Newcastle

[trotter58]

From Newcastle Online

 

Will Allardyce learn from his mistakes?

By Happy Face On Sat 24 Nov 2007

 

If you only read the papers you?d be forgiven for thinking that Newcastle fans can?t wait to see the back of Big Sam Allardyce. He?s been underperforming and Mike ?The Gut? Ashley has already got his eye on possible replacements, with current over-performer and lover of the North East Harry Redknapp the latest apparent target. Points must be taken from our difficult run of three games or the managers position will be untenable, apparently. Of course, the more sensible among us who chat about this stuff over a pint and a pie know that this is complete hokum. We don?t like to see four goals conceded at home, and some might even boo when it happens, but I?ve yet to meet a fan who even privately wants rid, let alone one that?s gone so far as to try starting a chant of ?We want fat Sam out? which would surely be met by derision from all around. It is safe in this knowledge that we must still be able to question a few of the new man?s decisions in the hope that he won?t repeat his mistakes; here are (in my opinion) his biggest gaffes?.

 

Rebuilding the defence

It?s a long held consensus opinion that Newcastle?s defence is a joke. The fact that it?s bollocks shouldn?t get in the way of Lawro and Hansen having a jolly old laugh at every defensive error we might make. Of course our defence didn?t actually do too bad last year. We conceded less than Tottenham, Blackburn and Bolton anyway, and they all finished well above us. No, our problem was always attacking; we didn?t score enough because we had ?17M in the physio room all year and ?10M doing the grease lightning in the reserves.

On the day he arrived at Newcastle though, Allardyce showed the door to a host of defensive players. His decision was generally greeted with approval. The players made to walk the plank were deemed either surplus to requirements (correctly - Srnicek, and Bernard) or not to be good enough for Newcastle United (Bramble and Moore). Oguchi Onyewu probably fell somewhere between the two. The approval at the time was given in the belief that better replacements would be brought in.

 

Unfortunately the renovation work done on our back four has been a job done on the cheap. Allardyce has replaced like for like, but the new players had none of the benefit of joining an existing unit that?s already gelled. Rather, they need plenty of time just to become as cohesive as the cobbled together ramshackle organisation that we already had. The ?13M spent on five or six defensive players would have been far better spent on bolstering what we already had with two players of real quality. Almost half that money may have gone on Enrique, but that doesn?t alter the fact that I can?t think of a game where we?ve put out a defense that includes 2 players who were acquainted before the season started.

 

In making a rash decision on players he?d seen very little of Allardyce suggested to me that he places little value in his own ability to evaluate a player. His decision was based entirely from an outsiders point of view, in order to cater to the perceived problems at the club rather than the actual problems he should?ve taken the time to assess for himself. This is a fact also backed up by his reliance on OPTA stats, he?s been their biggest supporter for years with his scientific approach, but why does he rely on them so much? It?s all there on the pitch, he watches all the games. He needs to start evaluating the problems he sees with his own eyes, not the ones that other people perceive or that the statistics might suggest.

 

The creative Spark

Newcastle have been dull to watch this year. We?ve been horrible in fact. For thirty minutes in the first game against Bolton I was impressed by the neat play, the enthusiasm and the dynamism of the team. I don?t know what was said at half time, but since then we?ve been as unimaginative as any time under Roeder. This belies the fact that we?re fifth top scorers in the league at the moment. We?ve put more in the net than Chelsea or Man City, and just as many as Liverpool. What have the fans got to complain about?

 

Well we aren?t scoring all these goals with any style or panache. If we were winning it wouldn?t be a problem, but without points or pleasure it?s just self flagellation. It was my main concern when Allardyce arrived, he?s never been known for his attractive style of play and as much as people insisted he was just what was needed to sort us out, I always wondered if the Toon Army had the patience to sit through his boring football. I knew they would when we won, but a short run of defeats without really asking much of the opposition can see all that turn to nothing.

