Coronavirus

[birch-chorley]

1 minute ago, Casino said:

Earlier, i thought you were taking the piss

You're actually serious, arent you

I would have thought otherwise until I read it on the BBC years ago, a quick look at the headline numbers and it adds up 

Tax generated is £12bn, I can’t find anywhere that suggest the costs are significantly above this 

Then the state saves money on pensions and elderly care. Certainly doesn’t feel like nonsense to me 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

7 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I would have thought otherwise until I read it on the BBC years ago, a quick look at the headline numbers and it adds up 

Tax generated is £12bn, I can’t find anywhere that suggest the costs are significantly above this 

Then the state saves money on pensions and elderly care. Certainly doesn’t feel like nonsense to me 

Can get what you're saying, but there is also a moral aspect that's part of a modern society. 

A few years back I once read that it cost (iirc) > £20k per year per prisoner to keep them inside. It would have been more cost effective to pay each prisoner 20k per annum to do nowt so long as they behaved.

Never going to happen though.

[birch-chorley]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Can get what you're saying, but there is also a moral aspect that's part of a modern society. 

A few years back I once read that it cost (iirc) > £20k per year per prisoner to keep them inside. It would have been more cost effective to pay each prisoner 20k per annum to do nowt so long as they behaved.

Never going to happen though.

I get the moral aspect of course, no skin off my nose if everyone quit tomorrow. I just believe it’s a myth that smokers cost the state money, if you look at the total picture 

Certainly don’t think we should be looking to spend more on public health schemes based on a financial return on investment if there isn’t one. Happy to have a discussion around public health investment based on it being better for people’s health of course 

[jayjayoghani]

Dominic Cummings has appeared on WW. 

[birch-chorley]

Ha ha, it’s like I’ve got 2 heads! Cancer research (who are hardly objective on the matter) make the total cost of smokers £11bn a year to the U.K. economy (£2.5bn of it falls on the NHS) 

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/sites/default/files/economic_case_for_local_investment_in_smoking_cessation_printed_version.pdf

The tax and VAT generated each year from cigarettes is £12bn at the till (without any consideration for corporation tax paid by the cigarette companies and PAYE for its employees) 

That alone would make it about flat. The discrepancy in life expectancy costs then means a smoker costs a lot less than a non smoker over a lifetime. 

The cancer research article recons every £1 spent on smoking cessation services saves the NHS £10 in the long run. It doesn’t even consider the lost tax revenue, let alone the long term life expectancy costs 

Its like saying ‘if we leave the EU we will save £350m a week’ - it’s smoke and mirrors (excuse the pun) 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by birch-chorley

[peelyfeet]

26 minutes ago, birch-chorley said:

I would have thought otherwise until I read it on the BBC years ago, a quick look at the headline numbers and it adds up 

Tax generated is £12bn, I can’t find anywhere that suggest the costs are significantly above this 

Then the state saves money on pensions and elderly care. Certainly doesn’t feel like nonsense to me 

 It's impossible to measure, because healthy longevity of the population has other pro's and cons.

The main idea is living life without the need for medical intervention is better than the opposite  - a healthy person is more productive, less strain on others, which enables others in turn to be more productive.

Taken to the N'th degree, if we eradicated most disease and had robots carry out medcial care when needed, that would free up millions of folk to do other stuff. 

"WIPE MY ARSE PLEASE R2-D2" is what I hope ill be saying when I'm on my last legs in the Horwich robotic care home for BWFC fans in 2060.  

[birch-chorley]

3 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

 It's impossible to measure, because healthy longevity of the population has other pro's and cons.

The main idea is living life without the need for medical intervention is better than the opposite  - a healthy person is more productive, less strain on others, which enables others in turn to be more productive.

Taken to the N'th degree, if we eradicated most disease and had robots carry out medcial care when needed, that would free up millions of folk to do other stuff. 

"WIPE MY ARSE PLEASE R2-D2" is what I hope ill be saying when I'm on my last legs in the Horwich robotic care home for BWFC fans in 2060.  

All fair points, I guess the long term life expectancy stuff is hard to quantify exactly 

The original piece I read made out that smoking related issues were generally short and sharper earlier on in life. Whereas the non smoking population would generally require a lot more in the way of elderly care (social care, plastic hips etc) which costs a lot more over a longer period of time 

I guess robots wiping arses will help off set that 

[peelyfeet]

Just now, birch-chorley said:

All fair points, I guess the long term life expectancy stuff is hard to quantify exactly 

The original piece I read made out that smoking related issues were generally short and sharper earlier on in life. Whereas the non smoking population would generally require a lot more in the way of elderly care (social care, plastic hips etc) which costs a lot more over a longer period of time 

I guess robots wiping arses will help off set that 

haha

Older folk buy stuff for longer as well, so although they may cost the NHS more, Werthers orignals, Tena Lady pants, and Whiskas make more profit and the hmrc gets the tax from that, and they generally have more savings, which gives the banks capital to enable more lending, investement etc. very complex. 

