Lt. Aldo Raine Posted May 17 Posted May 17 6 hours ago, masi 51 said: A first team coach has the final say on everything from recruitment Well, not quite Quote
boltonboris Posted May 17 Posted May 17 1 hour ago, masi 51 said: Not got a clue what a assistant kitman does? Out of interest what would a ex professional player without coaching badges do at a club? Be an assistant kitman? 😉 Quote
Sluffy Posted Saturday at 14:22 Posted Saturday at 14:22 I could not find a current article answering this question but the following is in respect to last season. How much are the EFL play-off final worth? Jonty Colman BBC Sport journalist Published 13 May 2025 The winners of the 2024-25 Championship play-off final are set to receive a minimum of £200m in extra income. Their counterparts in League One will be about £12m better off, while the club victorious in the League Two final will receive more than £2m in additional income. While not as lucrative as the Championship final, there is still good money up for grabs for winning promotion out of League One and League Two. For the 2024-25 season, clubs in the Championship received about £11m - a significant jump from a figure in the region of £2m per season for playing in League One. The £11m is made up of a 'basic award' and solidarity payments from the Premier League. In League Two, the corresponding figure is in the region of £1.5m per season. Both Championship play-off finalists also receive a share of the gate receipts from Wembley - which is about £2m. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cp92z8dlv8xo Playoff Final: Bolton v Stockport (24/05/2026) - Page 2 Quote
meanderson93 Posted Saturday at 14:36 Posted Saturday at 14:36 9 minutes ago, Sluffy said: I could not find a current article answering this question but the following is in respect to last season. How much are the EFL play-off final worth? Jonty Colman BBC Sport journalist Published 13 May 2025 The winners of the 2024-25 Championship play-off final are set to receive a minimum of £200m in extra income. Their counterparts in League One will be about £12m better off, while the club victorious in the League Two final will receive more than £2m in additional income. While not as lucrative as the Championship final, there is still good money up for grabs for winning promotion out of League One and League Two. For the 2024-25 season, clubs in the Championship received about £11m - a significant jump from a figure in the region of £2m per season for playing in League One. The £11m is made up of a 'basic award' and solidarity payments from the Premier League. In League Two, the corresponding figure is in the region of £1.5m per season. Both Championship play-off finalists also receive a share of the gate receipts from Wembley - which is about £2m. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cp92z8dlv8xo Playoff Final: Bolton v Stockport (24/05/2026) - Page 2 The difference for me isn't even necessarily in income, it's in the unrealised gains in the case of potential player sales and talent acquisition whether that's for the first team or academy. Say someone like Ritchie or Warren breaks in to the first team next season, we're going to get exponentially more for him if he's plying his trade in the Championship than we are if we're still in League 1. Quote
Sluffy Posted Saturday at 15:09 Posted Saturday at 15:09 15 minutes ago, meanderson93 said: The difference for me isn't even necessarily in income, it's in the unrealised gains in the case of potential player sales and talent acquisition whether that's for the first team or academy. Say someone like Ritchie or Warren breaks in to the first team next season, we're going to get exponentially more for him if he's plying his trade in the Championship than we are if we're still in League 1. Well that would only apply if if the like's of Ritchie or Warren prove themselves to be Championship quality players or better. What you don't seem to consider taking into account is the reverse - namely players who have been regular players for us in League 1 who who can't hack it in the division above - and the cost of replacing and upgrading them. I also imagine some/several of our players may have clauses in their contracts that trigger bonus payments on promotion and/or an increased salary. There is also the question of the bonus payment of 10% to the Bond holders (£450k) and a payment of £250k to Eddie Davies estate, that will fall due. The value to my mind of promotion is to make the club that more attractive to a prospective buyer by now only being one tier away from the PL rather than two. Whatever the benefit or cost I do hope we win tomorrow. I'm sure the owners will feel exactly the same. Quote
jmjhb Posted Saturday at 16:37 Posted Saturday at 16:37 2 hours ago, meanderson93 said: Say someone like Ritchie or Warren breaks in to the first team next season, we're going to get exponentially more for him if he's plying his trade in the Championship than we are if we're still in League 1. Thomason would be a good example here Quote
Dr. Feelgood Posted Saturday at 16:39 Posted Saturday at 16:39 1 minute ago, jmjhb said: Thomason would be a good example here "Never a player while he has a hole in his arse". Quote
Traf Posted Saturday at 20:27 Posted Saturday at 20:27 I don’t want to be all pessimistic and/or negative but neither Warren nor Ritchie are getting minutes next season if we go up. This also applies to those we’ve got out on loan right now. Quote
