Bertie Posted March 3, 2025 Posted March 3, 2025 Trump doubling down on Zelensky criticism. If it wasn’t already, it seems increasingly clear they want a quick closure to this (ie their economic minerals deal signed) ….. at any cost to Ukraine. VZ understandably wants this tied to a security assurances for any subsequent peace deal, the details of which of course are vague to say the least. At end of day I feel comes down to a massive leap of faith in trusting Trump that the security “will get figured out”. If he doesn’t sign soon then will Trump call his bluff? Pretty horrible position for VZ tbh. Gut feel is he has to sign and hope, with UK/EU/RoW being prepared to guarantee to peace if/when Trump either lets him down, or does as we all suspect, and completely side with Russia. How did it come to this. And the MAGA nodding dogs still don’t smell a rat. Quote
Bertie Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 So, Trump has indeed paused/stopped Ukrainian aid. One day it will come out what the Russians have on him, how he is compromised. The only explanation. Blackmailing Ukraine to surrender. Putting no additional pressures on Russia whatsoever. Rewarding the aggressor punishing the victim. Pure evil. There are no words. Let’s hope he rots in hell - soon. Quote
royal white Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 10 minutes ago, Bertie said: So, Trump has indeed paused/stopped Ukrainian aid. One day it will come out what the Russians have on him, how he is compromised. The only explanation. Blackmailing Ukraine to surrender. Putting no additional pressures on Russia whatsoever. Rewarding the aggressor punishing the victim. Pure evil. There are no words. Let’s hope he rots in hell - soon. Mineral deal will probably be signed in the next few days followed by aid being reinstated Quote
Farrelli Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 Very bad news for Europe and Ukraine. Russia can carry on now knowing there is no US backstop. Quote
Zico Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 21 minutes ago, royal white said: Mineral deal will probably be signed in the next few days followed by aid being reinstated Who said there was no profit in peace eh Quote
Popular Post Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 4, 2025 Popular Post Posted March 4, 2025 28 minutes ago, royal white said: Mineral deal will probably be signed in the next few days followed by aid being reinstated VZ has never ruled out signing the agreement over minerals. It's the other bits and participants that were the issue. Maybe Europe should sign the agreement instead. I'm hearing Vance's latest comments: they would make total sense if they were addressed to the aggressor, and not doing so is wildly obtuse. Almost a cowards approach; can't push the dictatorial, bullying invader to stop, so pick on the victim. If they want a deal with Ukraine; then tell Putin to stop, put in some conditions to protect the peace, and I'm sure VZ will be perfectly happy to agree business deals. Quote
royal white Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: VZ has never ruled out signing the agreement over minerals. It's the other bits and participants that were the issue. Maybe Europe should sign the agreement instead. I'm hearing Vance's latest comments: they would make total sense if they were addressed to the aggressor, and not doing so is wildly obtuse. Almost a cowards approach; can't push the dictatorial, bullying invader to stop, so pick on the victim. If they want a deal with Ukraine; then tell Putin to stop, put in some conditions to protect the peace, and I'm sure VZ will be perfectly happy to agree business deals. I think saying to Putin “we own these areas now (mineral mines) can you stop the bombing” Will work better than “ can you stop the bombing as I want to take control of these areas” (obviously the quotes are simplified for when others wake up on here) Edited March 4, 2025 by royal white Quote
Spider Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 So signing a minerals deal is the one move that will stop Putin? Have I got that right? This whole shitshow has somehow been condensed down to a signature that gives America some titanium. No mention of the invasion, no mention of stolen sovereign land, just some minerals that Musk can us to build more rockets? Wwwwooooowwwwwww Quote
gonzo Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 And in the grand scheme of things these minerals are worth jack shit. Quote
BobyBrno Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 2 minutes ago, Spider said: So signing a minerals deal is the one move that will stop Putin? Have I got that right? This whole shitshow has somehow been condensed down to a signature that gives America some titanium. No mention of the invasion, no mention of stolen sovereign land, just some minerals that Musk can us to build more rockets? Wwwwooooowwwwwww Not defending Trump here but it’s not too dissimilar to the American support to us between 1939 - 41. It’s how the Americans do it. Quote
