Chris Custodiet Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 35 minutes ago, Howardroark said: It can if it’s “converted to equity” Sorry, Howard, you cannot convert a loan into equity and for it also to remain as a loan. You could convert some of it but any part you convert could not also be a loan. That's like eating the cake and claiming you haven't touched it.
dazl1212 Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 33 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: How about this - stabilise the club, run it well, hopefully have some on-field success - put it in a better place then sell it? I'm not saying that is easy but its very possible even without spending loads. If they have NOTHING to spend then that becomes very unlikely. If they can clear the debts, run it "sustainably" with modest financial support (say £3M a year which is our current run rate so I'm told) then they could theoretically stabilise us around the bottom end of the championship with a fair wind, good decisions and a proper structure in place. That in my opinion of course would be a massive gamble. Possible but it would a not inconsiderable cash injection.
Chris Custodiet Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Howardroark said: Yes it’s against expected dividends/remuneration targets. You seem to be saying that Michael James, from his 20% shareholding in a company worth c.£2m at the time, was expecting to get £5.5m in dividends/remuneration and instead of getting cash decided to lend the money to Bolton Whites Hotel because he could then, tax-free, convert a company loan into a loan in his own name, convert the loan into shares and still draw on the loan as if the share conversion had never happened. How long have you worked in finance? Edited March 13, 2019 by Chris Custodiet
Chris Custodiet Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 10 hours ago, Traf said: Oh, there's going to be some proper uproar when the financial details of how the last six months or so have played out become public knowledge. Do you have reason to believe that money's been taken out in the last six months?
auckland_bwfc Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: You seem to be saying that Michael James, from his 20% shareholding in a company worth c.£2m at the time, was expecting to get £5.5m in dividends/remuneration and instead of getting cash decided to lend the money to Bolton Whites Hotel because he could then, tax-free, convert a company loan into a loan in his own name, convert the loan into shares and still draw on the loan as if the share conversion had never happened. How long have you worked in finance? Ooo, the finance juggernauts about to go head to head here!
Burndens Bogs Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, HomerJay said: ken for life then. Sounds like a great idea for a neck tattoo, an image of a smirking sweaty ken in a tank top with the words “ken for life” underneath or maybe "In Ken we thrust". I know a bloke who could do it for you - it would look mint and it would be a great way for you to remember our charismatic ex - chairman 😁 Edited March 13, 2019 by Burndens Bogs
gonzo Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 It’s like them two blokes fighting in the street on Bridget Jones diary
Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, gonzo said: It’s like them two blokes fighting in the street on Bridget Jones diary Very apt. Just need snow.
Traf Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 37 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Do you have reason to believe that money's been taken out in the last six months? No, far from it. Did I seem to suggest that?
Howardroark Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 47 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: You seem to be saying that Michael James, from his 20% shareholding in a company worth c.£2m at the time, was expecting to get £5.5m in dividends/remuneration and instead of getting cash decided to lend the money to Bolton Whites Hotel because he could then, tax-free, convert a company loan into a loan in his own name, convert the loan into shares and still draw on the loan as if the share conversion had never happened. How long have you worked in finance? Long enough to know that it’s perfectly viable for the PBP loan to be novated to MJ under the directorship of Whites Ventures and that the terms of repayment for MJ to PBP are against future earnings.
Plums Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Does Basran have links to any real ale establishments, or Carrs pasties? Hope so.. 😊 Edit: in fact any alcoholic drink supplier that is in fact drinkable.. thankyouplease Edited March 13, 2019 by Plums
Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Plums said: Does Basran have links to any real ale establishments, or Carrs pasties? Hope so.. 😊 Edit: in fact any alcoholic drink supplier that is in fact drinkable.. thankyouplease As mentioned elsewhere, get a microbrewery established in the stadium. And a curry house.
Chris Custodiet Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Long enough to know that it’s perfectly viable for the PBP loan to be novated to MJ under the directorship of Whites Ventures and that the terms of repayment for MJ to PBP are against future earnings. But not long enough, apparently, to know that if the PBP loan was 'novated' to MJ, in any shape or form, it would cost PBP c.£1.8m in corporation tax and if MJ wanted to draw on it for any purpose it would cost a great deal more than that. Leaving aside the presumption that the majority shareholder in PBP was happy for MJ to take £5.5m out of the company entirely for his own benefit, both majority and minority shareholders in PBP would be bound to be overjoyed at paying all that tax for no discernible benefit. I think not. Edited March 13, 2019 by Chris Custodiet
Chris Custodiet Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, Traf said: No, far from it. Did I seem to suggest that? It seemed a bit like that. Hence the question. I expect that Ken saw the chances of him making much profit on the sale of his shares receding into the far distance and took steps to make sure that Holdsworth didn't walk off with more than him. But i also expect that he would have done that more than six months ago. The ideal scenario, for the club and for him, would have been for him to be able to line up a purchaser last summer.
