Politics

[MalcolmW]

23 minutes ago, leigh white said:

I think that cheese women could stand again, and totally bankrupt the country good and proper.

I'm certainly not defending Truss but ...

When she became Foreign Sec the FO staff told her that the Nazarin woman could not be released. Several previous holders of the job had failed, etc, etc.

She made it her number one priority and succeeded by overriding CS advice.

It was said to be costly but in fact the money had already been paid into an escrow account and all that was short was the ever increasing amount of interest.

Come the top job and she believed she could again ignore advisers. But the government owes money and has to carry the lenders with it to succeed. She didn't, and the money markets went wild.

Moreover as a supposed worshipper of MT she should have noticed that that leader held her party together during a difficult first term (saved only by the Falklands fiasco), and then won a clear mandate in 1983.

[leigh white]

45 minutes ago, MalcolmW said:

I'm certainly not defending Truss but ...

When she became Foreign Sec the FO staff told her that the Nazarin woman could not be released. Several previous holders of the job had failed, etc, etc.

She made it her number one priority and succeeded by overriding CS advice.

It was said to be costly but in fact the money had already been paid into an escrow account and all that was short was the ever increasing amount of interest.

Come the top job and she believed she could again ignore advisers. But the government owes money and has to carry the lenders with it to succeed. She didn't, and the money markets went wild.

Moreover as a supposed worshipper of MT she should have noticed that that leader held her party together during a difficult first term (saved only by the Falklands fiasco), and then won a clear mandate in 1983.

Thatcher was so lucky when the Falklands war kicked off, the country was in utter chaos at the time and she would have been booted out but for that dick Galtieri because his popularity in Argentina was so poor.

Edited February 19, 2023 by leigh white

[Nowack]

2 hours ago, leigh white said:

Thatcher was so lucky when the Falklands war kicked off, the country was in utter chaos at the time and she would have been booted out but for that dick Galtieri because his popularity in Argentina was so poor.

North Sea Oil & Gas was by far the luckiest aspect of Thatchers reign. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Nowack
Cannot spell gas.

[leigh white]

2 minutes ago, Nowack said:

North Sea Oil & Gas was by far the luckiest aspect of Thatchers reign. 

Paid for the folk she unemployed with her distruction of the country, the fucking hag.

[Casino]

She was also helped by that dick scargill being thick as two short planks

[leigh white]

14 minutes ago, Casino said:

She was also helped by that dick scargill being thick as two short planks

He was proved correct in his mine closures in 84, Thatcher wanted to destroy the NUM and she would have got Russians over to put us down, look at your energy bills now, you sad cunt.

Edited February 19, 2023 by leigh white

[Casino]

Stop wriggling and get in the net

[Farrelli]

4 hours ago, MalcolmW said:

I'm certainly not defending Truss but ...

 

You then proceed to.  Perhaps she should have stayed as FS and proved herself because PM was way too big for her. She also surrounded herself with inept ministers like Kwarteng and Braverman so I would suggest she got what she deserved. Terrible judgment and decision making.

[bolty58]

5 hours ago, Casino said:

Right

Who thinks the tories will ditch sunak before the election to be replaced by bozo

I think its a very good bet

Hope so. Improves their chances immeasurably.

[bolty58]

1 hour ago, leigh white said:

He was proved correct in his mine closures in 84, Thatcher wanted to destroy the NUM and she would have got Russians over to put us down, look at your energy bills now, you sad cunt.

...and did. Comrade Combover was well and truly fucked off.

[Mounts Kipper]

9 hours ago, leigh white said:

He was proved correct in his mine closures in 84, Thatcher wanted to destroy the NUM and she would have got Russians over to put us down, look at your energy bills now, you sad cunt.

We should never have closed all the mines, however it became a political and ideological battle and there was only going to be one winner… our country is a sadder place without the coal mines and the community spirit that mining engendered… the damage done to those communities in some of the former mining towns is still evident today.  

