Politics

[paulhanley]

1 minute ago, mickbrown said:

Is the correct answer. 

It was a shit idea to solve a uniquely Tory problem. 

Kate Hoey, Graham Stringer, Dennis Skinner, Kelvin Hopkins, Roger Godsiff, Frank Field - all Labour leavers. In times gone by Tony Benn, Peter Shore and others were the same. Not to mention thousands of normally Labour voters in the north and the midlands who have consistently voted UKIP and Brexit Party. You're just talking bollocks. Wanting this country to be a free democracy in control of its own destiny is neither left wing or right wing. 

[mickbrown]

9 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Kate Hoey, Graham Stringer, Dennis Skinner, Kelvin Hopkins, Roger Godsiff, Frank Field - all Labour leavers. In times gone by Tony Benn, Peter Shore and others were the same. Not to mention thousands of normally Labour voters in the north and the midlands who have consistently voted UKIP and Brexit Party. You're just talking bollocks. Wanting this country to be a free democracy in control of its own destiny is neither left wing or right wing. 

There was no great desire to leave before Cameron called it and then Leave and Farage et al lied like fuck. 

You’re also rewriting history. UKIP have never won a seat and the Brexit Party didn’t exist before the referendum. 

Now these bollocks of which you speak.......

Edited September 24, 2019 by mickbrown

[Moon boy]

10 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

There was no great desire to leave before Cameron called it and then Leave and Farage et al lied like fuck. 

You’re also rewriting history. UKIP have never won a seat and the Brexit Party didn’t exist before the referendum. 

Now these bollocks of which you speak.......

The Lib Dem’s had it in their manifesto before Cameron, a Referendum 

[mickbrown]

Just now, Moon boy said:

The Lib Dem’s had it in their manifesto before Cameron, a Referendum 

And such was the public’s appetite for it, they romped to victory

[paulhanley]

5 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

There was no great desire to leave before Cameron called it and then Leave and Farage et al lied like fuck. 

You’re also rewriting history. UKIP have never won a seat and the Brexit Party didn’t exist before the referendum. 

Now these bollocks of which you speak.......

There may not have been any great desire to leave from the perspective of your narrow world view but there absolutely was elsewhere in the country. Much of the Conservative Party was and always has been EU-sceptic. People on the left who can spot undemocratic organisations when they see one were also always EU-sceptic - people as far apart on the left side of the political spectrum as Lord Owen and Arthur Scragill united in deep suspicion of the EU.

No political party would offer a truly EU-sceptic ticket and so UKIP rose. Almost 4m votes in the 2015 election and often at Labour's expense. Your statement of the  bleeding obvious that the Brexit Party didn't exist before the referendum did make me chuckle.

The problem here is you and those like you. You cannot and will not accept that the EU-scepticism you wish to portray as marginal is in fact the mainstream. That's why the referendum result came as such a bolt out of the blue to you. My advice to you is get used to it - EU-scepticism is here to stay as long as the EU acts in the way it does. And that will continue to apply once we've left, which we are obliged to do given the 2016 referendum result.

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, paulhanley said:

The referendum was a monumentally bad idea? I don't agree with your basic premise.You need a lesson in modern history there I'm afraid. The reason the referendum occurred was that progressively UKIP in its Farage days were doing better in elections. It got beyond the point at which it could be ignored. Nor was it a phenomenon that ran strictly along party political lines - still doesn't. Where do you imagine we'd be now without a referendum? Do you think EU-scepticism would have magically disappeared? If so that's entirely in keeping with this misguided remain belief that it is possible for a route to be found back to the world as it was pre Nigel Farage and pre UKIP. It is mirage. EU scepticism is here to stay and it is in the mainstream. The EU is never, ever going to reform or renounce its federalist and centralising theology. Something somewhere had to give. It did.

What you're effectively saying is that it was a bad idea to give the people the final say on an issue of the utmost importance. It seems entirely in keeping with the undemocratic nature of remainers. Don't give them a say in case they vote in favour of something we are against. When they do vote in favour of something we are against - seek to ignore it, erase it, cancel it, obfuscate against it. That kind of mindset could be described in many ways .... but democratic is not one of them.

And yet again. We're the patronising ones!

[Winchester White]

UKIP were doing what Farage does well, stoke up division and blame all ills on others.

I heard him tonight on LBC; he frames it as Leavers vs "The Establishment". That is bollocks, the Supreme Court ruled on one aspect of law and specifically stated it had no bearing on our date of departure from the EU.

He plants the seeds usually quite covertly (his appalling immigration poster aside) and folk fall for it.

[kent_white]

And I'll say it again. With the exception of a few people on the fringes - nobody really gave a shit about the EU before the referendum.

[mickbrown]

You brought up the Brexit Party, mate. 

