Politics

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

FFs I’ve literally just said a few posts back the guys with goggles. Fucks knows what religion that would be. 
 
the majority is common sense. If a gorilla is walking into a pub with Hitler, a Xmas tree and a banana then it’s obvious he’s at a fancy dress. 
 

If 4 people are walking into a bank or a shopping centre with their faces covered then they should be stopped and told to remove them.

Has cheese logged into your account? 

No - but if this is how you have debates with him, it's no wonder you both end up getting so wound up 😁😉

I'm still none the wiser about what it is you're actually asking for.

The way you've articulated it so far - you seem to be saying that you want any sort of face covering banned - irrespective of how much of someones face it covers up - if that face covering would make it difficult for the police to identify you in a public place if you commited a crime - but not in the case of someone wearing fancy dress - and you want the council cig people to enforce it - but with them also being allowed to apply 'common sense'. 

It's not exactly an easy policy to get your head around. Which was my point all along. Some legislation isn't worth it for the limited benefit (if any) it will bring. 

In my opinion - we've much bigger fish to fry and problems to solve. This would just be (yet another) massively decisive problem for the police to implement. 

Appreciate we're probably not going to find any common ground here. 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

I'd want it banning for it's oppressive and divisionary nature and nothing else.

Bringing fancy dress and blokes in motorcycle helmets in to is for the birds.

Nobody wants to see their face anyway. It just looks fucking awful, it makes them even more of a secular bunch than they are already and it represents stone age beliefs that have should be no part of this country or any civilised western society.

So you'd have a problem with this?

[Farrelli]

10 minutes ago, royal white said:

And there is a gain. “Jimmy you get him smoking I’ll get the person (not sure of sex as I can’t see them) with the face covering” 

 

Whos this vast majority that would want someone fined over dropping a cig butt over someone covering their face. Or have you just made it up? 

Sure because of course cig butts are the only things people litter the streets with🤣 You are deluded. Look up fly tipping which is a massive problem and is very hard to catch those responsible. I’d much prefer more investment in that thanks.

[kent_white]

4 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I'd want it banning for it's oppressive and divisionary nature and nothing else.

Bringing fancy dress and blokes in motorcycle helmets in to is for the birds.

Nobody wants to see their face anyway. It just looks fucking awful, it makes them even more of a secular bunch than they are already and it represents stone age beliefs that have should be no part of this country or any civilised western society.

 

Fine - but you also said it should apply to everybody equally didn't you? 

Because I'm not in agreement that legislation should cover one particular section of society but not others. And I'm uncomfortable with the state telling anybody what they can and can't wear. 

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, kent_white said:

No - but if this is how you have debates with him, it's no wonder you both end up getting so wound up 😁😉

I'm still none the wiser about what it is you're actually asking for.

The way you've articulated it so far - you seem to be saying that you want any sort of face covering banned - irrespective of how much of someones face it covers up - if that face covering would make it difficult for the police to identify you in a public place if you commited a crime - but not in the case of someone wearing fancy dress - and you want the council cig people to enforce it - but with them also being allowed to apply 'common sense'. 

It's not exactly an easy policy to get your head around. Which was my point all along. Some legislation isn't worth it for the limited benefit (if any) it will bring. 

In my opinion - we've much bigger fish to fry and problems to solve. This would just be (yet another) massively decisive problem for the police to implement. 

Appreciate we're probably not going to find any common ground here. 

Correct. Only Reform cranks think this is a big public concern.

[royal white]

Just now, Farrelli said:

Sure because of course cig butts are the only things people litter the streets with🤣 You are deluded. Look up fly tipping which is a massive problem and is very hard to catch those responsible. I’d much prefer more investment in that thanks.

I don’t think flu tippers are operating around town centres and banks? I get it though you think it’s a big ask to ask someone to broaden their job description and add something to it. Fuckinel 🙄🙄

[royal white]

Just now, Farrelli said:

Correct. Only Reform cranks think this is a big public concern.

Yes because reform are in power in god knows how many other counties 🙄

[paulhanley]

34 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

I think you are being unrealistic. Councils are cutting back as they are skint.  They don’t need another thing to control. Police can’t deal with present crime levels without adding another. 

Councils might be at least a little less skint if they focused entirely on the services they were created to statutorily provide rather than on "diversity and inclusion" and similar wokery. The sooner they realise that they serve the people and not the other way around the more their budgets will become focused on what they're supposed to be focused on.

And before you get all uppity I work in local government and form my opinions first hand.

[Farrelli]

Just now, paulhanley said:

Councils might be at least a little less skint if they focused entirely on the services they were created to statutorily provide rather than on "diversity and inclusion" and similar wokery. The sooner they realise that they serve the people and not the other way around the more their budgets will become focused on what they're supposed to be focused on.

And before you get all uppity I work in local government and form my opinions first hand.

Dear god. 

[royal white]

6 minutes ago, kent_white said:

No - but if this is how you have debates with him, it's no wonder you both end up getting so wound up 😁😉

I'm still none the wiser about what it is you're actually asking for.

The way you've articulated it so far - you seem to be saying that you want any sort of face covering banned - irrespective of how much of someones face it covers up - if that face covering would make it difficult for the police to identify you in a public place if you commited a crime - but not in the case of someone wearing fancy dress - and you want the council cig people to enforce it - but with them also being allowed to apply 'common sense'. 

It's not exactly an easy policy to get your head around. Which was my point all along. Some legislation isn't worth it for the limited benefit (if any) it will bring. 

