Sweaty Ken

[barrycowdrill]

 

We know that ~£750K flowed out of the club to businesses Anderson either owns or has a connection with. Were he not here that money would not be going there.

 

 

it would be going somewhere though. ie: whoever else owned the club.

 

Now it could have been more or less but no one, absolutely no one would do any job let alone what he has done for nothing...

 

edit: also, havent there been a number of times where he has stated he has put in his own money to then take out when appropriate. It could be that.

 

Heavan forbid the club pays a debt back on time 

Edited July 27, 2018 by barrycowdrill

[mannyroad58]

If anyone believes that a person who owns his own business is not paying himself is an absolute nob, no-one on here would do that so why expect him to do that

 

IMO he deserves every penny for sorting out the shit he inherited from others

[bwfcfan5]

it would be going somewhere though. ie: whoever else owned the club.

 

Now it could have been more or less but no one, absolutely no one would do any job let alone what he has done for nothing...

 

edit: also, havent there been a number of times where he has stated he has put in his own money to then take out when appropriate. It could be that.

 

Heavan forbid the club pays a debt back on time 

 

I'm not arguing that. Could be that the sums would be going to agents and he's offsetting that consultancy against agent fees.

 

We don't know.

And whether it is reasonable or not is also entirely up for debate.

 

However, it will be seen as a significant amount if we're bottom come November. Though by then the nobs will probably have started on Parky. 

[Sluffy]

ok

 

do you think he does it for free? THE FACTS suggest he does it for free, but he pays someone else at his own company to the tune of 525k to help him out

 

you say "that could mean anything really"

 

what do you think it means?

 

IF I was the millionaire owner of a Championship football club, swanky new restaurant's in London, a tax exile registered in Switzerland, with a place in Monaco and apparently own a big sea going boat, I doubt I'd be farting about much trying take a half million from one of my several businesses in a sort of clumsy way to try and disguise that was what I was doing - but that's just me I guess.

 

I'm simply happy to stick with the facts and let others speculate endlessly on what the payment of £525,000 for consultancy fees may (or may not) mean.

[barrycowdrill]

I'm not arguing that. Could be that the sums would be going to agents and he's offsetting that consultancy against agent fees.

 

We don't know.

And whether it is reasonable or not is also entirely up for debate.

 

However, it will be seen as a significant amount if we're bottom come November. Though by then the nobs will probably have started on Parky. 

 

Well it just goes to show how fickle the argument is then doesnt it. Because if we're mid table then no one would say a peep.

 

If it was really an issue it would be questioned if we were top, middle or bottom. Hopefully he has realised by now he can ignore the vast majority of what our fans and about 95% of our social media mongalongs say 

[Sweep]

Can’t understand why he’s saying he isnt pro actively trying to get investment/a sale done. Only waiting for these predictable chancers to kick tyres. He cant pay bonuses on time or put decent bids in so he is going to just oversee our return to league one. Smoke and mirrors all the time

 

What do you think he should do, out of interest?

 

I reckon he should go and find a Billionaire to buy us, and then sign M'bappe

[bwfcfan5]

The whole "not proactively looking for investment/sale" is just PR. If he says "we are actively looking to sell" it makes everyone panic that until he does sell things will be shit, but more critically it also alerts any potential buyers that Ken might be a bit desperate and they come in and low ball.

 

He's not going to say ever "I need to sell the club". That is what he's trying to do though - eventually. 

[barrycowdrill]

The whole "not proactively looking for investment/sale" is just PR. If he says "we are actively looking to sell" it makes everyone panic that until he does sell things will be shit, but more critically it also alerts any potential buyers that Ken might be a bit desperate and they come in and low ball.

 

He's not going to say ever "I need to sell the club". That is what he's trying to do though - eventually. 

 

i may be wrong here and missed an article or his weekly column but i thought the only time where he wasnt actively trying to do this was from Jan - end of the season?

 

He'd had that many idiots by that time he put it on the back burner until the end of the season. Before and since then hes actively tried to get money in?

 

So im confused as to where this view comes from that he isnt...

[Ratwhite]

If anyone believes that a person who owns his own business is not paying himself is an absolute nob, no-one on here would do that so why expect him to do that

 

IMO he deserves every penny for sorting out the shit he inherited from others

 

Nail on head......

[bwfcfan5]

i may be wrong here and missed an article or his weekly column but i thought the only time where he wasnt actively trying to do this was from Jan - end of the season?

 

He'd had that many idiots by that time he put it on the back burner until the end of the season. Before and since then hes actively tried to get money in?