Spider Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 2 minutes ago, gonzo said: And in the grand scheme of things these minerals are worth jack shit. Just playing this through. Deal is signed Trump wants killing to stop but gives Ukraine loads more weapons as part of deal. Putin shits his keks and says “I’ll call a ceasefire” World celebrates peace. Russia gets to keep the land. Ukraine now has less land and gets fuck all for its minerals to rebuild. Russia better off US better off Ukraine worse off That sound about right? Quote
Spider Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 2 minutes ago, BobyBrno said: Not defending Trump here but it’s not too dissimilar to the American support to us between 1939 - 41. It’s how the Americans do it. How much land did we lose? Quote
gonzo Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 2 minutes ago, Spider said: Just playing this through. Deal is signed Trump wants killing to stop but gives Ukraine loads more weapons as part of deal. Putin shits his keks and says “I’ll call a ceasefire” World celebrates peace. Russia gets to keep the land. Ukraine now has less land and gets fuck all for its minerals to rebuild. Russia better off US better off Ukraine worse off That sound about right? It's almost as if this was the plan all along Quote
Spider Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 3 minutes ago, gonzo said: It's almost as if this was the plan all along Trumps desperation for these minerals is what really stands out here. He’d be shit at poker. Quote
BobyBrno Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 5 minutes ago, Spider said: How much land did we lose? We could have lost all of it without the support of the US. Luckily then, Roosevelt was President. A quick read through this explains the mood of many Americans at the time. Some of the language is identical to that of the current Republicans. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/arsenal-ally-united-states-enters-war#:~:text=In November 1939%2C he convinced,them in their own ships. Quote
Spider Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 Just now, BobyBrno said: We could have lost all of it without the support of the US. Luckily then, Roosevelt was President. A quick read through this explains the mood of many Americans at the time. Some of the language is identical to that of the current Republicans. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/arsenal-ally-united-states-enters-war#:~:text=In November 1939%2C he convinced,them in their own ships. Luckily the Japs rocked up at Pearl Harbour. I can’t see Putin attacking his mate directly this time around. Quote
Spider Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 The EU are raising €650billion for military hardware. This is all heading in only one direction and trump is squabbling about some rocks. Quote
royal white Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Spider said: Just playing this through. Deal is signed Trump wants killing to stop but gives Ukraine loads more weapons as part of deal. Putin shits his keks and says “I’ll call a ceasefire” World celebrates peace. Russia gets to keep the land. Ukraine now has less land and gets fuck all for its minerals to rebuild. Russia better off US better off Ukraine worse off That sound about right? Well they could do an agreement with Europe for the minerals. But that will likely mean no end to the fighting. Russia no better off Europe slightly better off Ukraine slightly worse off Edited March 4, 2025 by royal white Quote
Spider Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 4 minutes ago, royal white said: Well they could do an agreement with Europe for the minerals. But that will likely mean no end to the fighting. Russia slightly better off Europe slightly better off Ukraine slightly worse off You think that’ll stop Putin? Quote
royal white Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 5 minutes ago, Spider said: You think that’ll stop Putin? Edited Russia to no better off. No it probably wont stop Putin. Hence me saying no end to the fighting Quote
mickbrown Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 He's a Russian asset. That's without doubt now. Quote
Zico Posted March 4, 2025 Posted March 4, 2025 42 minutes ago, Spider said: Just playing this through. Deal is signed Trump wants killing to stop but gives Ukraine loads more weapons as part of deal. Putin shits his keks and says “I’ll call a ceasefire” World celebrates peace. Russia gets to keep the land. Ukraine now has less land and gets fuck all for its minerals to rebuild. Russia better off US better off Ukraine worse off That sound about right? That's been in the pipeline for a while since the US told Ukraine what the deal would like between the two of them, except I don't think they got offered weapons Kiev was rightly unhappy And folk have been calling them peace talks and criticising Europe for not attempting something sooner Quote
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