and Gonzo. Not doing multi quotes though.😁 

I think the important thing is that we avoid this becoming as divisive as Brexit so we need to understand others peoples views. None of you 4 I would class as loons so just interested in the reasons behind questioning  the new rules.  
 

I do see why the impact on certain sectors and people is unfair. But am struggling what people think could happen given the spike in infections. I do not think claiming the spike is false is useful in that sense. The Govt reduced controls and infections went up. The only example I have of a bar breaking the rules was a bar in Leeds that was Covid compliant but on Saturday night when full they were letting groups of 2 share tables with other groups of 2 which defeats the whole objective. 
The 10 o’clock rule seems bizarre. I would have thought spreading the time would avoid bottle necks. Why not introduce a vigorous compliance regime with places being visited on a regular basis and closed down or more importantly praised depending on compliance. Similar to the hygiene rating these places get. 
I am not working at the moment so the impact on me has been more about not finding work rather than conditions. 
What I am not seeing from the anti lockdown side is the alternative. With nearly 5000 infections a day and a R rate nearly 1.5 what do we do ? 
I echo many of the comments above that a major issue is the Govt lack of credibility on enforcement. Cummings took the piss , they are talking about breaking International law on Brexit but expect everyone to fall in line. 
I will follow the guidelines not because I think I am a martyr or better than others for doing so (as some people on social media seem to think they are) but just because it seems the right thing to do. 

 I have been very fortunate to work throughout lockdown and keep the money coming in. 

Restrictions need to happen to a point but i am seeing a lot of people saying lockdowns are fine who will not be impacted by them. folk working from home and some folk on benefits.  

the lockdown wasn't strict last time and many just used it as a big holiday (see blackpool, liverpool water front, brighton etc....) 

if the hospitals are full and struggling then locked down fully and pay for it but this half arsed effort is only killing the economy 

[Sweep]

10pm the place has to be closed,not last orders

[radcliffe white]

3 minutes ago, Sweep said:

10pm the place has to be closed,not last orders

So next week Liverpool v Arsenal on sky what will pubs do say everyone out for the last 15mins😀

[Sweep]

4 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Fucked if a football match doesnt finish until after 10pm 

Tough, you miss the end of the game

3 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

So next week Liverpool v Arsenal on sky what will pubs do say everyone out for the last 15mins😀

Yes, that's exactly what they have to do by law

[radcliffe white]

2 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Tough, you miss the end of the game

Yes, that's exactly what they have to do by law

Hmm plenty won’t

don’t know why they have to be 8.15 myself 

[radcliffe white]

3 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

I suppose some kick off times need to be adjusted to fit in with the new lockdown rules, and for cup competitions they will need to factor in extra time and pens. Imagine being lobbed out half way through the pens 😁

Help the boozers out and change kick offs by half hour midweek

[MickyD]

11 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Fucked if a football match doesnt finish until after 10pm 

 

10 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

So next week Liverpool v Arsenal on sky what will pubs do say everyone out for the last 15mins😀

 

6 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Tough, you miss the end of the game

Yes, that's exactly what they have to do by law

I’m not getting the argument here.

Pubs are considered dangerous places to visit - check

I don’t want to be ill from Covid19 - check

Or even die - check

Hey, won’t I miss the end of a televised game if they kick me out at 10 pm? - really?

[radcliffe white]

2 minutes ago, MickyD said:

 

 

I’m not getting the argument here.

Pubs are considered dangerous places to visit - check

I don’t want to be ill from Covid19 - check

Or even die - check

Hey, won’t I miss the end of a televised game if they kick me out at 10 pm? - really?

Bit dramatic

It was a tongue & cheek comment 

[MickyD]

2 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Bit dramatic

It was a tongue & cheek comment 

Define dramatic.

[radcliffe white]

1 minute ago, MickyD said:

Define dramatic.

Your last statement

[Sweep]

17 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Help the boozers out and change kick offs by half hour midweek

They could, but probably won't.

I see tonight there are a few games kicking off at 7pm, now that we know there will be no crowds, they could easily shift the kick of times

[Burndens Bogs]

It's always bugged me that our home K.O.'s are 8pm.

Get kicked off at 7.30, or 7.45 at the latest.

If someone asked Auntie Shaz nicely i'm sure she'd sort it.

[Zico]

34 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Fucked if a football match doesnt finish until after 10pm 

Liverpool V Arsenal week on Monday, kicks off 8.15

folk will be getting booted out with 10 mins left

[MickyD]

8 minutes ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Your last statement

It wasn’t a statement, it was a question. Obviously, your next post answered my question by you saying it was a tongue in cheek comment.

[radcliffe white]

1 minute ago, MickyD said:

It wasn’t a statement, it was a question. Obviously, your next post answered my question by you saying it was a tongue in cheek comment.

Fair enough I thought the smiley face might of suggested I was messing 

[Spider]

20% increase in positive cases today on yesterday.

6,178 vs 4,926

Bottom Bull must be doing lock ins

[DazBob]

Pubs shouldn't be allowed to show football matches. Problem solved.

[leigh white]

20-00 Kick off now for scousers.

Edited September 23, 2020 by leigh white

[DazBob]

7 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

But they are allowed open, and legally and having paid their TV Media subscriptions they are allowed to. 

 

Of course.

But the government could quite easily ban the showing of live sports. It'd also be healthier in that you'd not have blokes shouting at the televisions and expelling their covid-ridden spittle around the place.

[radcliffe white]

6 minutes ago, leigh white said:

20-00 Kick off now for scousers.

Good a bit of common sense 

[DazBob]

Let's just hope there are no bad injuries and loads of VAR calls in the second half.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, boltondiver said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/tegnell-downing-street-briefing/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Quite interesting to read that the Swedish public voluntarily took on distancing measures. 

Could that be representative of a major difference (culturally) between our nations?

Perhaps a more pragmatic, but mutually respectful society as opposed to ours, which seems, in part at least, selfish, moaning, judgemental and dismissive amongst other descriptors.

 

[DazBob]

1 minute ago, Mr Grey said:

So you wanna ban that armchair passion 😁

ha, not at all. Just saying if pubs were banned from live sports they could justify it.