The Last Of The Evatt In ...

[gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

His comments there and in his answer to Dearden's question about whether he'd taken us as far as he can suggest to me he isn't under significant pressure from the board

I don't think he is.

The fans are a different matter though.

[UKkuhl]

2 hours ago, Krimzon said:

Im used to being alone in my opinions and fighting a losing or unpopular arguement , but here is I think , some food for thought. 

After the Tranmere Play Off Final the club had an unbelievable hangover from that defeat which lasted the whole season . We were doing ok until mid feb and got the stuffing kicked out of us in an FA cup tie away at Southampton .

Despite signing Andy Walker & Mark patterson , and yet to have Stubbs & MacAteer play , From Jan we won 4 out of the last 19 games . Philliskirk 19 , Walker 18 , Reeves 15, Darby 10 goals and finished 13th . After getting beat away at Preston at the end of March when 1-0 up in the 89th minute and losing 2-1 , Phil Neal, realising the play offs were too far away  played the kids to see if any of them would step up and change things : Spooner, Roscoe, Fisher, Brookman, Stevens, Jeffrey.  It didnt work and we finished 13th .

I see a lot of similarities to this team and manager . Devastated by missing out on promotion at Wembley when everyone outside of the wirrall/Oxford thought we would do it. Players who did amazing last season just no longer cutting it . The Wembley hang over curse that only seems to affect us . 

Rioch came in and was obviously a genius but he already had a first team of Felgate, Seagraves, Stubbs, P Brown, Macateer , Storer , Patterson , Winstanley , Green , Darby , Kelly , Reeves , Philliskirk & Walker . I think Neal would have got us promoted with that squad. 

Rioch brought in Brannigan , McGinlay , Lydiate & Gary Parkinson, and in January David Lee . 1 would fire in a shed load of goals , the keeper IMO didnt need replacing and the other 2 the less said the better. Lee replaced Patterson wide left and Paddy was moved inside to midfield to compete with Kelly & Macateer . I remember the abuse Tony Kelly used to get as he was brought in to replace Steve Thompson and wasnt half the player , but with Macateer replacing Jules as they call him at Bolton , it worked . With Darby becoming the epitomy of a utility player and eventually being hounded out by the Bolton fans for being home grown . We just dont take to um , strange really.  

The point of all this waffle is that  IF we write off this season as just another 91/92 and regroup , the squad IS good enough to get promoted next season . The Board place a very high regard on working relationships and it seems to be the best Ive known .

If thats the case Then I expect a huge clear out and rebuilding in January . The 2 in midfield simply does not work , Adebanjo , as much as you want to love the guy is just not good enough , playing Macatee in midfield isnt good enough and playng wingers as wing backs is not good enough . There are players like Ricardo gardner that will adapt there game to suit whatever is asked of them , as did Campo , Hierro , Bernard Mendy (which was when we played with actual wing backs and scared the crap out of the Prem at the time) , Kevin Davies et al . yes we are talking about National and World class players but the principle remains. 

If Evatt stays , then he has to know/learn that his style of football  (whilst it has given us plenty of joy) isnt pragmatic enough to play the way he wants with 3rd division footballers . I would take a Steve Thompson & Julian Darby over what we currently play in midfield , a ratter and a passer . SJM and Andy Walker showed you dont need a big un and a litl un at this level up front, and the last time we got promoted from this division we had 2 centre backs in wheavers and Beaters that would never allow a cross into the box at head hieght or above and would put there body . legs , face, bollocks on the line to defend. and come up with 10 goals between them .   If a cross comes in now if Rico doesnt head it out then who can ? 

Speaking of which why has Santos suddenly morphed into Mark Fish ? 

As is stands so far this season , being nearly half way thru :

Baxter : Always thought he was a bit Dracula but now his dithering with the ball at his feet is just pissing me off , excellent shot stopper but Id drop him . 

Southwood : After a shaky start looks a proper keeper , decent shotstopper and quicker with the ball at his feet than his oppo . I couldnt give a shit if its fear . Im now in the saftey / row zed / put some fucking snow on it , camp. 

GJ : If he had been fit all of last season we would have gone up , no question no arguments. Since he came back apart from the first 2 months he has looked a shadow of himself. 

Santos : looks an absolute shadow of himself , like he has lost some pace and no longer knows what to do on the ball .

Jones : filling in and back from injury but a center half he isnt , had his best season with Bradley in front of him but then I would have too.

Toal : FFS mate stay fit , see GJ above .

Forrester : Im a fan of , has rarely let us down , no more than any one else. Did he fall down the stairs or did he kick fuck out of the microwave for getting his beans wrong ? 

Schon : A winger not a wing back , hampered by having to do both jobs. 

Desmond : As above , jury out on his defensive side . Evatt pandered to the crowd to start him today . Big mistake. 