 

So Allardyce?s second big mistake was selling Dyer and Solano. In doing so, he let two of our most creative players go. In replacing them with Geremi and Barton, he indicated exactly what we as supporters had to look forward to. For nine games he got away with it, because we never went three games without a win or two without a point on our way to our ?best start in 10 years? and all of that, but as soon as a few results in a row have gone against him the pressure is on. Just three winless games has been enough to raise hackles, no-one was complaining about Zoggy being played out of position before the Reading game, no-one was that bothered about the long ball being employed to supply two of the more dwarf-like strikers in the league. If Allardyce is going to survive the odd barren run that every team has, he?s going to have to change the style of play (either that or win every other game which you can never guarantee). It shouldn?t even require a great deal of spending in January. If you play our existing midfielders in their natural positions they should be more than capable of passing and moving with pace rather than being bypassed completely by a ball over their heads, which leads me onto his last big mistake?.

 

The backroom staff

It seems that Allardyce came into the club believing that an overhaul was required from top to bottom, as well as the revitalised boardroom that he had nothing to do with we?ve had the changes of personnel listed above. The players that remain have talked about his new methods of varying training times, meal times, emphasis on fitness etc. The years of injury crisis seem to have abated somewhat so it?s only the odd bit of bad luck we have to put up with, rather than the constant flow of sick notes we?d become accustomed to. He?s obviously gone for a big shake up and it?s paid dividends in some places, but in my opinion he?s left the biggest obstacle in place. The one thing that remains from the days of Souness and Roeder is the backroom boys.

 

It?s a difficult one to argue, because so little of what the training staff do is actually visible to anyone off the training field, but very little seems to have changed in that regard, and what has changed has been forced. It?s just a personal doubt, but Terry McDeromott, Lee Clark and Nigel Pearson obviously had little to give to Souness or Roeder in their time at the club. Who can forget the image of Pearson slouched in his seat as if the ghost was well and truly given up when we had nothing to offer against Reading last season. Allardyce seems to have actively pursued change in all of the areas that grab the headlines, but maintained the status quo where there?s little publicity.

 

Steve Round has been the only unforced change that Allardyce has chosen to make in this area, while Terry Mac and Nigel Pearson remain in place despite being part of the backroom team that have twice been deemed unacceptable for our club. What also remains a constant is the unmotivated, lackluster performances from players we all know can do better; they just need the benefit of tactical guidance.

 

It may be unfair of me, the coaches that remain might have been as exasperated as everyone with managers who refused to budge on tactics, but I can?t believe that upon arrival at the club two of Big Sam?s first choices of first team coach were already at the club, why hasn?t he been chasing down his own preferred people? People he knows and respects and could feel assured share his vision which they could impart to the playing staff? In settling for men who?ve adapted to which ever incumbent was currently in charge in order to collect a pay packet I can?t help but think he?s settling for second best.

[globaldiver]

It's not difficult

 

Sam Allardyce did wonders for this club and to gloat in him current situation is very very f?cking sad

 

He's at an injury ravaged club and the fact that people are abusing his credentials because they lost to a supurb Liverpool side is quite frankly sickening

 

But my original question is WHY are people finding so much joy in Newcastle losing?

Because when he left (under very dodgy circumstances, IMO) we said he could go without compo if he didn't take any backroom staff

 

I think he has taken 10 to date and we haven't received any compo.

 

It leaves a sour taste, esp when he supposedly loves this club so much.

 

bd

[Bobcat]

I make no apologies for saying it but I will love it when Allardyce gets sacked, yes he was great for us but we were great for him, he pimped himself for the england job, Allardyce believed his own press, thought he could walk on water, he has proven that he was a good man manager but I can now see he is an average manager who got lucky at Bolton, his style of football was shocking I particularly hated his emphasis on long throws and his persistance of not allowing players to shoot from anywhere outside the box his midfield for the last 12 months lacked energy pace and drive only he could not see that, I think he now regrets his decision to leave bolton but it now looks like we have moved on and put the Allardyce years behind us.

 

I would agree with most of that and i can't wait for the fucker to fail..bitter..possibly... but it was just the way he did it..

from the moment he was in the frame for the England job, he was not 100% focused on bwfc..the last 6 months were awful result wise...and that was pure and simple he thought he could better himself elsewhere...to which i don't have a problem with...but there is a way to do it...

It now makes a refreshing change to have a manager who conducts himself so well in front of the media and choses his words so carefully before speaking...

It makes me laugh to hear people rave on about Alladyce as a great manager...yes he took a club like ours to geat levels..but is it any different to what Moyes is doing or has done??? yet he choses not to thrust himself into the media spotlight...unlike Sam...