[Wanderlust]

32 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We should never have closed all the mines, however it became a political and ideological battle and there was only going to be one winner… our country is a sadder place without the coal mines and the community spirit that mining engendered… the damage done to those communities in some of the former mining towns is still evident today.  

When the pits closed, the government spent billions on retraining miners, income support and other benefits and trying to repair some of the damage caused by the social cost. The relationship with the police and government were never fully repaired in some areas and the cumulative financial cost to the country was massive, which is what happens when you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

People forget that the mining industry was not just about coalface workers but highly trained skilled engineers, drivers, H&S experts, medical staff, electricians, geologists, administrators etc as well and they could have been spun out into new businesses and the transferable skills could have been spread into other sectors over time instead of creating a glut of unemployment and social unrest.

It's true that the miners were a strong union who had secured fairly high wages for their members (albeit commensurate with working conditions and risk) - and therefore british coal had become comparatively expensive to imported Russian and Polish coal however...if they'd started the process of gradually closing and repurposing the least productive pits and preparing miners for alternative work whilst investing in the technologies and training required to make the viable pits more efficient and cost-effective, the overall financial and social cost would have been minimised and spread over a much longer period.

But instead of professionally managing the industry's modernisation, contraction and redeployment of skills Thatcher was making a political point so just went for the entire sector at one point in time - and that was amateurish, vindictive and damaging to the UK. She was crap at business and unfortunately for everyone, the business she was in was UK PLC.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Wanderlust

[Mounts Kipper]

19 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

When the pits closed, the government spent billions on retraining miners, income support and other benefits and trying to repair some of the damage caused by the social cost. The relationship with the police and government were never fully repaired in some areas and the cumulative financial cost to the country was massive, which is what happens when you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

People forget that the mining industry was not just about coalface workers but highly trained skilled engineers, drivers, H&S experts, medical staff, electricians, geologists, administrators etc as well and they could have been spun out into new businesses and the transferable skills could have been spread into other sectors over time instead of creating a glut of unemployment and social unrest.

It's true that the miners were a strong union who had secured fairly high wages for their members (albeit commensurate with working conditions and risk) - and therefore british coal had become comparatively expensive to imported Russian and Polish coal however...if they'd started the process of gradually closing and repurposing the least productive pits and preparing miners for alternative work whilst investing in the technologies and training required to make the viable pits more efficient and cost-effective, the overall financial and social cost would have been minimised and spread over a much longer period.

But instead of professionally managing the industry's modernisation, contraction and redeployment of skills Thatcher was making a political point so just went for the entire sector at one point in time - and that was amateurish, vindictive and damaging to the UK. She was crap at business and unfortunately for everyone, the business she was in was UK PLC.

I do agree on most of that and well put, the opposing view would be was scargill ever going to agree to modernising, scaling down the number of pits required and tens of thousands of job losses over a number of years, probably not, sadly common sense often isn’t used when it’s an ideological coming together. Without a doubt the UK is worse off in many ways now the mines have virtually all shut. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Mounts Kipper

[Farrelli]

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/07/uk-first-new-coalmine-for-30-years-gets-go-ahead-in-cumbria
 

The government has approved a new coal mine in Cumbria so maybe coal is the future again

Edited February 20, 2023 by Farrelli

[Wanderlust]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I do agree on most of that and well put, the opposing view would be was scargill ever going to agree to modernising, scaling down the number of pits required and tens of thousands of job losses over a number of years, probably not, sadly common sense often isn’t used when it’s an ideological coming together. Without a doubt the UK is worse off in many ways now the mines have virtually all shut. 

Scargill was an idiot though. He was so busy pontificating that he failed to hold a NUM strike ballot so the strike was ruled illegal and that's when the conflict with the police began.