Thanks for your advice. Nice touch. 

[Winchester White]

5 minutes ago, kent_white said:

And I'll say it again. With the exception of a few people on the fringes - nobody really gave a shit about the EU before the referendum.

Correct, the majority didn't care one way or another. Then the rhetoric started and the lies (both sides!) Now we are where we are.

[Ani]

57 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

That's just untrue. Ever increasing numbers of people were becoming gradually more uneasy with EU and its undemocratic ways. It's still happening. You can pretend otherwise - but if you do there are further shocks awaiting for you. The people spoke. They will speak again. 

I agree concerns were growing. However as an issue in an election it was not the deal breaker. 

It has now become virtually the only issue. 

http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-turnout.htm

On average 1 in 3 people who could vote could be bothered such was the importance. Unless you arguing people were so concerned about lack of democracy they did not vote. I did not give a fuck about Europe but voted every time because I felt obliged. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Ani

[mickbrown]

And Boris’s biggest backer lost a fuck load this morning when the pound rose in value after the judgement. 

Shame that, eh?

[Farrelli]

5 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

And Boris’s biggest backer lost a fuck load this morning when the pound rose in value after the judgement. 

Shame that, eh?

Every cloud😀

[Escobarp]

5 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

And Boris’s biggest backer lost a fuck load this morning when the pound rose in value after the judgement. 

Shame that, eh?

Same pound that’s currently lower than last Friday? Or a different pound? Huge impact it’s had

shame that 

[mickbrown]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Same pound that’s currently lower than last Friday? Or a different pound? Huge impact it’s had

shame that 

Had a huge impact on Boris’s mate 👍 

Shame that, eh? I’m sure you’ll agree. 

[Escobarp]

You’ve insight into his businesses then i assume?

thought not

And it’s really not a massive spike  it’s truly truly not so suspect the effects are minimal and will reverse back very shortly  save this message in your mind and see if I’m right or not 👍🏼

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Escobarp

[mickbrown]

4 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

You’ve insight into his businesses then i assume?

thought not

And it’s really not a massive spike  it’s truly truly not so suspect the effects are minimal and will reverse back very shortly  save this message in your mind and see if I’m right or not 👍🏼

 

I know he’s lost shitloads. That’ll do for me. He’s taken the wrong position this time. 

To be fair to the wanker he made a fuck load when the referendum went his way. 

 

[TM Trotter]

1 hour ago, paulhanley said:

It doesn't change the referendum result. 

I'm sure you get irritated every time you are reminded of that simple fact.

So here it is again. Just to add extra piquancy ... its from the BBC website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

You can suck it up, inhale it, chew it or do what you want with it. It isn't changing. We voted to leave the EU.

Amazing insight. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

37 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

UKIP were doing what Farage does well, stoke up division and blame all ills on others.

I heard him tonight on LBC; he frames it as Leavers vs "The Establishment". That is bollocks, the Supreme Court ruled on one aspect of law and specifically stated it had no bearing on our date of departure from the EU.

He plants the seeds usually quite covertly (his appalling immigration poster aside) and folk fall for it.

Farage has been the most overt leave proponent of them all.

He founded a party on that basis, apparently with little else to offer, but it still grew to such an extent that the mainstream parties got worried.

Mick's suggestion it is a Tory problem is hugely naïve. Kinell the leave vote garnered much of its support from traditional labour heartlands.

Cameron was in power at the time, but be honest had labour been in power and witnessed ukip threat to their seats, they may well have adopted the same course of action. They voted to have a referendum remember.

Unfortunately, this thing does now seem to be dividing along party lines, which could well see some unusual results whenever the election happens.

 

[leigh white]

I want to be the 1000 poster on this subject.

[kent_white]

4 minutes ago, leigh white said:

I want to be the 1000 poster on this subject.

So do I

[Winchester White]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Farage has been the most overt leave proponent of them all.

He founded a party on that basis, apparently with little else to offer, but it still grew to such an extent that the mainstream parties got worried.

Mick's suggestion it is a Tory problem is hugely naïve. Kinell the leave vote garnered much of its support from traditional labour heartlands.

Cameron was in power at the time, but be honest had labour been in power and witnessed ukip threat to their seats, they may well have adopted the same course of action. They voted to have a referendum remember.

Unfortunately, this thing does now seem to be dividing along party lines, which could well see some unusual results whenever the election happens.

 

You have a point but this transcends party lines which is why Labour of all the parties is even more of a wreck than the Tories

[Escobarp]

Leave it to Miami or st

Edited September 24, 2019 by Escobarp

[Tonge moor green jacket]

No, I'd like a babycham

[Jol_BWFC]

5 minutes ago, leigh white said:

I want to be the 1000 poster on this subject.

Unlucky.