I may be one of these to eat my words over Megson...but i like him..i like the way he comes across...i like his passion on the touchline...he has a point to proof...he want's to succeed...but i agree for fat Phil,that will be down to Megason's drive...not fat phil's foresight.

Alladyce...his downfall will be his arrogance...have him back never...we have moved on..you never go back

[tkonion]

But, I don't see the issue

 

He told fatty he was leaving, fatty told him to go then publised it

 

What choice did Allardyce have but to tell the truth?

The problem was he DIDN'T tell the truth. If he had said words to the effect of he had taken us as far as he could or the board couldn't match his ambition there wouldn't have been anything like the same level of bitterness from the fans but to state the break from football b0llock5 was just taking the p1ss (and no I'm not naive, I didn't believe it and of course not many did).

While I appreciate what Sam did for us over the years I think it was time to move on for the sake of both parties. Things had started to go stale and I wasn't dissapointed in his departure, just the manner of it

[bristol_wanderer]

I thought BSA had taken a number of staff with him from here?

 

Perhaps the spat he had with PG regarding PG digging in and making them see out their contracts is causing him problems?

 

One thing I have always thought is that he built up that backroom team here bit by bit over 7 years. He was always going to need a couple of years to repeat that somewhere else, but paradoxically, the time and energy it takes to set the backroom team up with all the assoicated activity, must detract from what he needs to get that couple of years i.e. achieving results and building a bond with the players.

[HR]

Reason Bolton fans want BSA to fail is a simple one. He disrespected the fans and he disrespected the club. The fans that stood by him whilst all the bungs controversy was going on. The club who publicly allowed him to have an interview for the England job with thier blessing. His public spat with Gartiside was infantile bit I believe that had he made promises in not taking staff with him then he broke them. Also there is no disputing he used the clubs money to line the pockets of his son. A lot of Bolton supporters feel like they have been had and I'm one of them, I dont wish him any harm, especially with the mentally deficient supporters up there, he knew what he was letting himself in for.

 

All said and done, I would hate for him to get potted, turn up at Wolves and do the same for them as he did for us, things could be worse...

[SatanGreavsie]

Three words did it for me : "ignorant and naive"

And let's be honest, whether you wish him well or ill, the fact is we were the springboard for a contract at Newcastle that will mean that, even if sacked in his first season, he'll walk away with more money than any of us will see in a lifetime.

[Traf]

Ah, but just like me, you were ignorant and naive when you thought the season ended disppointingly with just 3 wins after Xmas!

[Toon fan]

I don't think he'll be sacked just yet, more than likely he'll be replaced at the end of the season.

 

The majority of the criticism he's received has been harsh but there can be no excuses for yesterday, he genuinely looks like he doesn't know what he's doing, bizarre formations to go with dodgy tactics and formations, I'm not sure if Alan Smith is shagging him or not but how he gets anywhere near the first team is a mystery, he just looks like a manager out of his depth and he can't handle the level of expectation at the club.

 

We don't expect miracles, just a few signs that we're moving in the right direction but he's shown nothing of the sort, he spent ?25 million in the Summer so he can't complain about backing, his problem seems to be that he thinks he's better tactically than he actually is.

 

He looked like being the right man in the Summer when Freddie Shepherd appointed him, mainly because we were skint and the best part of ?100 million in debt, with a billionaire at the club who's wiped of practically all of the debt then expectations have risen, Chris Mort (Newcastle chairman) made the point several times in the Summer that he wasn't their choice as manager so they won't lose any sleep if they give him the boot, Blackburn away and Arsenal home are our next 2 games so the heat will be turned up on him more.

 

Btw what an excellent player Faye is, if Allardyce does go then at least he would have got one thing right in signing him.

[Casino]

where is he playing?

 

i still think his best bolton performance was v arsenal playing like viera

 

very sad to see any player who would run through walls leave my club

[Toon fan]

where is he playing?

 

i still think his best bolton performance was v arsenal playing like viera

 

very sad to see any player who would run through walls leave my club

 

Centre back, he pulled his hamstring against Sunderland so he'll be out for the next few weeks.

 

He really has been solid, wins everything in the air and solid in the tackle, he's easily been the best so far out of the Summer signings, I was sceptical of him when we started playing him at CB because I've always found him to make rash challenges (I remember the penalty he gave away for your lot against Blackburn, perhaps that's influencing my opinion) but we couldn't have asked any more from him, man of the match performances against Everton and Spurs.

