Coronavirus

[fatolive]

2 hours ago, Sweep said:

there is no known vaccine, so there is no way one can be being mass produced already surely? - unless we're paying for something that is untested and may not work, if it does then great...of not, more money down the pisser. And we also don't know for how long any potential vaccine would/could work for, which is why it takes so long to properly validate one, you sadly just can't rush some things

Vaccine is in production by Astra Zeneca from the research done at Oxford  
some other vaccine by Johnson and Johnson has been worked on since January apparently 

I posted a link to this earlier in the thread as they said possibly sept https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-astrazeneca-track-virus-vaccine-september.amp

it’s showing promise apparently but needs to go to the next stage for approval . 

government have already or Pre ordered shit loads of plus loads of others in development around the world . 
 
If you  google Oxford vaccine, loads of reports come up , from papers on it to reports in the lancet , some make positive reading, others not so, but they are well on with it in layman’s terms, how long the final phase will be seems to be the only variable 

[Guest]

Single figures since end July

None on 20 July

[Tonge moor green jacket]

At least the "100% death rate" on previously positive testing has gone.

 

[Spider]

Wash yer hands

wear a mask

let’s crack the fuck on

if you’re old, be extra vigilant

Edited August 12, 2020 by Spider

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, Spider said:

Wash yer hands

wear a mask

let’s crack the fuck on

if you’re old, be extra vigilant

Get them back in schools and sit their exams... 😁

[stevieb]

29 minutes ago, Spider said:

Wash yer hands

wear a mask

let’s crack the fuck on

if you’re old, be extra vigilant

This

Or face a massive proportion of a generation of kids getting brought up on universal credit. 

[Ghana White]

10 hours ago, kent_white said:

Sadly there's hardly any public health nurses left! 

Yep dying breed, really sad when they say every pound spent on public health saves 14 quid yet public health keeps getting it in the neck,.

[birch-chorley]

34 minutes ago, Ghana White said:

Yep dying breed, really sad when they say every pound spent on public health saves 14 quid yet public health keeps getting it in the neck,.

That’s nonsense surely? 

We spend £130bn a year on the NHS, in a (normal no Covid year), that’s £2k for every man, women and child in the country 

if that £2k spent is saving £28k per man women and child then I will show my arse 

that would mean our £130bn a year is generating over £2tn, which is roughly the total GDP of the country 

[Ghana White]

48 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

That’s nonsense surely? 

We spend £130bn a year on the NHS, in a (normal no Covid year), that’s £2k for every man, women and child in the country 

if that £2k spent is saving £28k per man women and child then I will show my arse 

that would mean our £130bn a year is generating over £2tn, which is roughly the total GDP of the country 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2017-03-pound-spent-health-uk-average.amp

It's a widely quoted figure in the NHS, depends on interventions like a lot of things, personally i would argue some public health interventions are worthless, I can think of some though that will be saving over 14. I know theres been a paper released recently that argues it doesn't which is definitely worth looking at but this is the figure widely repeated in public health circles, it's certainly taught on the public health degree because I've just got one.

[birch-chorley]

26 minutes ago, Ghana White said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2017-03-pound-spent-health-uk-average.amp

It's a widely quoted figure in the NHS, depends on interventions like a lot of things, personally i would argue some public health interventions are worthless, I can think of some though that will be saving over 14. I know theres been a paper released recently that argues it doesn't which is definitely worth looking at but this is the figure widely repeated in public health circles, it's certainly taught on the public health degree because I've just got one.

I might be getting confused between public health spending and NHS spending 

Clearly the £130bn spent on the NHS doesn’t then create £2tn, that would be ridiculous 

However I can see how spending money on some Public Health services will save the NHS money (thinking sure start, Sexual health stuff etc). But then again you will hit a saturation point. Otherwise you would just go and spend £1tn on public health in order generate £14tn to the economy and we would have bigger GDP than the U.S 

On the other hand, some of these public health schemes actually cost the state money. Smoking cessation being one of them. I’m sure I saw a report in the BBC said that the average smoker costs the NHS a lot less than a non smoker. Generally because they die a lot younger so don’t require costly elderly services. Add that onto the Pension money saved by the government on smokers who die young and you can make a case for not promoting cessation if it’s all about return on investment 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by birch-chorley

[Ghana White]

16 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I might be getting confused between public health spending and NHS spending 

Clearly the £130bn spent on the NHS doesn’t then create £2tn, that would be ridiculous 

However I can see how spending money on some Public Health services will save the NHS money (thinking sure start, Sexual health stuff etc). But then again you will hit a saturation point. Otherwise you would just go and spend £1tn on public health in order generate £14tn to the economy and we would have bigger GDP than the U.S 

On the other hand, some of these public health schemes actually cost the state money. Smoking cessation being one of them. I’m sure I saw a report in the BBC said that the average smoker costs the NHS a lot less than a non smoker. Generally because they die a lot younger so don’t require costly elderly services. Add that onto the Pension money saved by the government on smokers who die young and you can make a case for not promoting cessation if it’s all about return on investment 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/17/nhs-could-save-billions-by-offering-cash-reward-to-quit-smoking

