Salford Trotter Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Thankfully?? Really!! These idiots are the ones stopping us getting a proper deal, politicians who’ve never negotiated anything seem to be the big problem here. I’m rapidly moving to the conclusion we need a GE to get this through to the stupid MPs. All a GE will do is give us a hung parliament... The latest polls still have the % vote favouring remain parties. I suppose the question remains is how the split of the Tories/TBP and the Labour/Lib Dems votes allows other parties through to win the seats. Interestingly Jo Swinson has said she will work tactically with PC and the Greens as to not dilute the votes as they are doing in the Brecon by election https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/27/boris-bounce-lifts-tories-at-expense-of-brexit-party-poll-shows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: Still sulking. 😂 Liars and fraudsters ultimately always have to fall back on cheap jibes like that. Its a lack of character. Not very British either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 42 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Liars and fraudsters ultimately always have to fall back on cheap jibes like that. Its a lack of character. Not very British either. Still sulking x 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 30, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Still sulking x 2. Happen it's because we're all "monumentally stupid". One of the cheap jibes that a handful of remainers have banded about since they didn't get their way. Introspection not a strong point in some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Happen it's because we're all "monumentally stupid". One of the cheap jibes that a handful of remainers have banded about since they didn't get their way. Introspection not a strong point in some. They cannot accept that the biggest referendum vote ever was to leave, something wrong with folk who cannot accept a democratic result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted July 30, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: They cannot accept that the biggest referendum vote ever was to leave, something wrong with folk who cannot accept a democratic result. So your idea of Democracy is "tell as many lies as possible in order to win, then do something entirely different and pretend that's what everyone voted for"? Edited July 30, 2019 by Cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, Cheese said: So your idea of Democracy is "tell as many lies as possible in order to win, then do something entirely different and pretend that's what everyone voted for"? Sulking x 3. Reel them in.😂🇬🇧 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Sulking x 3. Reel them in.😂🇬🇧 Candy from a baby this mounts 😂😂 Edited July 30, 2019 by royal white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 38 minutes ago, Cheese said: So your idea of Democracy is "tell as many lies as possible in order to win, then do something entirely different and pretend that's what everyone voted for"? Pathetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted July 30, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Pathetic "Pathetic" is pretending I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athywhite1958 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Salford Trotter said: Where was No Deal on the side of a bus? Cummings said the 'lies' won it for the Leave campaign and there would've been a very different result if they had campaigned on a No Deal platform Politicians have lied to the masses since the year dot, there's no difference, except there are a new breed of people out there who cannot stand it when they lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: They cannot accept that the biggest referendum vote ever was to leave, something wrong with folk who cannot accept a democratic result. Hypothetical, I know. but given what we know now, do you think leave would win if there was a vote next week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 30, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, athywhite1958 said: Politicians have lied to the masses since the year dot, there's no difference, except there are a new breed of people out there who cannot stand it when they lose And that includes many a politician, sadly. They set the tone. Stupid thing is, had they not been so he'll bent on stopping brexit, and actually done what they said they would we'd have been out by now. Irrespective of the merits of the deal (a different discussion), we would have moved on and not be potentially closer to the complete antithesis of what remainers actually want. This argument that there's no mandate for this that and the other is daft. The only mandate was to leave; they failed to sort it and it's a case of reaping what you so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 30, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Hypothetical, I know. but given what we know now, do you think leave would win if there was a vote next week? Very difficult to answer Mick; dunno to be honest. The thing is, until we've actually left, all the chat and shite is just conjecture. If we didn't leave, the forces that brought it about would get stronger. Therefore leave and see. Make proper, informed judgements in the years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Hypothetical, I know. but given what we know now, do you think leave would win if there was a vote next week? The polls now are similar to June 2016, so it would be close again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Fair enough - take it you two would still vote leave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Fair enough - take it you two would still vote leave? I think most folk would vote exactly the same as last time. That’s why no point in another in/out another referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: I think most folk would vote exactly the same as last time. That’s why no point in another in/out another referendum. Not so sure that's correct, all the opinion polls have it the other way round but granted it would be close. But if it's a choice of No Deal or Remain it would be an emphatic win for Remain https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/ Edited July 30, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 30, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2019 Remain lost. So what about a choice between any new Boris deal, if he succeeds and no deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Brexit has never really been about leaving the EU, despite what it says on any bus side. It’s about ideology, about people who have felt marginalised by liberal internationalism that has left communities feeling unrepresented and without a voice. Thats the genius of Cummings - he saw and exploited what the MPs he despises on both sides couldn’t. Economic arguments count for naught (who really understands them?) and the only people talking about them were the very people people in leave hotbeds hated for trying to tell them ‘what they should think’ Take back control. From what? Who really knew or for that matter even cared? This is about the invisible enemy that has seen industrial strategy change, jobs walk out of towns across England and only city based Elites benefitted. This was a vote 30 or more years in the making and the EU gave us something to pin it on. Thats why it’d be a close run thing again, it’s not a political question of being part of the European Union, at its heart it’s the question of personal and regional identity wrapped up in the tissue paper flag nationhood and what it means on a personal level. It’s nostalgic, It’s the voice of people who haven’t been listened to, it’s not something that can be engaged with on normal debating terms (as this thread shows) and whatever it means, the ramifications will be felt long after most of us are dead and buried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: Not so sure that's correct, all the opinion polls have it the other way round but granted it would be close. But if it's a choice of No Deal or Remain it would be an emphatic win for Remain https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/ Remain lost in June 2016. You do suffer quite terribly from amnesia on that point. And anyway - if no deal is such a bad idea for everyone, then your utterly reasonable, intellectual, pragmatic chums in Brussels will make sure it doesn't happen. It's ever so clear that Mrs May's withdrawal agreement will not pass through the House of Commons. And so the ball is very much in Mr Barnier's court now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 30, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 minute ago, paulhanley said: Remain lost in June 2016. You do suffer quite terribly from amnesia on that point. And anyway - if no deal is such a bad idea for everyone, then your utterly reasonable, intellectual, pragmatic chums in Brussels will make sure it doesn't happen. It's ever so clear that Mrs May's withdrawal agreement will not pass through the House of Commons. And so the ball is very much in Mr Barnier's court now. In the end I can see the backstop being replaced by alternative arrangements as was talked about in the malthouse proposal. Perhaps, an agreement to "not rock the boat too much" until these are sorted, and a time frame to do so. Maybe other tweaks elsewhere, but I reckon once the backstop has gone, enough will vote for it, even if they don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulhanley Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: In the end I can see the backstop being replaced by alternative arrangements as was talked about in the malthouse proposal. Perhaps, an agreement to "not rock the boat too much" until these are sorted, and a time frame to do so. Maybe other tweaks elsewhere, but I reckon once the backstop has gone, enough will vote for it, even if they don't like it. That would be a fairly pragmatic route through. It'd be one hell of a climbdown for their imperial lordships in Brussels however. They don't do negotiation. They do stubborn, oppressive browbeating. Similar in tone and tenor to the oppressive and browbeating regulation that suppresses growth to below that being experienced elsewhere in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, mickbrown said: Hypothetical, I know. but given what we know now, do you think leave would win if there was a vote next week? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, paulhanley said: That would be a fairly pragmatic route through. It'd be one hell of a climbdown for their imperial lordships in Brussels however. They don't do negotiation. They do stubborn, oppressive browbeating. Similar in tone and tenor to the oppressive and browbeating regulation that suppresses growth to below that being experienced elsewhere in the world. Speaking of growth rates. The commies and the socialists seem to be doing alright of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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