JDC : Not his biggest fan but unreal engine and defends better than the above .  If he could only stop trying to cut inside when he gets forward !!

Williams : Has a long throw.

GT : Not the Messiah everyone wants him to be , 1 great game + 2 crap ones .

Matete : Player in there somewhere , but if playing as a DMC stop fucking fancy daning it.

Sheehan : Hugely disappointing this year , should never have been turned into a dmc quarterback . Play him behind the front 2 and give him a free role 

Morley : see above , cant come back quick enough if only to solve the 2 in midfield fiasco . Smacks of the last year of JJ when BSA wanted him to defend more . Like Sheehan , JJ , Ricky.  you lose more than you gain . 

Dempsey : crowd favourite , drives us on forever injured.

Lolos : no idea 

Adebanjo : should never play for us again . Lovely guy we all want to succeed , never gonna happen. 

Macatee : Im being asked to play where ?  probably MOM against Wigin but a very very low bar . Put him up front with Charles to have two ratters , I could see it work. however...

Charles : Did he get a pass ? Did he make any kind of movement to open up for a pass ? Looks burned out .

Collins : clearly the best footballer at the club ...how do you fancy 15 mins every other month that has a q in it ? 

Arfield : who ?

Sonny sssasasa : Anyone and I mean anyone would have been better in midfield than the tactics today . 

 

So , and if you are still reading God bless you Im boring myself, whats the answer ?  

Either Evatt gets the time to have a miraculous January where he brings in the second coming of Kieron Lee , Stig Tofting & Gudni Bergsson , flukes a Sasa Curcic & Abdoulaye Faye/ Rahdi Jedi . OR He completely reevaluates his philosophy and becomes the new BSA , If it works we do it , just to get us out of this shitty fucking league . No VAR ? Stand in front of the keeper and see what happens , linesmans blind and we now have Andre the Giant to aim at !

Or the board back him saying this season is a write off but here is some cash for the summer , go get Dennis Bergkamp.

Or he falls on his sword . Says Ive done all I can with this group of players , time for someone else to kick on . (Schumacher ?)

For me , I hate that its got to the Megson point (at least Evatt hasnt spunked 44 million) but the fans have turned and so have I .

Phil Neal had the OLD Liverpool way of 15 first teamers that would play anywhere rather than bringing someone else in ( Mark Came up front ?) til it was too late . Evatt is the same .

(cant believe I managed to bring it full circle)

And so now unfortunately , regretably , finally , and I take zero pleasure form writing this........I am also for a change of manager. 

 

 

 

 

 

48 years old and i agree 100% but would our next manager be Rioch?

[Duck Egg]

Under appreciated and only the woke against them 

[desperado]

10 minutes ago, UKkuhl said:

48 years old and i agree 100% but would our next manager be Rioch?

I’m taking one thread at a time (not been on the Wigan one yet) but a change of manager now is really needed to inject a bit of passion, belief, enthusiasm and hope.

I’m in the thought process of cancelling our trip to Wycombe, the only reason I’ve not done yet, is in case Evatt goes, then I’ll go.

But there’s no way I’m going and dragging down the family while we can witness that shit again with little chance of any passion or hope.

He’s got to go

Edited December 14, 2024 by desperado

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

His biggest problem imo is that he improved in people’s minds when he was injured. 

He’s always had this in him. When he’s confident and on his game he’s a great player and well good enough to be top end of this league.

He has a tendency to become really indecisive though and it fucks his whole game up. I don’t know whether it’s a confidence thing or not but it’s like he second guesses every decision he makes, you can literally see him go for a ball, then stop for a split second then go again, by which point he’s been done and will usually foul or end up chasing the forward.

He’s in one of those spells again and has been for about 5 games. He needs to get back to playing on instinct and get out of his own head.

I would say that I don’t think Schon is helping him - he’s terrible defensively and is a bit unpredictable himself, which can’t be helping Johnston in being decisive and commanding. I’m not sure id want to play alongside Santos either, especially when he’s in a funk like today, he plays like he’s trying to put Johnston and Jones in trouble, wait for the press and then roll a ball to them as slowly as possible, 3 yards behind them and then just leaves them to deal with him. I’m surprised either Jones or Johnston didn’t fill him in the sulky twat. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

26 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I don't think he is.

The fans are a different matter though.

Aye

I think the only thing that changes the board's mind is if we end up drifting too far away from the play-offs

A defeat in a local derby on its own won't 

[Ani]

54 minutes ago, desperado said:

Me too

We call Twatter but sometimes they get it right:

Can’t believe he’s said this:

Ian Evatt: "What would you prefer...to not go to Wembley in back-to-back years, to not be in the play-offs, to not be sniffing around the top of the table...but to beat Wigan every year? I wouldn't want to trade all that...I want to get this club to where I believe it should be.”