[little whitt]

2 hours ago, Farrelli said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/07/uk-first-new-coalmine-for-30-years-gets-go-ahead-in-cumbria
 

The government has approved a new coal mine in Cumbria so maybe coal is the future again

With all the HS shit now 

i cant See them letting People 

Work down a Mine now

Look how Leigh White turned out 

[Whitesince63]

18 hours ago, leigh white said:

Paid for the folk she unemployed with her distruction of the country, the fucking hag.

Destruction of the country you moron. She saved the country which was riddled with strikes and unions who thought they ran everything. What I wouldn’t give to have her back now to get rid of this atrocious imitation Tory party of wets and wokists.

[Whitesince63]

8 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I do agree on most of that and well put, the opposing view would be was scargill ever going to agree to modernising, scaling down the number of pits required and tens of thousands of job losses over a number of years, probably not, sadly common sense often isn’t used when it’s an ideological coming together. Without a doubt the UK is worse off in many ways now the mines have virtually all shut. 

Scargill was never going to concede anything. The fact is Labour closed more pits than Thatcher did and the pit closure plan was agreed with Joe Gormley way before Scargill took over the Union. The strike forced the closures earlier than they should have certainly but in all honesty, who was going to buy the coal we were producing? Almost everyone had converted to gas including industry and the big users like steel and rail were declining. I lived in Rotherham during the strike, close to the Silverwood pit, one of the most productive in the Yorkshire coal field. It was a terrible time, neighbours, even families split apart. Local businesses suffered badly because miners earned good money and spent it. There was a community that isn’t there today. You can blame Thatcher if you like but it was Scargill that destroyed the coal industry, which as lusty says, could have been reduced and modernised with some common sense and forward thinking.

[leigh white]

1 hour ago, Whitesince63 said:

Destruction of the country you moron. She saved the country which was riddled with strikes and unions who thought they ran everything. What I wouldn’t give to have her back now to get rid of this atrocious imitation Tory party of wets and wokists.

Talking bollocks, the men who worked in the mines walked out without Scargill telling them after Thatcher announced the closures, get your facts right. No wonder this country is fucked with braindead folk.

[Winchester White]

There is a very odd rose tinted view of Maggie from many quarters. She did some good and some bad (how much of each is clearly subjective) but some see her like some sort of messiah.

With hindsight she made absolute clangers on an epic scale yet some folk instead pap on about Gordon Brown selling gold at a poor price.

[leigh white]

15 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

There is a very odd rose tinted view of Maggie from many quarters. She did some good and some bad (how much of each is clearly subjective) but some see her like some sort of messiah.

With hindsight she made absolute clangers on an epic scale yet some folk instead pap on about Gordon Brown selling gold at a poor price.

I don't think that poll tax was thought out very well for her.

[Farrelli]

Can’t wait for the NI protocol to be sorted later this week, it is a piece of cake getting brexit done (again)! 💣

[bolty58]

6 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Destruction of the country you moron. She saved the country which was riddled with strikes and unions who thought they ran everything. What I wouldn’t give to have her back now to get rid of this atrocious imitation Tory party of wets and wokists.

Is the correct response. Spot on sir.

[bolty58]

3 hours ago, Winchester White said:

There is a very odd rose tinted view of Maggie from many quarters. She did some good and some bad (how much of each is clearly subjective) but some see her like some sort of messiah.

With hindsight she made absolute clangers on an epic scale yet some folk instead pap on about Gordon Brown selling gold at a poor price.

Balderdash. The last Prime Minister with true backbone. Frightened of nowt.

As W63 said, what I wouldn't give to see her back at the helm at her peak. Formidable.

Putin would be hiding in a dacha somewhere.

[Wanderlust]

2 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Balderdash. The last Prime Minister with true backbone. Frightened of nowt.

 

...apart from the Unions, German reunification, pandas, losing power, free milk, unpopularity, the Queen and being found out  - which she eventually was. These days, folk would just laugh at her and nobody would think twice of putting her back in her box.

That said, her box has probably long since rotted given all the people that have pissed on it since she was buried six feet nearer her maker.