MickyD Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, gonzo said: Fuckin ell Micky you’ve had that formerly nose twitching pig since you stole it off a Bulgarian Ultra message board back in 2005. It's going back soon. Just did that you see if aviator changing rights were revoked as stated.
Wanderlust Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 51 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: It seemed a bit like that. Hence the question. I expect that Ken saw the chances of him making much profit on the sale of his shares receding into the far distance and took steps to make sure that Holdsworth didn't walk off with more than him. But i also expect that he would have done that more than six months ago. The ideal scenario, for the club and for him, would have been for him to be able to line up a purchaser last summer. I believe the last accounts published were up to 2017 and the balance sheet showed that the value of the club had dropped by around 4 million in Anderson's first year. Since then we don't know what the value of the club is, but personally I suspect it's continued to decline under Anderson's tenure. Proving that he syphoned money/asset-stripped or anything more spurious than piss poor management is an impossible task but for whatever reason, if the club is now worth a lot less than it was when Anderson took it over it is only logical that he should have got out a lot earlier than he did when the club was worth more instead of spending the family jewels to stay in power. Some have said that there were no buyers and some have said that there were billionaire buyers but Anderson made ridiculous personal demands and pissed them off - again difficult to prove as it looks like everyone who ever talked to him is subject to an NDA. I do suspect the truth about Anderson will come out one day and it wouldn't surprise me if the new owners filed early accounts to demonstrate where we are now at and what they've inherited - unless Anderson put a gagging order on that too
HomerJay Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hoppy510 said: I believe the last accounts published were up to 2017 and the balance sheet showed that the value of the club had dropped by around 4 million in Anderson's first year. Since then we don't know what the value of the club is, but personally I suspect it's continued to decline under Anderson's tenure. Proving that he syphoned money/asset-stripped or anything more spurious than piss poor management is an impossible task but for whatever reason, if the club is now worth a lot less than it was when Anderson took it over it is only logical that he should have got out a lot earlier than he did when the club was worth more instead of spending the family jewels to stay in power. Some have said that there were no buyers and some have said that there were billionaire buyers but Anderson made ridiculous personal demands and pissed them off - again difficult to prove as it looks like everyone who ever talked to him is subject to an NDA. I do suspect the truth about Anderson will come out one day and it wouldn't surprise me if the new owners filed early accounts to demonstrate where we are now at and what they've inherited - unless Anderson put a gagging order on that too could you possibly write a more speculative post? how about we wait on the first set of accounts, then decide if we are more fucked now than previous.
Traf Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said: It seemed a bit like that. Hence the question. I expect that Ken saw the chances of him making much profit on the sale of his shares receding into the far distance and took steps to make sure that Holdsworth didn't walk off with more than him. But i also expect that he would have done that more than six months ago. The ideal scenario, for the club and for him, would have been for him to be able to line up a purchaser last summer. No, I was referring to how Ken found the money to keep our noses just above the waterline. It’ll all come out in the wash, I’m sure.
Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Traf said: No, I was referring to how Ken found the money to keep our noses just above the waterline. It’ll all come out in the wash, I’m sure. Hopefully. I was informed only this morning, of another nasty ken story. It is, inevitably from a friend of a friend of someone close and involved, and I won't therefore put it on here. However I will say, Ken is a cunt.
Wanderlust Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, HomerJay said: could you possibly write a more speculative post? Oh God yeah.
Howardroark Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Chris Custodiet said: But not long enough, apparently, to know that if the PBP loan was 'novated' to MJ, in any shape or form, it would cost PBP c.£1.8m in corporation tax and if MJ wanted to draw on it for any purpose it would cost a great deal more than that. Leaving aside the presumption that the majority shareholder in PBP was happy for MJ to take £5.5m out of the company entirely for his own benefit, both majority and minority shareholders in PBP would be bound to be overjoyed at paying all that tax for no discernible benefit. I think not. Not true, please refer to the relevant legal framework for the sale of bad debt.
waffer cup 07 Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 On 03/02/2019 at 00:23, freds dad said: The Home Bargains Stadium. Sounds a bit shit. Nearly as bad as The University of Bolton Stadium.
Chris Custodiet Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Howardroark said: Not true, please refer to the relevant legal framework for the sale of bad debt. Are you having a bad day, Howard? What on earth are you on about? You seem to be wanndering off into some imaginary universe? Whose sold which bad debt to whom and for what reason?
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