only1swanny Posted Saturday at 21:08 Posted Saturday at 21:08 38 minutes ago, Traf said: I don’t want to be all pessimistic and/or negative but neither Warren nor Ritchie are getting minutes next season if we go up. This also applies to those we’ve got out on loan right now. This is true, but we would in theory, start getting better players in and developing more. Bit sad it hasn't worked for SSA, he's been on loan and not had a look in, but these things happen and so few make it. I'd wager that Hutchinson, Charlie Warren and Sam Inwood have a look in, but Daeshon lawrence, Big Dave (struggled apparently at Accrington), will possibly not. I hope Im proven wrong on this.. Quote
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted Saturday at 21:18 Posted Saturday at 21:18 6 minutes ago, only1swanny said: I'd wager that Hutchinson, Charlie Warren and Sam Inwood have a look in, but Daeshon lawrence, Big Dave (struggled apparently at Accrington), will possibly not. I hope Im proven wrong on this.. The very strong likelihood unfortunately is none will Quote
Sweep Posted Saturday at 21:27 Posted Saturday at 21:27 18 minutes ago, only1swanny said: I'd wager that Hutchinson, Charlie Warren and Sam Inwood have a look in, but Daeshon lawrence, Big Dave (struggled apparently at Accrington), will possibly not. I hope Im proven wrong on this.. Sadly, he's absolute dog shit, he'll be working in a warehouse by the time he's 22, never going to be a footballer Quote
Sluffy Posted Saturday at 23:28 Posted Saturday at 23:28 52 minutes ago, only1swanny said: This is true, but we would in theory, start getting better players in and developing more. With respect I don't believe that to be the case. Probably those on here who are familiar with local youth football @Dr Faustus seems to be the go to man, would know better. He certainly likes to troll me but I give him his due that from what I've read on here, he knows his youth coaching and the non league / league academies scouting set ups and more likely what influences how the parents of talented kids, choose the career path in football for them. I suspect us being a Championship club rather than a League 1 team does not carry much sway but rather that the higher standard of quality development and training they will receive, will. To than end I suspect the clubs intent to up grade from a Cat 3 to Cat 2, might be far more appealing to them? WANDERERS are seeking to upgrade their academy status for the first time in six years, says sporting director Fergal Harkin. Plans are in place to improve the club’s youth system by moving from category three to category two, which would come at a cost of around £1million per season. Wanderers opted to downgrade to Cat 3 in 2020, which saw the disintegration of a successful Development Squad that had been coached by club legend David Lee. A year later it was decided that the club would pursue a B Team model, similar to the one used by Brentford at the time. It was eventually entered into the Central League for regular competitive fixtures, but the move has not been a successful one, and the flow of players from B Team to first team has been limited. Bolton Wanderers try to upgrade academy status, says Harkin | The Bolton News I imagine other factors also come into play but clearly the club is admitting that our current method of brining on and developing the next generation of Wanderers players is not working and simply moving up a division will not change that very much if at all. I would be interested to hear Faustus views on this and trust they are more pertinent than his imaginative assessment of myself and how, from being born at Townleys and living the first twenty odd years of my life in Halliwell, somehow (in his furtive imagination) that I now somehow alliterate like Q from the James Bond films. As the saying goes, you can take the boy out of 'Bowton', but you'll never take the 'Bowton' out of the boy. Can they cocker? Quote
boltonboris Posted yesterday at 02:31 Posted yesterday at 02:31 Isn’t one of the issues that we DO have talented youngsters that we lose to early and too cheaply? Quote
Sluffy Posted yesterday at 06:30 Posted yesterday at 06:30 3 hours ago, boltonboris said: Isn’t one of the issues that we DO have talented youngsters that we lose to early and too cheaply? Personally I think that is just a myth that is trotted out by fans of every club throughout the country, each and every season. Please forgive the length of the list below but how many off there went out to have a decent career above League 1 Level? Not many. And these are only the ones who actually 'made it' - played one or more games for a league club - just imagine how many others didn't manage even that? Bolton Wanderers F.C. Reserves and Academy The following players have been associated with the Bolton Wanderers Academy and have gone on to play league football for Bolton or other clubs since the academy was founded in 1998. Academy Graduates who have made at least one senior appearance for the Bolton Wanderers first team David Abimbola Matthew Alexander Bright Amoateng Sam Ashton Błażej Augustyn Chris Basham Adam Blakeman Jordan Boon Harry Brockbank Eddie Brown De'Marlio Brown-Sterling Wayne Buchanan Zach Clough Charlie Comyn-Platt Luca Connell Max Conway Ronan Darcy Jack Earing Jay Fitzmartin Jarosław Fojut Tyler Garratt Arthur Gnahoua Sonny Graham Mitchell Henry Sean Hogan Rob Holding Nicky Hunt Luke Hutchinson Sam Inwood