Politics

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It is utter desperation from a bedraggled rag tag bunch of idiots, common sense has gone out of the widow

Seems you're very slow on the uptake. This is the same bunch of blatantly obvious charlatans you trusted when you voted Leave...

[Not in Crawley]

18 minutes ago, Sweep said:

But we'd still be better with this lot staying in charge, rather than let Labour in, ask @bolty58 he'll confirm 😉

I'm afraid I can't. I'm the original Dirty One 😁

He never got over me taking the piss out of his trifle and beach towel St George's Day celebration.

[Not in Crawley]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Seems you're very slow on the uptake. This is the same bunch of blatantly obvious charlatans you trusted when you voted Leave...

As I say, Mounts is a true believer in Brexit. Heads of the Faith may come and go, but whilst he waits for the smoke to billow from the conclave the belief remains true.

[Sweep]

26 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

As I say, Mounts is a true believer in Brexit. 

I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that, as long as you're happy to see both sides. Even King of the Gammons, Farage, is happy to admit Brexit isn't delivering, because those trusted to enact it, have royally fucked it up.

We voted leave, if we'd got on with it and not fucked it up, it might not have been so bad. You can blame "remoaners" and sinister slags all you want, with an 80+ seat majority, and a promised oven ready deal, Johnson has/had no excuse for not delivering. Yet, people will still blame anybody but the Government

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that, as long as you're happy to see both sides. Even King of the Gammons, Farage, is happy to admit Brexit isn't delivering, because those trusted to enact it, have royally fucked it up.

We voted leave, if we'd got on with it and not fucked it up, it might not have been so bad. You can blame "remoaners" and sinister slags all you want, with an 80+ seat majority, and a promised oven ready deal, Johnson has/had no excuse for not delivering. Yet, people will still blame anybody but the Government

The thing is, when you ask those people "what should/could we have done differently to make Brexit a success?", they have no answers.

[Casino]

Id like somebody to follow the money

Be interesting where that 290 million actually ends up

[Not in Crawley]

2 minutes ago, Cheese said:

The thing is, when you ask those people "what should/could we have done differently to make Brexit a success?", they have no answers.

Yes, that's the point here - because they sold Brexit on wish fullfilment rather than actual facts no one knows what a 'successful' Brexit looks like, and those who still believe in it differ on what the outcomes should/could be. That's why its a belief, its blind faith in something not tangible and in the face of all other evidence to the contrary.

Small crumbs of comfort in comparision graphs with other nations is like peddling the God-of-the-gaps argument. If there is any failing by the EU, its filled in with acts of Brexit benefits and therefore proof that Brexit is good for the nation and therefore its irrefutable.

[Sweep]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

The thing is, when you ask those people "what should/could we have done differently to make Brexit a success?", they have no answers.

a good point  - a start might have been making sure that the likes of Johnson and that massive cunt David Davis, got nowhere near any sort of negotiation with the EU

 

The real issue is that those in power didn't think for one minute that we'd vote to leave, and then once we did decide we'd leave we hoped that others would follow suit, as that would give us a bit more leverage.........sadly, even though the visionaries advised us that the likes if France, Italy and The Netherlands would follow us out of the EU and it would collapse like a deck of cards, that won't be happening anytime soon

 

[Sweep]

10 minutes ago, Cheese said:

The thing is, when you ask those people "what should/could we have done differently to make Brexit a success?", they have no answers.

Also, it doesn't have to be a success, as we've now got our Sovereignty back (which of course, we always had anyway) and we can now control our own borders and keep the number of migrants down 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

Also, it doesn't have to be a success, as we've now got our Sovereignty back (which of course, we always had anyway) and we can now control our own borders and keep the number of migrants down 

Indeed. And those who claimed they were "happy to suffer" as long as they got their 'Sovereignty' now fight tooth and nail against any evidence that the country is worse off, whilst simultaneously saying "Brexit hasn't been done properly". It must be mentally exhausting.

[Not in Crawley]

17 minutes ago, Sweep said:

a good point  - a start might have been making sure that the likes of Johnson and that massive cunt David Davis, got nowhere near any sort of negotiation with the EU

 

The real issue is that those in power didn't think for one minute that we'd vote to leave, and then once we did decide we'd leave we hoped that others would follow suit, as that would give us a bit more leverage.........sadly, even though the visionaries advised us that the likes if France, Italy and The Netherlands would follow us out of the EU and it would collapse like a deck of cards, that won't be happening anytime soon

 

I think the UK leaving has actually boosted support for the EU in every member state - even in places like Sweden and Italy who are the most suspicious of membership generally

However, in balance, support for further intergration has fallen slightly.

So people want to remain in for the whole economic benefits but want some reform and are not looking for some sort of 'one nation' ie pretty sensible.

They've also seen what has/is happening here and quite sensibly the majority don't want any part of it.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Not in Crawley

[Not in Crawley]

11 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Indeed. And those who claimed they were "happy to suffer" as long as they got their 'Sovereignty' now fight tooth and nail against any evidence that the country is worse off, whilst simultaneously saying "Brexit hasn't been done properly". It must be mentally exhausting.

You just gotta have

 

[gonzo]

We just dont have a back bone to carry it off as a nation.

The stiff upper lip bullshit is one big myth that died after WW2.

From the exploited welfare state to the self serving corrupt bastards running the shop. 

Id love us to make a proper stand against France and The EU about the boats but we won't.

Division wins. Corruption reins.

And our people become selfish and disillusioned. The system is fucked.

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

You just gotta have

 

You're right actually. It's probably far less mentally exhausting than actually thinking about things.