 

So im confused as to where this view comes from that he isnt...

 

His latest statement said they weren't proactively seeking investment/new owners. Previously he'd said they were seeking investment (not a sale).

[Sluffy]

The dispute was between SS and IC over the club's ownership. It was resolved (and the shares transferred to IC) via a payment from the football business. The argument about whether this enriches Anderson or not is moot. That was club money being used to solve a dispute between two companies over club ownership. Yet the business itself paid for the resolution. And IC picked up the shares as a result. 

 

In effect if IC decided to buy shares of another unrelated business you wouldn't expect KA to use BWFC money to pay for them. 

 

As for guessing, nobody is guessing here. It is irrelevant what the money was used for. We know that ~£750K flowed out of the club to businesses Anderson either owns or has a connection with. Were he not here that money would not be going there.

 

Is it fair enough? Different debate entirely. Also we do not know if he is taking a standard wage on top. 

 

At the time both Holdsworth and Anderson were joint owners of the club.  

 

The transaction basically allowed Holdsworth (as half owner of the club by his company SSBWFC) to 'cash in' £250,000 of his equity on the shares and Anderson (as half owner of the club by his company ICI Ltd) lose £250,000 of the clubs assets that he had now become the clubs major shareholder in.

 

The fact that it was done and reported in the clubs audited accounts lodged at Companies House shows that there was nothing illegal or wrong in this transaction, no matter what you may think, or care to argue, about it.

 

 

 

The accounts also note that a separate £250,000 was paid by the business to settle the inner circle and sports shield business. The net result being transfer of shares from SS to IC. You could argue that is also money Anderson has taken out of the club for his own end.

 

The consultancy, I’m struggling to see any argument how that isn’t Anderson indirectly paying himself a wage. I’m not saying he shouldn’t. But the counter point is if you add it all up it’s £750K taken out of the club by Anderson on a turnover of £8M.

 

As for 'guessing' this is what you said previously to which I answered, namely there are no facts that Anderson has withdrawn any money for "his own end" or "indirectly paying himself a wage".

 

If you are not guessing then you must have proof that this indeed is the case then?

 

If you don't and are just speculating on something you are oblivious to the facts about other than money has been paid to companies with a family connection to Mr Anderson for 'consultancy work' you would have absolutely no idea as to whether you are right or wrong.

 

I would say that was guessing - wouldn't you?

[barrycowdrill]

what did Gartside get paid? asking for a friend 

[dave2980]

what did Gartside get paid? asking for a friend

I seem to recall it was about £500k a year

[barrycowdrill]

I seem to recall it was about £500k a year

 

Perfect, 500k for signing off contracts which nearly bankrupted us compared to £250k for saving us

 

seems about fair 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Not a fair comparison. We were doing well in the prem with a much bigger income then.

 

Anyhow it seems reasonable to accept that Ken has had money from the club. No problem for me, he's entitled to it. Whether it might be a bit high- maybe, but again until the exact amount is known, then hard to judge.

 

He's our own version of brexit. Need to give it time to make a proper judgement call on their effectiveness.

[barrycowdrill]

Not a fair comparison. We were doing well in the prem with a much bigger income then.

 

Anyhow it seems reasonable to accept that Ken has had money from the club. No problem for me, he's entitled to it. Whether it might be a bit high- maybe, but again until the exact amount is known, then hard to judge.

 

He's our own version of brexit. Need to give it time to make a proper judgement call on their effectiveness.

 

ok so the success of each individual is neither here nor there. However, Ken has a similar role if not even more hands on than PG

 

so regardless of income the salary should be the same should it not? let alone half (which is what he is currently on)

 

If someone left my work on 100k a year and I went for the job and they offered me 50k due to 'decrease in income' i would tell them to fuck off

 

same principle. 

[Ghana White]

IF I was the millionaire owner of a Championship football club, swanky new restaurant's in London, a tax exile registered in Switzerland, with a place in Monaco and apparently own a big sea going boat, I doubt I'd be farting about much trying take a half million from one of my several businesses in a sort of clumsy way to try and disguise that was what I was doing - but that's just me I guess.

 

I'm simply happy to stick with the facts and let others speculate endlessly on what the payment of £525,000 for consultancy fees may (or may not) mean.

Creative accounting is How the rich stay rich. I don't pretend to know whats happening but with his history let's not pretend this isn't a possibility.

Personally I don't like Anderson or his son. But in a business sense I don't know enough about it. He's kept the club going and managed to get us promoted can't ask for more then that. Just gets let down whenever he has to deal with people like the players strike. He's a dodgy business man with a dodgy past which is unfortunately what we've needed at times. He's let down by his and his sons God complex personalities but he's not there to be liked

[barrycowdrill]

he's not there to be liked

 

Correct.