[M'crayons]

He was one of my favourites, TF. Lee not rating him was perhaps the single greatest indication to me that he might not be up to it.

 

You wouldn't lose too many matches if you had 9 Fayes, a striker, and Jaaskelainen.

[fatolive]

I think we too easily forget the contribution from Phil Brown to Allardyces success. It's, in some ways, good to see he's doing fairly well at Hull.

enjoyed reading this thead still p*ssed from saturday, agree with widnes but also think browny's contribution is ovelooked that man has bolton runing through him and look out for hull results each week. he is learning his trade to return to bolton one day

[Bobcat]

I'm not sure if Alan Smith is shagging him or not but how he gets anywhere near the first team is a mystery,

 

hmmmm

that rings a bell....

[Mounts Kipper]

I don't think he'll be sacked just yet, more than likely he'll be replaced at the end of the season.

 

The majority of the criticism he's received has been harsh but there can be no excuses for yesterday, he genuinely looks like he doesn't know what he's doing, bizarre formations to go with dodgy tactics and formations, I'm not sure if Alan Smith is shagging him or not but how he gets anywhere near the first team is a mystery, he just looks like a manager out of his depth and he can't handle the level of expectation at the club.

 

We don't expect miracles, just a few signs that we're moving in the right direction but he's shown nothing of the sort, he spent ?25 million in the Summer so he can't complain about backing, his problem seems to be that he thinks he's better tactically than he actually is.

 

He looked like being the right man in the Summer when Freddie Shepherd appointed him, mainly because we were skint and the best part of ?100 million in debt, with a billionaire at the club who's wiped of practically all of the debt then expectations have risen, Chris Mort (Newcastle chairman) made the point several times in the Summer that he wasn't their choice as manager so they won't lose any sleep if they give him the boot, Blackburn away and Arsenal home are our next 2 games so the heat will be turned up on him more.

 

Btw what an excellent player Faye is, if Allardyce does go then at least he would have got one thing right in signing him.

 

It is so reminiscent of his last days as a bolton manager, picking players who were not performing, tactically he has 1 idea and seems that 1 idea he has taken 2 toon, Bolton fans were fed up with our style despite uefa football, he now believes he is a footballing genius that is why he is trying ridiculous formations which are clearly confusing the players,his pig headed arrogance and pride will not allow him to change course, he will be sacked and it will be soon.

[Smiley]

It is so reminiscent of his last days as a bolton manager, picking players who were not performing, tactically he has 1 idea and seems that 1 idea he has taken 2 toon, Bolton fans were fed up with our style despite uefa football, he now believes he is a footballing genius that is why he is trying ridiculous formations which are clearly confusing the players,his pig headed arrogance and pride will not allow him to change course, he will be sacked and it will be soon.

 

But does the man not need to try out different formations, tactics, etc, etc. until he realises what is best for his team? Bolton weren't an instant success when he took over. And if you can recall, that first summer we lost about 6-8 players and he brought in players HE WANTED - so he could mould them into a team to win promotion. That is exactly what he did. Then we built on that. We're still in the top flight - Todd failed to do this twice even though he had far more resources.

 

I don't know what his relationship is with Owen - but to have a crock on the books drawing ?120K per week and not really putting much back in (yes I know the FA are subsidising his latest injury) - cannot be good for any manager or team.

 

Don't forget the run of bad games when almost all of us wanted him out. We were dire. Think we lost 4 home games on the bounce. And a few away. Then we turned the corner and won about 6 straight matches. Luckily, his chairman and supporters stuck by him. We criticised him outside the ground on here - but not in his face like the Toon fans did on Saturday.

 

They aren't true supporters in my eyes to be turning on EVERY manager that doesn't get it right straightaway.

[Burndens Bogs]

It's interesting reading things from a Toon perspective.

[MickyD]

They aren't true supporters in my eyes to be turning on EVERY manager that doesn't get it right straightaway.

 

 

But isn't that the way they do it up in Newcastle? More than a few of their once-great but then under-performing managers have been shown the door as a reaction to crowd disappointment. Woe betide any Newcastle manager who has a bad spell. Sam A had at least one 6-7 match spell each season where we picked up next to nothing in the way of points. Fortunately his [then] good relationship with Gartside meant he wasn't given the boot prematurely. I wouldn't say the same will happen up there.