[Cheese]

Just now, gonzo said:

We just dont have a back bone to carry it off as a nation.

The stiff upper lip bullshit is one big myth that died after WW2.

From the exploited welfare state to the self serving corrupt bastards running the shop. 

Id love us to make a proper stand against France and The EU about the boats but we won't.

Division wins. Corruption reins.

And our people become selfish and disillusioned. The system is fucked.

What do you mean by 'make a stand against France and the EU about the boats'? What would that entail?

[Sweep]

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

What do you mean by 'make a stand against France and the EU about the boats'? What would that entail?

Man eating sharks, sea mines, stealth bombers, Tommy Robinson, TVRs and big walls  - that'd show them we mean business.

[Not in Crawley]

3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

We just dont have a back bone to carry it off as a nation.

The stiff upper lip bullshit is one big myth that died after WW2.

From the exploited welfare state to the self serving corrupt bastards running the shop. 

Id love us to make a proper stand against France and The EU about the boats but we won't.

Division wins. Corruption reins.

And our people become selfish and disillusioned. The system is fucked.

We need more partnership working, not less. You are right about something dying since WW2 and that's the post-war agreement of European partnerships. As Churchill said in 1946 about the need to form a United States of Europe (I believe he referred to the nascent EU as that - just had a quick look and he did in his Zurich speech) He was the first leader in the West to suggest this process. Churchillian.

I am now going to say something that will astonish you. The first step in the re-creation of the European family must be a partnership between France and Germany. In this way only can France recover the moral and cultural leadership of Europe.There can be no revival of Europe without a spiritually great France and a spiritually great Germany. The structure of the United States of Europe will be such as to make the material strength of a single State less important. Small nations will count as much as large ones and gain their honour by a contribution to the common cause. The ancient States and principalities of Germany, freely joined for mutual convenience in a federal system, might take their individual places among the United States of Europe.

[gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

What do you mean by 'make a stand against France and the EU about the boats'? What would that entail?

Stop letting criminal gangs traffic people through your country and putting them on boats on your beaches and allowing your coastguards to let them float off in to the horizon?

Just a start like.

 

[Not in Crawley]

13 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You're right actually. It's probably far less mentally exhausting than actually thinking about things.

Course it is, means you can dismiss anything you don't like and don't have to look further than the end of your own nose.

Saw this quote yesterday in The Big Short, made me chuckle 'Truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry.'

Anyway, its my day off and like a sad sack i'm pissing around on here rather than putting the outdoor xmas lights up - better hop to it!

[freds dad]

53 minutes ago, Casino said:

Id like somebody to follow the money

Be interesting where that 290 million actually ends up

Switzerland or Cayman Islands?

[Cheese]

14 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Stop letting criminal gangs traffic people through your country and putting them on boats on your beaches and allowing your coastguards to let them float off in to the horizon?

Just a start like.

How is that us 'taking a stand'? That's just ignoring reality and asking them to do something they're already doing.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-coastguard-records-30-drop-small-boat-departures-via-english-channel-2023-12-07/

The number of people departing from French shores to cross the English Channel by boat has dropped this year as French security forces have ramped up land interceptions of convoys trying to reach the coast and fewer Albanians are making their way to Britain, according to the French coastguard and UK Home Office.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Cheese

[gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Cheese said:

How is that us 'taking a stand'? That's just ignoring reality and asking them to do something they're already doing.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-coastguard-records-30-drop-small-boat-departures-via-english-channel-2023-12-07/

The number of people departing from French shores to cross the English Channel by boat has dropped this year as French security forces have ramped up land interceptions of convoys trying to reach the coast and fewer Albanians are making their way to Britain, according to the French coastguard and UK Home Office.

You ok with the current numbers coming here then?

I think you're trying to make an argument out of something that isn't there.

The numbers are at an all time high and our relations with France at an all time low.

When I say take a stand I dont mean threaten them with tanks. I mean be a bit more robust and stop giving them millions to do something they are quite clearly struggling to do.

We removed our right to sort things amicably by throwing our seat at the top table away. You think France are in any way inclined to stop boats leaving their shores?

If they were going the other way I know we wouldnt be and nobody would give a fuck.

[Cheese]

5 minutes ago, gonzo said:

You ok with the current numbers coming here then?

I think you're trying to make an argument out of something that isn't there.

The numbers are at an all time high and our relations with France at an all time low.

When I say take a stand I dont mean threaten them with tanks. I mean be a bit more robust and stop giving them millions to do something they are quite clearly struggling to do.

We removed our right to sort things amicably by throwing our seat at the top table away. You think France are in any way inclined to stop boats leaving their shores?

If they were going the other way I know we wouldnt be and nobody would give a fuck.

I'm not trying to make an argument. I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say we should "take a stand against France and the EU". In what way? How can we be 'a bit more robust'? If you mean something like towing the boats back, or sinking them, just say it!

Yes, I think France are inclined to stop boats leaving their shores, because they are stopping boats leaving their shores.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Cheese

[Not in Crawley]

Cheese isn't wrong in the slightest

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20221114-france-uk-to-sign-deal-tackling-illegal-immigration-across-channel

Remember - it was done by Braverman even!

We paid 72 million euros for the priviledge, because, as we know getting bi-lateral agreements with our European neighbours is much more difficult since...well you know the rest

Partnerships and closer ties are the key to the solution. Trouble is we made it all the more difficult for ourselves because of...

Reet, those pissing lights.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Not in Crawley
Got the currency wrong

[wanderer1984]

34 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Course it is, means you can dismiss anything you don't like and don't have to look further than the end of your own nose.

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