- Sniffing around top of the table’ — 12 points behind in December 🤒👍
- ⁠Bolton Wanderers are closer to the bottom four (11 points) than they are to the top two…(12 points) 
- ⁠Why can’t we be at the top of the table AND beating Wigan? Why should it be one or the other?
- ⁠You’re missing the point Ian, it’s not about beating Wigan. They’re tin pot and created their own rivalry against us as there’s no other fucker interested in them. It’s the manner in which we lose games, spineless with no cohesion or tactical progression from week to the next
- ⁠It’s not one or the other you fcking melon. We can do well and not get embarrassed by our biggest rivals every year. Not only do they beat us but they batter us, and it’s evident they want it more than us.

Last week every word he said was about being in it together, how the defeats hurt the players and staff as much as the players.

Today he does not understand why the fans are pissed off. 

[thebells]

12 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Aye

I think the only thing that changes the board's mind is if we end up drifting too far away from the play-offs

A defeat in a local derby on its own won't 

He acknowledges in the last 5 words of his interview that the ‘pile on’ as he calls it is becoming a problem. 
 

Boards ALWAYS buckle to fan pressure eventually as there isn’t a club without them. 
 

We’ve reached the tipping point. Of course Ian won’t agree. He doesn’t want to be unemployed. But those two Xmas games could be pretty grim if he’s still here. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

I'm sure he doesn't want to be unemployed, but at times you wonder!

Same failings, blaming fans, blaming players, and spending quite a bit.

All a bit "conspiracy theory"; but at times I wonder if he is trying to get himself the old heave ho.

 

[BeeversLeftPeg]

Look at the last 3 games at home to Wigan.

2021/22 - outclassed. They had a better and more experienced squad, were ruthless and dominated us from the off.

2023/24 - Not outclassed but they were absolutely clinical. 4 shots on target and bagged 4.

Today - man for man technically we are a much better side, Tickle in goal the exception maybe? But they wanted it so much more than we did. That is the recurring theme. players that want it, players on their side get it. McClean, Lang, Humphreys all loved giving it out and revelled in it. All those gone and they were STILL more up for this game than we ever have been under Evatt. 

He won't go, but I don't see him ever improving us now.

FWIW, I'd look to bring Schumacher in. I just don't think he'll be moving on anytime soon.

[Stig]

40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

He’s always had this in him. When he’s confident and on his game he’s a great player and well good enough to be top end of this league.

He has a tendency to become really indecisive though and it fucks his whole game up. I don’t know whether it’s a confidence thing or not but it’s like he second guesses every decision he makes, you can literally see him go for a ball, then stop for a split second then go again, by which point he’s been done and will usually foul or end up chasing the forward.

He’s in one of those spells again and has been for about 5 games. He needs to get back to playing on instinct and get out of his own head.

I would say that I don’t think Schon is helping him - he’s terrible defensively and is a bit unpredictable himself, which can’t be helping Johnston in being decisive and commanding. I’m not sure id want to play alongside Santos either, especially when he’s in a funk like today, he plays like he’s trying to put Johnston and Jones in trouble, wait for the press and then roll a ball to them as slowly as possible, 3 yards behind them and then just leaves them to deal with him. I’m surprised either Jones or Johnston didn’t fill him in the sulky twat. 

There was a passage of play about 10 mins in that summed that up. Schon gave a terrible pass to Johnstone, who then won the ball back but kind of stumbled on it and then pulled his man down for a yellow.

And then about 2 mins later Santos drilled a ball at him that would have made him retreat to goal with a man on him. Johnston kind of miscontrolled it but really just let it go out to get reset defensively.

Both examples of how we put ourselves under pressure and there's no rollicking from anyone. Just a bizarre acceptance we need to keep doing this shambolic passing 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

20 minutes ago, thebells said:

He acknowledges in the last 5 words of his interview that the ‘pile on’ as he calls it is becoming a problem. 
 

Boards ALWAYS buckle to fan pressure eventually as there isn’t a club without them. 
 

We’ve reached the tipping point. Of course Ian won’t agree. He doesn’t want to be unemployed. But those two Xmas games could be pretty grim if he’s still here. 

I'm not sure we're the type to put a board under pressure like that

Even after everything that's happened up to this point, the supporters still turned up in their numbers today

[desperado]

5 minutes ago, Stig said:

There was a passage of play about 10 mins in that summed that up. Schon gave a terrible pass to Johnstone, who then won the ball back but kind of stumbled on it and then pulled his man down for a yellow.

And then about 2 mins later Santos drilled a ball at him that would have made him retreat to goal with a man on him. Johnston kind of miscontrolled it but really just let it go out to get reset defensively.