I hope they never work out that it's best for us to die at age X and then proceed to bump us all off, or create policies that promote it.

I'm getting cryogenically frozen and my personality and DNA uploaded to a hard drive, so I'll be able to live forever.  

have you ever watched Logans Run? 

 

[Ani]

18 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

 

I hope they never work out that it's best for us to die at age X and then proceed to bump us all off, or create policies that promote it.

 

 

Think they have. It explains the Govt approach to Care Homes during the pandemic. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Kindly Peely, was just reading your post and thinking of Logans run. Then you said it!

Maybe this virus is indeed a more insidious form; designed to bump off a percentage early.

[Zico]

26 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

haha

Older folk buy stuff for longer as well, so although they may cost the NHS more, Werthers orignals, Tena Lady pants, and Whiskas make more profit and the hmrc gets the tax from that, and they generally have more savings, which gives the banks capital to enable more lending, investement etc. very complex. 

I hope they never work out that it's best for us to die at age X and then proceed to bump us all off, or create policies that promote it.

I'm getting cryogenically frozen and my personality and DNA uploaded to a hard drive, so I'll be able to live forever.  

have you ever watched Logans Run? 

 

might explain the past few months

[birch-chorley]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Kindly Peely, was just reading your post and thinking of Logans run. Then you said it!

Maybe this virus is indeed a more insidious form; designed to bump off a percentage early.

I’ve not seen Logan’s run, will add it to the list 

I did some work with the British Society of Immunology earlier this year. They were telling me that vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives, second only to clean water. 

They recon if it wasn’t for the winter flu vaccine many more would die each year and the average life expectancy in the U.K. would be a lot lower than it is 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, birch-chorley said:

I’ve not seen Logan’s run, will add it to the list 

I did some work with the British Society of Immunology earlier this year. They were telling me that vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives, second only to clean water. 

They recon if it wasn’t for the winter flu vaccine many more would die each year and the average life expectancy in the U.K. would be a lot lower than it is 

When you watch it, just bear in mind the era of production. Always think there's a touch of magic roundabout about it, but its good nevertheless. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ghana White said:

I admire your confidence though that you've googled something on full fact and are now happy you've disproved peer reviewed research articles in british medical journal 

Drags!

[Zico]

23 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

Be no sport left to watch if it’s 2022 before the gates are open 

Certainly not at our level anyway 

What are clubs supposed to pay players with, fresh air? 

wouldn't surprise me if some clubs had to resort to that for a few weeks / months

players would then have the choice to stick at it, or go find a job

[Guest]

Screech to keep kids away from schools, and therefore exams

 

Screech when they don't get the grades

[Spider]

12 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Screech to keep kids away from schools, and therefore exams

 

Screech when they don't get the grades

Aye

Theyre as good as saying everyone should given straight A’s

[SatanGreavsie]

2 hours ago, birch-chorley said:

I’ve not seen Logan’s run, will add it to the list 

 

You should do, not so much for the moral/philosophical aspects it involves, but for the fact that Jenny Agutter gets her kit off. Mind you, there's few films of hers in which she didn't.

[Cheese]

52 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

Screech to keep kids away from schools, and therefore exams

 

Screech when they don't get the grades

You spend a lot of time screeching about people screeching.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Cheese said:

You spend a lot of time screeching about people screeching.

If you say

[Tonge moor green jacket]

53 minutes ago, Spider said:

Aye

Theyre as good as saying everyone should given straight A’s

Can't win. North or South of the border, I sometimes wonder if they remember folk have died, been left with long recuperation times and out of work.

Its undoubtedly tough for them, but the lack of basic common sense is at times, very obvious. 

One last night complaining about it will be so difficult for students, yet in the next breath, was suggesting students should contact their chosen establishment and for these places to consider easing their requirements given the nature of the situation. 

Well fucking hell. Who'd have thought it, a university needing students for income and students needing their place actually talking to each other.

We've had the nhs, care sector, industry and academia, and volunteers going above and beyond and pulling their tripe out for the greater good, and on the other hand a number of  people intent on making the worse of whatever situation is presented to them.

Can really feel for some of these kids, their initial disappointment is palpable, however they need to grasp the nettle, and crack on with the options presented. Some of the educators would do well to lead by example instead of bemoaning the situation.

 

[Cheese]

52 minutes ago, boltondiver said:

If you say

I do. Using your own definition of the word "screeching" of course.

[Spider]

Bottom line is that there’s enough uni places for everyone.

There’s been a pandemic.

No one has been asked to run at German bullets for fucks sake.

90% of degrees are filler anyway 

 

[Zico]

Dunno about anyone else but at 43 I don't look back and think "thank God I got that B in Physics"

A degree prob helped me get a decent job straight out of uni but after that it's experience that counted

[Sweep]

22 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I do. Using your own definition of the word "screeching" of course.

"Screeching" is generally the term people use when somebody else has an opinion that differs from their own. It is almost exclusively used by those who voted Brexit as well for some reason