Article reckons smoking costs NHS and economy billions 

[Casino]

Only a smoker would argue otherwise

[mickbrown]

2 hours ago, Casino said:

Only a smoker would argue otherwise

The dirty bastards

[birch-chorley]

3 hours ago, Ghana White said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/17/nhs-could-save-billions-by-offering-cash-reward-to-quit-smoking

Article reckons smoking costs NHS and economy billions 

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-smoking-cost-much-it-makes-treasury/

Full fact recons the government brings in £12bn a year in tax then spends £6bn on NHS costs. Once everything else is considered your looking about flat in year 

A non smoker will generally live a lot longer though and are likely to require more in terms of social care costs down the line 

That’s before you consider that the average smoker will claim a lot less in the way of state pension over a lifetime vs a non smoker (average smoker dies 10 years younger than non smoker, that’s £70k in state pension alone) 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by birch-chorley

[Jol_BWFC]

22 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-smoking-cost-much-it-makes-treasury/

Full fact recons the government brings in £12bn a year in tax then spends £6bn on NHS costs. Once everything else is considered your looking about flat in year 

A non smoker will generally live a lot longer though and are likely to require more in terms of social care costs down the line 

That’s before you consider that the average smoker will claim a lot less in the way of state pension over a lifetime vs a non smoker (average smoker dies 10 years younger than non smoker, that’s £70k in state pension alone) 

 

Won’t be so much of a problem in a few years - I doubt there’ll be much of a state pension, if any (although that’s for a different thread).

[Spider]

So shall I start smoking?

I've never bothered but always thought it looked cool.

[bolton va va]

19 minutes ago, Spider said:

So shall I start smoking?

I've never bothered but always thought it looked cool.

Yes, you'll be doing your bit for the country. (I've no idea if it's true, but i really like the argument that smokers are saving the country money by dying young ,thereby needing less medical care  & taking less out of the pension pot !!!)

[Tonge moor green jacket]

How much does cancer treatment and a lung transplant cost?

How less productive is an individual with long term smoking related illnesses?

Minefield. 

[Ghana White]

53 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

https://fullfact.org/economy/does-smoking-cost-much-it-makes-treasury/

Full fact recons the government brings in £12bn a year in tax then spends £6bn on NHS costs. Once everything else is considered your looking about flat in year 

A non smoker will generally live a lot longer though and are likely to require more in terms of social care costs down the line 

That’s before you consider that the average smoker will claim a lot less in the way of state pension over a lifetime vs a non smoker (average smoker dies 10 years younger than non smoker, that’s £70k in state pension alone) 

 

It's an interesting viewpoint I think were moving slightly away from the original argument here so I'll resist putting cancer uk economic argument up or we'll be here all day. It doesn't actuallly say that smoking cessation costs the state anything. Obviously smoking kills 100 thousand people a year that's before you get to the quality of life and COPD it creates. It's one of the biggest causes of health disparity and supports the life expectancy between richest and poorest. I would argue the mental health problems this causes alone is immeasurable in communities. Anyone who's been on a respiratory ward can see the pretty horrible death people face, if this can be avoided for no cost I would say that's worth it. I do except though that the original argument was about the cost effectivenesss of public health, as pointed out though these gains are made in other areas, the problem with public health is that results can take years which is why pretty much no government is that keen to invest in it. I definitely approve of Johnson talking about obesity be interesting to see what he does with that. The evidence you put up contradicts NICE guidelines health economics on smoking cessation, be interesting to present it to NICE and see what they make of it 

[birch-chorley]

should have quoted TMGJ 

That full fact article covers all of those costs in its analysis 

Point being, does every £1 spent on Public health schemes really generate £14, smoking cessation schemes will be in this. I don’t think it gets anywhere near that sort of return if you look at the full impact 

Edited August 13, 2020 by birch-chorley

[Ghana White]

Smoking cessation on evidence I can find actually drags the number down its listed below 14 quid comeback on 1 pound investment 

[Ghana White]

I admire your confidence though that you've googled something on full fact and are now happy you've disproved peer reviewed research articles in british medical journal 

[birch-chorley]

16 minutes ago, Ghana White said:

Smoking cessation on evidence I can find actually drags the number down its listed below 14 quid comeback on 1 pound investment 

This lot (economists) recon the Net impact of smoking would cost the country £20bn a year all things considered 

https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Smoking-and-the-Public-Purse.pdf

Ive tried to find the original article I read years back, think that was on the BBC 

Think it’s clear that the tax generated alone (£12bn a year) covers the annual costs incurred 

Its then a case of looking at the average life expectancy impacts 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by birch-chorley

[Casino]

Earlier, i thought you were taking the piss

You're actually serious, arent you

[Ghana White]

4 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

This lot recon the Net impact of smoking would cost the country £20bn a year all things considered 

https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Smoking-and-the-Public-Purse.pdf

 

I'd be wary of anything by Christopher Snowden hea a massive opponent of the "nanny state" and against government interventions.