In my opinion - we've much bigger fish to fry and problems to solve. This would just be (yet another) massively decisive problem for the police to implement. 

Appreciate we're probably not going to find any common ground here. 

I mentioned CEO as an option. I said right at the start that there’s a  number other countries who have introduced this law and many others talking about it. They would be the best people to ask. 

[Farrelli]

5 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Fine - but you also said it should apply to everybody equally didn't you? 

Because I'm not in agreement that legislation should cover one particular section of society but not others. And I'm uncomfortable with the state telling anybody what they can and can't wear. 

Leave em to it. Absolute cranks🤣

[royal white]

Why we are on this discussion how is some shops will ask customers to take off their helmet, caps, or pull down their hoods but won’t tell someone wearing a burka to remove that? 

[DazBob]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

Why we are on this discussion how is some shops will ask customers to take off their helmet, caps, or pull down their hoods but won’t tell someone wearing a burka to remove that? 

Maybe more robberies happen from folk wearing helmets, caps and hoods than those wearing burkas?

[gonzo]

15 minutes ago, Cheese said:

So you'd have a problem with this?

Couldn't give a fuck. I've never seen anyone wandering down the high street dressed like that.

 

You don't see them flopping about in sandcastle like a bunch of weirdos do you.

They just look ridiculous.

 

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Maybe more robberies happen from folk wearing helmets, caps and hoods than those wearing burkas?

If you think thats the reason then you’re more stupid than I thought. 

[gonzo]

14 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Correct. Only Reform cranks think this is a big public concern.

It was big enough of a concern in other countries to get banned.

Again you dispel stuff like this as reform crank stuff. 

The same reform who are up on the tracks now as the main opposition.

Stuff like this is an issue for people, same as the boats same ad anything that swings votes.

It's an issue whether you think it is or not.

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Couldn't give a fuck. I've never seen anyone wandering down the high street dressed like that.

You don't see them flopping about in sandcastle like a bunch of weirdos do you.

They just look ridiculous.

You clearly do give a fuck. And if you haven't seen anyone "wandering down the high street dressed like that", what the fuck are you upset about?

[kent_white]

5 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Maybe more robberies happen from folk wearing helmets, caps and hoods than those wearing burkas?

There have been a couple according to my mate Claude 😁

But you're right - it doesn't appear to be widespread. And it's never actually been a woman who was wearing one for religious reasons. 

[gonzo]

20 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Fine - but you also said it should apply to everybody equally didn't you? 

Because I'm not in agreement that legislation should cover one particular section of society but not others. And I'm uncomfortable with the state telling anybody what they can and can't wear. 

But the other face coverings you've mentioned elsewhere aren't oppressive and divisional are they.

If there are similar ones to burkas then yeah ban them too.

 

[gonzo]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

You clearly do give a fuck. And if you haven't seen anyone "wandering down the high street dressed like that", what the fuck are you upset about?

I meant like in the picture you posted.

How many nuns do you see dressed like that in Neslon town centre?

If there was, get them banned too.

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

23 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Fine - but you also said it should apply to everybody equally didn't you? 

Because I'm not in agreement that legislation should cover one particular section of society but not others. And I'm uncomfortable with the state telling anybody what they can and can't wear. 

I'd not argue in favour of a burqa ban, but if someone - whoever they are - wears one each and every time they're in public it's a literal barrier to integrating into and participating fully in society

The same is not true for eg. someone wearing a gorilla outfit on a stag do or someone wearing a motorcycle helmet when riding a motorcycle

It's in that sense that they're different

But the bigger problem, for me, is the thought process behind their wearing of one and the men who often enforce their use 

[Cheese]

5 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I meant like in the picture you posted.

How many nuns do you see dressed like that in Neslon town centre?

If there was, get them banned too.

No idea where Neslon town centre is. How many Muslim women do you see dressed like that?

[royal white]

Just now, Cheese said:

No idea where Neslon town centre is. How many Muslim women do you see dressed like that?

I’d guess its in Nelson 

[kent_white]

5 minutes ago, gonzo said:

But the other face coverings you've mentioned elsewhere aren't oppressive and divisional are they.

If there are similar ones to burkas then yeah ban them too.

 

So that means you do just want to target Muslim women in particular? Which is the opposite of what I thought you were saying the other day (which I agreed with). IE - that it would have to apply to everyone across the board (like chavs wearing face coverings for example). Apologies if that wasn't you btw. I had it in my head that it was. 

Like I said - of someone can come up with a workable idea - that applies to everybody mostly equally then I would consider it on its merits. If it's just targeting Muslim women - I think it's more problematic. 

And I take your point about it possibly being used as a tool of oppression - but I'd need to do a lot more reading about what the evidence says about why Muslim women in the UK say they wear a Burka. I imagine there are a sizeable number who wear one out of choice. 

We'd be talking about socially engineering them away from having that choice in this instance. 

[kent_white]

7 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'd not argue in favour of a burqa ban, but if someone - whoever they are - wears one each and every time they're in public it's a literal barrier to integrating into and participating fully in society

The same is not true for eg. someone wearing a gorilla outfit on a stag do or someone wearing a motorcycle helmet when riding a motorcycle

It's in that sense that they're different

But the bigger problem, for me, is the thought process behind their wearing of one and the men who often enforce their use 

Yep - me too - but I also admit that I don't really understand it as a cultural practice enough to make a decision about whether it's chosen or enforced.