Both examples of how we put ourselves under pressure and there's no rollicking from anyone. Just a bizarre acceptance we need to keep doing this shambolic passing 

Fucking hell, it’s like re-living a nightmare, if I hadn’t read that I’d have probably forgotten about it (selective memory blocking out trauma) but now you’ve mentioned it, it happened right in front of us as you described. Absolutely fucking ridiculous! Which lead to our first booking.

I take it we’ve mentioned the 3 fucking bookings!!! (Still not been in the Wigan thread) 

All of whom miss Wycombe!!

Its a fucking horrible joke all of this isn’t it??!!

[Eddie]

5 minutes ago, Stig said:

There was a passage of play about 10 mins in that summed that up. Schon gave a terrible pass to Johnstone, who then won the ball back but kind of stumbled on it and then pulled his man down for a yellow.

And then about 2 mins later Santos drilled a ball at him that would have made him retreat to goal with a man on him. Johnston kind of miscontrolled it but really just let it go out to get reset defensively.

Both examples of how we put ourselves under pressure and there's no rollicking from anyone. Just a bizarre acceptance we need to keep doing this shambolic passing 

I know exactly the passage you mean. It just seemed to snowball and they made worse and worse decisions.

No rollocking is important - there’s not a leader between them. GT is far more of a leader than Santos but you need more than one young lad to put some leadership in a team. During that passage of play, they just moan at each other, Santos does his arms out shrug shoulders, slouch and look down at the floor thing and Johnston just looks like he wouldn’t say boo to a goose.

The team from last season didn’t need the playbook ripping up, it needed some physicality, athleticism and leadership adding - I’d actually say we went backwards on all accounts.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Johnston just looks like he wouldn’t say boo to a goose.

There's a clip on Twitter of the two clubs' players right before kick-off, and while edited footage can often be deceiving, Johnston looks fucking terrified

Edited December 14, 2024 by Lt. Aldo Raine

[Johnnyrotten]

18 minutes ago, BeeversLeftPeg said:

 

Today - man for man technically we are a much better side, Tickle in goal the exception maybe? But they wanted it so much more than we did. That is the recurring theme. players that want it, players on their side get it. McClean, Lang, Humphreys all loved giving it out and revelled in it. All those gone and they were STILL more up for this game than we ever have been under Evatt. 

 

Other than Santos, which of our players today would you swap for their's?  I find it strange how overrated our players are, we can surely we aren't saying the likes of Jones, Schon, Vic, Tomo would improve the Wigan team??

[bolty58]

35 minutes ago, thebells said:

Boards ALWAYS buckle to fan pressure eventually as there isn’t a club without them. 

A crowd boycott.

The trigger.

[thebells]

9 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'm not sure we're the type to put a board under pressure like that

Even after everything that's happened up to this point, the supporters still turned up in their numbers today

Numbers are there for sure. But not a person on this board now wants him to stay (there admittedly may be a silent minority). 
 

Chants around us mirrored those of the Wigan fans re getting sacked in the morning. 
 

The tide has definitely turned. It takes a strong board to resist that growing pressure. 

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

A crowd boycott.

The trigger.

I couldn’t boycott to get rid of a manager. 

[gonzo]

We've got investors waiting to pull the trigger.

There's only Sharon etc that will keep him there.

[Johnnyrotten]

23 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I couldn’t boycott to get rid of a manager. 

My brother and nephew came over from Lincoln today, hated every minute, then reminded me after the game they need me to sort tickets for them for Lincoln, Barnsley and Mansfield.  Me not going isn't an option, supporting a football team is nowt to do with who the temporary manager is, its a way of life.

Edited December 14, 2024 by Johnnyrotten

[bolty58]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I couldn’t boycott to get rid of a manager. 

I have seen boycotts quite a few times in Serie A. 

Affirmative action - one a board can't ignore.

[Greg_BWFC]

4 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Other than Santos, which of our players today would you swap for their's?  I find it strange how overrated our players are, we can surely we aren't saying the likes of Jones, Schon, Vic, Tomo would improve the Wigan team??

Good point.

I think our team can play better collectively than they did today, but they were way ahead of us with regard to speed fitness and athleticism.

Division 3 players are going to be technically brilliant no matter how much we try to convince ourselves. 

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

I have seen boycotts quite a few times in Serie A. 

Affirmative action - one a board can't ignore.

You boycotted your own country, you big flouncer. Most of us have a bit more bottle.

[BeeversLeftPeg]

12 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Other than Santos, which of our players today would you swap for their's?  I find it strange how overrated our players are, we can surely we aren't saying the likes of Jones, Schon, Vic, Tomo would improve the Wigan team??

I'm talking on a an average week in L1, not just on today's performance, and that is my point entirely. 

The desire Wigan have when they play us negates any advantage in terms of availability we may have. It's a shambles.