Harley Irwin Andy Kellett Callum King-Harmes Daeshon Lawrence Chris Lester Conor Lewis Danny Livesey Finlay Lockett Niall Maher Aaron Morley Joe Muscatt Kevin Nolan Temitope Obadeyi Sanmi Odelusi Joey O'Brien Michael O'Halloran Alex Perry Arran Pettifer Dennis Politic Harrison Rice Joe Riley Regan Riley Toby Ritchie Alex Samizadeh Adam Senior Ricky Shakes Sonny Sharples-Ahmed James Sinclair Robert Sissons Johann Smith Oliver Smith Cleveland Taylor Oscar Threlkeld Lamine Toure Matthew Tweedley Ricardo Vaz Tê Josh Vela Tom Walker Danny Ward Joe White Nathan Woolfe Tom Youngs Other players associated with the academy who have made at least one senior appearance for league clubs in Britain or abroad. James Ball Rhys Bennett Michael Bird Bédi Buval Michael Byrne Matthew Cassidy James Caton Christopher Cvetko Tom Eckersley Mark Ellis Ashley Fletcher Tom Grivosti Brad Holmes Chris Howarth Georg Iliev Will Jääskeläinen Scott Jamieson Przemysław Kazimierczak Rob Lainton Jay Lynch Alex McQuade Marcos Michael Aaron Mooy Sean Mountford Alex Newby Alan O'Hare Ike Orazi Nathaniel Phillips Anthony Pinto Aaron Ramsdale Jack Sampson Jan-Ole Sievers Chris Stokes André Sødlund Jason Talbot Jamie Thomas Les Thompson Matt Tubbs Jake Turner Kevin Wolze Luke Woodland Bolton Wanderers F.C. Reserves and Academy - Wikipedia Quote
Lt. Aldo Raine Posted yesterday at 06:39 Posted yesterday at 06:39 I think he means the younger age groups losing players to other academies Quote
boltonboris Posted yesterday at 07:51 Posted yesterday at 07:51 @Sluffy I’m talking about 11/12/13 years here by the way. Not scholars Quote
Sluffy Posted yesterday at 08:00 Posted yesterday at 08:00 51 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: I think he means the younger age groups losing players to other academies Then why did he say we lose them 'cheaply'? Doesn't an arbitration panel set the fees between clubs for academy players, we have no say putting a price our kids value - and of course visa versa, if we wanted to raid some other clubs academy. I can't remember the last time we went to arbitration, maybe for Luca Connell and seven years later he's only a third tier player, hardly missed out greatly there. I imagine Zach Clough has been our best sale - £4m to Forest - what a steal that was - more them over paying than us losing a good one. Rob Holding is arguably the best youngster we brought through and sold and Nolan the best we had and kept. But going back to my original point, there is nothing special about being a Championship if we still have an academy/youth/reserve structure - call it what you will - if it isn't working - and the club recognises it isn't - and I would add even more to that, in that it didn't produce much when we were a Cat 1 club at Euxton. Yes I know we won some sort of award for being the best club to produce players but that's not much use to us if we are in the Premier League or Championship whilst we turn out League 1 and 2 players at best? Quote
Sluffy Posted yesterday at 08:30 Posted yesterday at 08:30 9 minutes ago, boltonboris said: @Sluffy I’m talking about 11/12/13 years here by the way. Not scholars Ah ok. I'm still a little bit confused? Are you saying the club signs up these preteenagers then tries to sell them on - you did say "too cheaply"? I can't believe that's right is it? As far as I know children can enter in to apprenticeships, so I could understand them having sign a contract to join the clubs academy but I would have thought at the ages you talk about, there would be break clause in them if they wanted to join another clubs academy, rather than fees involved? I wouldn't have ever thought the money would change hands between clubs at those sort of ages. I can't say I've ever taken any interest in children's football (fair play to you and the others on here that do) and what little I know I find somewhat distasteful, young kids being signed up as toddlers almost if they show even the remotest sign of having some footballing talent, great I suppose for the few who make it in the end but plenty of unfulfilled dreams for the many that don't. Fwiw I go along with what you and the others on the Kids Football thread on here advocate, that it is all about children having fun having a chance to play irrespective of their ability, and that winning isn't everything. Quote
boltonboris Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago 23 hours ago, Sluffy said: Ah ok. I'm still a little bit confused? Are you saying the club signs up these preteenagers then tries to sell them on - you did say "too cheaply”? No. I’m not saying the club tries to sell preteenagers. I’ve not read my post back, but don’t know where I have insinuated that we use that as a method(?) What the club do, is sign promising young footballers into their ETC and academy system. In the hope that they can play for the first team in the future, or can be sold on for decent money when they’re a bit older. The best ones, we often lose quite early to other clubs. Who have better facilities, better resources and have elite academy status. It’s usually via their parents. The B team model looked like it had a negative impact and some blurred lines between the academy and the first team pathway. But I’d did unearth some players who did and have made appearances in the first team. So it’s clear we have a talent pool even with boys being taken by the likes of City, United, Liverpool etc. Imagine if we could protect ourselves better from them?! And yes, money can and often does change hands for 12, 13, 14 year old kids. Quote