 

Hes admitted there have been some tough decisions which will naturally upset people and allow them to pick holes in him, his approach or those decisions.

 

fact is, without his help we wouldnt have a club. Well the same club. Some seem to forget that 

[bwfcfan5]

The job Ken does and the job Gartside did are radically different.

 

Ken has people to "run the club" for him. Gartside was at the club, day to day (when he was drawing a large salary) and often was working till 10/11 at night. He might have made bad decisions but he worked incredibly hard for the football club.

 

Not saying Ken doesn't but its a very different type of role. 

[barrycowdrill]

The job Ken does and the job Gartside did are radically different.

 

Ken has people to "run the club" for him. Gartside was at the club, day to day (when he was drawing a large salary) and often was working till 10/11 at night. He might have made bad decisions but he worked incredibly hard for the football club.

 

Not saying Ken doesn't but its a very different type of role. 

 

what you do yourself and what you delegate is completely at your discretion.

 

the role is the role and the salary is a reflection of that role. Parity across the board. Do all MD's in business work until 10-11 a night? No. Some do, others get the work force to do so.

 

So all of this "Gartside deserved more because he stayed later" is complete bollocks

 

i honestly dont care whether he worked 40 or 100 hours a week, ultimately he was within half an hour of the club folding. due to his management of it. So for all his effort and staying behind when the cleaners had gone counts for nothing. And he was paid half a million a year for the privilege?

 

Yet the guy who comes in and sorts his mess out and gets paid half of that gets dogs abuse? get out of here 

Edited July 27, 2018 by barrycowdrill

[bwfc2003]

The job Ken does and the job Gartside did are radically different.

 

Ken has people to "run the club" for him. Gartside was at the club, day to day (when he was drawing a large salary) and often was working till 10/11 at night. He might have made bad decisions but he worked incredibly hard for the football club.

 

Not saying Ken doesn't but its a very different type of role. 

Not sure Ken has "people to run the club for him" - alright he doesnt cut the grass or serve in the canteen but I think he pretty much takes care of the business element

[Whites man]

I drove passed the Macron at lunch and saw Ken up a ladder putting up the new sponsor signage.

[Kane57]

I drove passed the Macron at lunch and saw Ken up a ladder putting up the new sponsor signage.

Made me laugh

[barrycowdrill]

I drove passed the Macron at lunch and saw Ken up a ladder putting up the new sponsor signage.

 

He's selling programmes this year in the ESL & South stand corner 

[bwfcfan5]

what you do yourself and what you delegate is completely at your discretion.

 

the role is the role and the salary is a reflection of that role. Parity across the board. Do all MD's in business work until 10-11 a night? No. Some do, others get the work force to do so.

 

So all of this "Gartside deserved more because he stayed later" is complete bollocks

 

i honestly dont care whether he worked 40 or 100 hours a week, ultimately he was within half an hour of the club folding. due to his management of it. So for all his effort and staying behind when the cleaners had gone counts for nothing. And he was paid half a million a year for the privilege?

 

Yet the guy who comes in and sorts his mess out and gets paid half of that gets dogs abuse? get out of here 

 

I'm not saying that. Gartside came in and inherited a total mess. We were as Allardyce said the other day "on the brink of administration". The situation was turned round and we became a premiership club for a long time and got to Europe etc etc. He brought ED on board to facilitate much of this financially.

 

To suggest that Gartside is entirely judged on his stewardship at the end is flawed. He took the reigns in a crisis similar to the one Anderson inherited. Possibly worse with the manager going on the same day. And the club in total meltdown. But from there he was a part of taking us to heights we never dreamed we'd see.

 

Once ED started his "unmanaged retreat" it was clear that terrible decision were and had been made in the past few years. But I for one hope Anderson achieves even half with the club as PG/ED did in terms of bringing success whilst also learning the lessons from it.

 

All I'm saying is that the burden was squarely on PG's shoulders in terms of ED's investment and we were a premiership club that he had a very hands on role with and also sacrificed his other business interests to spend all his time on. He didn't own the club or hold any significant equity and in essence he was ED's CEO. So I think a salaried position given where we were and what he did was more than reasonable.

 

I'm not suggesting it isn't for KA. But remember he is the owner and majority shareholder - if and when he sells up he will make the money on a deal. And has Paul Aldridge doing a lot of what Gartside was employed to do for ED. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by bwfcfan5