Meanwhile in Israel

[Duck Egg]

7 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

Then you need to understand the consequences of a ceasefire; the war continues, Hamas just regroup and get ready for the next time. 
 

“Proponents of a ceasefire present it as a choice between war and peace. They are wrong. A ceasefire which leaves Hamas in power, with its massive haul of armaments intact, is a recipe for endless war and terror for Israelis and Palestinians alike”

 

 

 

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

This is not a conventional war so history books are for the birds

History will tell you all conflicts, however you want to view them, don’t work like that. 

[London Wanderer]

It seems that for some, everything always has to come back to Hamas. That if they didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have a conflict and Palestinians would be free.

Most know that this conflict isn’t that simple. 
 

Even Israel’s closest allies are calling for a ceasefire, because they know that this could escalate. 
 

As for the ‘well they didn’t do it on purpose & such is war’ argument… must be something that soldiers like to tell themselves. It’s obvious that the withholding of aid and strikes in evacuation zones has been on purpose. Of course Hamas hold some responsibility for that, but that doesn’t excuse Israel every time. 
 

[Farrelli]

11 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

Then you need to understand the consequences of a ceasefire; the war continues, Hamas just regroup and get ready for the next time. 
 

“Proponents of a ceasefire present it as a choice between war and peace. They are wrong. A ceasefire which leaves Hamas in power, with its massive haul of armaments intact, is a recipe for endless war and terror for Israelis and Palestinians alike”

 

We have just had a prolonged period of relative peace so I don’t accept that prognosis. What is happening now will never bring a lasting peace. It can only happen with significant negotiation not by more killing.

[royal white]

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

We have just had a prolonged period of relative peace so I don’t accept that prognosis. What is happening now will never bring a lasting peace. It can only happen with significant negotiation not by more killing.

Do you you suggest Israel shouldn’t retaliate when they’re being attacked?

[Farrelli]

11 minutes ago, royal white said:

History will tell you all conflicts, however you want to view them, don’t work like that. 

This is not a normal conflict

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

This is not a normal conflict

Fucking hell- a normal conflict!

What the hell is that?

Ww2, balkans, Iraq, Sudan, Colombia, Syria, IS, etc...

 

[Duck Egg]

9 minutes ago, royal white said:

Do you you suggest Israel shouldn’t retaliate when they’re being attacked?

Do you suggest Palestinians shouldn't retaliate when they're being attacked?

[royal white]

1 minute ago, Duck Egg said:

Do you suggest Palestinians shouldn't retaliate when they're being attacked?

I thought it was Hamas who were retaliating? 
 

 

[Duck Egg]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

I thought it was Hamas who were retaliating? 
 

 

An eye for an eye will leave em all blind in the end.

[Farrelli]

5 minutes ago, royal white said:

Do you you suggest Israel shouldn’t retaliate when they’re being attacked?

No but this is retaliation in contravention of the Geneva Convention 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

18 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

It seems that for some, everything always has to come back to Hamas. That if they didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have a conflict and Palestinians would be free.

Most know that this conflict isn’t that simple. 
 

Even Israel’s closest allies are calling for a ceasefire, because they know that this could escalate. 
 

As for the ‘well they didn’t do it on purpose & such is war’ argument… must be something that soldiers like to tell themselves. It’s obvious that the withholding of aid and strikes in evacuation zones has been on purpose. Of course Hamas hold some responsibility for that, but that doesn’t excuse Israel every time. 
 

Israel's closest allies haven't called for a ceasefire. 

Neither has Starmer, who's opinion doesn't count apparently.

Neither has another senior Labour figure (whose name eludes me) who unequivocally has backed Israel's position.

Good on the pair of them for having the balls to do so, despite internal pressure. 

[globaldiver]

28 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

It seems that for some, everything always has to come back to Hamas. That if they didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have a conflict and Palestinians would be free.

Most know that this conflict isn’t that simple. 
 

Even Israel’s closest allies are calling for a ceasefire, because they know that this could escalate. 
 

As for the ‘well they didn’t do it on purpose & such is war’ argument… must be something that soldiers like to tell themselves. It’s obvious that the withholding of aid and strikes in evacuation zones has been on purpose. Of course Hamas hold some responsibility for that, but that doesn’t excuse Israel every time. 
 

Have the US and UK called for a ceasefire?

[Zico]

2 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

An eye for an eye will leave em all blind in the end.

In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king 

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

8 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Do you suggest Palestinians shouldn't retaliate when they're being attacked?

Let them crack on then. Everyone stop complaining when Israel fights back that bit harder.

[globaldiver]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Let them crack on then. Everyone stop complaining when Israel fights back that bit harder.

Just more anti-Israel, anti-Semitic banter

[BobyBrno]

18 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

We have just had a prolonged period of relative peace so I don’t accept that prognosis. What is happening now will never bring a lasting peace. It can only happen with significant negotiation not by more killing.

This my last comment on this thread as I’ve been discussing this since 1967 and it goes on and on and round and round.

Hamas will NOT negotiate. They are terrorists who want to exterminate all Jews. 
When Hamas are gone, the negotiations can begin. 

[royal white]

7 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

No but this is retaliation in contravention of the Geneva Convention 

An eye for an eye 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Duck Egg]

3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Let them crack on then. Everyone stop complaining when Israel fights back that bit harder.

Or, rather than both sides continue to kill children, the majority could thrash out some sort of compromise?

And for Bobby - Hamas and some Palestinians will not negotiate. Neither will large swathes of Israeli politicians and people.  Ultimately its for the overwhelming majority on both sides to reach some sort of settlement.

[Farrelli]

4 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Or, rather than both sides continue to kill children, the majority could thrash out some sort of compromise?

And for Bobby - Hamas and some Palestinians will not negotiate. Neither will large swathes of Israeli politicians and people.  Ultimately its for the overwhelming majority on both sides to reach some sort of settlement.

Amen

[Farrelli]

12 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

This my last comment on this thread as I’ve been discussing this since 1967 and it goes on and on and round and round.

Hamas will NOT negotiate. They are terrorists who want to exterminate all Jews. 
When Hamas are gone, the negotiations can begin. 

Neither will some Israel politicians. Got to do what is best for the majority on both sides.

[London Wanderer]

17 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

Have the US and UK called for a ceasefire?

I heard on the radio that Biden had in exchange for the hostages held my Hamas and had been calling for more aid to arrive. 

Might be wrong.

[London Wanderer]

3 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Neither will some Israel politicians. Got to do what is best for the majority on both sides.

Precisely this for me. 

There are just as many extremists on both sides who have no desire to negotiate. 

Again, it's the argument that all this begins and ends with Hamas. That's not the case. 

[gonzo]

So I ask again.

What did Hamas think would happen when they attacked?

Surely they expected this level of attack back?

 

[globaldiver]

5 minutes ago, gonzo said:

So I ask again.

What did Hamas think would happen when they attacked?

Surely they expected this level of attack back?

 

Great question 

My guess is that they know/think that Iran has enough to beat Israel. The big question there is whether Iran has nuclear weapons.