jmjhb Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago (edited) It doesn't help when we release players like Ramsdale! Edited 5 hours ago by jmjhb Quote
Sluffy Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago 1 minute ago, jmjhb said: It doesn't help when we release players like Ramsdale! True but as the list of players above who were in the academy system AND played one game or more for us or another league team (and there must be many more times that amount who never even managed that), then for all those hundreds of kids released, they got nearly all of them right with the odd exception such as Ramsdale. You can't really blame the academy for getting one in say a thousand wrong, can you? Quote
waffer cup 07 Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Sluffy said: True but as the list of players above who were in the academy system AND played one game or more for us or another league team (and there must be many more times that amount who never even managed that), then for all those hundreds of kids released, they got nearly all of them right with the odd exception such as Ramsdale. You can't really blame the academy for getting one in say a thousand wrong, can you? Show me an academy that has'nt release a player that's later matured and had a good career. Quote
jmjhb Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 4 minutes ago, Sluffy said: True but as the list of players above who were in the academy system AND played one game or more for us or another league team (and there must be many more times that amount who never even managed that), then for all those hundreds of kids released, they got nearly all of them right with the odd exception such as Ramsdale. You can't really blame the academy for getting one in say a thousand wrong, can you? Not at all, but you only need to get it right once or twice every few years for it to be somewhat worthwhile. Quote
Sluffy Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 20 minutes ago, boltonboris said: No. I’m not saying the club tries to sell preteenagers. I’ve not read my post back, but don’t know where I have insinuated that we use that as a method(?) What the club do, is sign promising young footballers into their ETC and academy system. In the hope that they can play for the first team in the future, or can be sold on for decent money when they’re a bit older. The best ones, we often lose quite early to other clubs. Who have better facilities, better resources and have elite academy status. It’s usually via their parents. The B team model looked like it had a negative impact and some blurred lines between the academy and the first team pathway. But I’d did unearth some players who did and have made appearances in the first team. So it’s clear we have a talent pool even with boys being taken by the likes of City, United, Liverpool etc. Imagine if we could protect ourselves better from them?! And yes, money can and often does change hands for 12, 13, 14 year old kids. Thanks for the reply. You said this earlier... Isn’t one of the issues that we DO have talented youngsters that we lose to early and too cheaply? ...and it was the use if the word 'cheaply' I picked up on, and when you further posted... I’m talking about 11/12/13 years here by the way. Not scholars that That is where I thought you were talking about preteenagers. I'm sure every conurbation generates promising young footballers - indeed our 1958 Cup winning team I believe were all local lads to Bolton - and obviously it is in everybody's interest (the parents, the club and probably even the boy himself) to be developed locally - so it becomes then a question of getting the best training and development most suited to the child and were he is happy. At preteen age the parents are mostly likely to be the ones taking those decisions so I could not quite square in my head how clubs were somehow 'selling' these children "too cheaply"? I assumed you must have been talking about another clubs academy offering some sort of a transfer fee to which Bolton were selling the kids on "too cheaply" Obviously I couldn't believe that to be true and hence wondered if they even could be on contracts at that age, and if so there must legally be break clauses in them in order to protect the child. I'm aware of some youth 'transfers' going on but I always thought that was for older children and that the fees where set by an Arbitration Panel rather than clubs 'selling' "too cheaply"? As I've said previously I don't take much if any interest in youth football (my daughter never had any interest in football, watching or playing). Thank you for enlightening me on such things and if as you say in your latest post money changes hands for 12 year olds, then I imagine you are referring to the club paying an inducement to the parents as a sort of signing on fee, otherwise your original comments must stand in that someone is actually buying and selling preteen children's registrations and that in your opinion the club (as the selling club) are letting children move on to other clubs "too cheaply"? It still doesn't seem right to me but I've no doubts if that is the way it is that everything is regulated and above board. And kudos to you for putting in your time and effort for the benefit of the young kids of your community. Many thanks. Quote
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