Meanwhile In England

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

9 hours ago, kent_white said:

I'll be honest - I don't really know what it is they say because I've never watched them. 

Presumably it's along the lines of - Free Palestine - down with Israel - fuck the monarchy - or something like that? 

Didn't they also say something about killing Tory MPs as well? 

I very much doubt that they would genuinely want any Tory MPs to be killed in reality. Although if they're found to be in breach of the law then they either need to be punished - or the law needs changing if it's not fit for purpose. 

They go a bit further 

[Bertie]

23 minutes ago, royal white said:

There’s another festival/Carnival in a couple of months that goes by the name of Notting Hill. No doubt there will be dozens of stabbings, rapes, sexual assaults, attacks on emergency workers and possibly murders amongst other crimes. I guarantee we will have a particular group on here saying “these things happen at carnivals” “you don’t see calls for football matches to be cancelled” and other equally stupid defensive posts.  

Not me / agree with you.  A crime is a crime.  Laws apply equally to everyone.  Left or Right. White or Black. Atheist or Theist. Etc etc.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

10 hours ago, kent_white said:

I'll be honest - I don't really know what it is they say because I've never watched them. 

Presumably it's along the lines of - Free Palestine - down with Israel - fuck the monarchy - or something like that? 

Didn't they also say something about killing Tory MPs as well? 

I very much doubt that they would genuinely want any Tory MPs to be killed in reality. Although if they're found to be in breach of the law then they either need to be punished - or the law needs changing if it's not fit for purpose. 

As above, LW once again sees the law as to be used to fit his narrative only.

There must be some scope to allow musical freedom, and it isn't for the state to shut down all controversy.

On the otherhand, where is the line drawn?

Lucy Connelly broke the law so received a punishment. 

Delving into her case, the level of punishment is truly ridiculous, especially considering her personal circumstances; ptsd following her own child's death.

Then continued deprivations whilst inside.

Kneecap member currently on charge, yet the band is still invited to play, and their comments are without doubt far worse. 

You seem to be suggesting some sort of acceptance because of their "balanced" lyrics as they have a go at both parties: they're simply anti British.

Laws can always be modified according to need, but if they are, then they can't differentiate between those who cross the line.

Taking the whole thing into the round, the irony of the festival is stark.

A section of attendees with an anti-capitalist, "eat the rich" set of beliefs, which is fair enough, yet they do so on land belonging to a family who are actually coining it in on the backs of these people.

Moreover, Mr Eavis has apparently now given the farm to his daughter, so as to avoid the government's new inheritance tax.

[peelyfeet]

3 hours ago, bolty58 said:

There is no comparison between Israel hunting down vicious cowards hiding behind civilians and what happened on October 7th.

It is not lost on me that the Glastonbury pop/rock festival has been in the news for "pro Palestine " reasons. It is not lost on me that the Supernova pop/rock festival was attacked for "pro Palestine" reasons. The common denominator seems to be the problem.

Still, one was only innocent Jews and foreign visitors (not hiding behind anyone) being butchered eh?

Israeli intelligence agencies can infiltrate Iran, simultaneously assassinate multiple military leaders and scientists in their homes, but have to kill thousands of children and starve hundreds of thousands as  justified  collateral damage to get to enemies in a land they occupy. Doesn't wash im afraid 

[bolty58]

5 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

Israeli intelligence agencies can infiltrate Iran, simultaneously assassinate multiple military leaders and scientists in their homes, but have to kill thousands of children and starve hundreds of thousands as  justified  collateral damage to get to enemies in a land they occupy. Doesn't wash im afraid 

Be afraid then.

We'll never agree. I am confident that they will achieve their goal. Nothing will stop them. It's called self preservation.

It will then be over.

[bolty58]

22 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

As above, LW once again sees the law as to be used to fit his narrative only.

There must be some scope to allow musical freedom, and it isn't for the state to shut down all controversy.

On the otherhand, where is the line drawn?

Lucy Connelly broke the law so received a punishment. 

Delving into her case, the level of punishment is truly ridiculous, especially considering her personal circumstances; ptsd following her own child's death.

Then continued deprivations whilst inside.

Kneecap member currently on charge, yet the band is still invited to play, and their comments are without doubt far worse. 

You seem to be suggesting some sort of acceptance because of their "balanced" lyrics as they have a go at both parties: they're simply anti British.

Laws can always be modified according to need, but if they are, then they can't differentiate between those who cross the line.

Taking the whole thing into the round, the irony of the festival is stark.

A section of attendees with an anti-capitalist, "eat the rich" set of beliefs, which is fair enough, yet they do so on land belonging to a family who are actually coining it in on the backs of these people.

Moreover, Mr Eavis has apparently now given the farm to his daughter, so as to avoid the government's new inheritance tax.

All eminently sensible. With them it is all about the first highlighted bit.

The second highlighted bit is the one which never ceases to amaze me. Not only are these militant Jeremy's and Henrietta's utterly despised by the Provo glorifying cunts but Hezbollah and others this band of bastards support would behead them in a second if they had the chance. Fkin idiots of the highest order.

 

 

[peelyfeet]

3 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Be afraid then.

We'll never agree. I am confident that they will achieve their goal. Nothing will stop them. It's called self preservation.

It will then be over.

They're losing support in the west and the west is losing power and influence to China. Israel isn't a desirable piece of land in terms of resources. I think theyre going to have an increasingly difficult century.

[Winchester White]

I would say the vast majority just want to enjoy the music and get off their tits.

[bolty58]

Just now, peelyfeet said:

They're losing support in the west and the west is losing power and influence to China. Israel isn't a desirable piece of land in terms of resources. I think theyre going to have an increasingly difficult century.

More difficult than the 20th? I very much doubt it.

I was pondering this earlier. The division on here about the Gaza situation. Generational I suspect.

Older end much stronger memories of the holocaust. Suspect many of the younger end and apologists are 'deniers'.

Many of us know that Palestinians and Irish Republicans wanted Hitler to win and offered succour. It is no surprise they remained allies during 'the troubles' and remain so today. The irony of Antifa siding with these nazi sympathisers. You couldn't script it.

[peelyfeet]

Just now, bolty58 said:

More difficult than the 20th? I very much doubt it.

I was pondering this earlier. The division on here about the Gaza situation. Generational I suspect.

Older end much stronger memories of the holocaust. Suspect many of the younger end and apologists are 'deniers'.

Many of us know that Palestinians and Irish Republicans wanted Hitler to win and offered succour. It is no surprise they remained allies during 'the troubles' and remain so today. The irony of Antifa siding with these nazi sympathisers. You couldn't script it.

The Nazi holocaust wont justify killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians 80 years later. I don't see the link between German ideological racism and Palestinians fighting against occupation. If Israel end up with a moderate government, there will be room for negotiation and relative peace in the future. That wasn't on the table with the Nazis.

[kent_white]

9 hours ago, bolty58 said:

The fucking book should be thrown at them.

If that puts me in a particular group in your eyes then so be it.

I didn't say they shouldn't have the book thrown at them. If they have broken the law then they should be subject to that law the same as anybody else should. Being on stage doesn't give you a free reign to say anything you like. 

My point was about people that can remain unfazed or even supportive of action that has already killed tens of thousands of people in Gaza and continues to do so everyday, yet are up in arms and full of indignation about someone changing things at a music festival. 

If you find yourself in that bracket then I'll never understand the way your brain is wired. It doesn't mean I dislike you. Or disagree that what this bloke said was out of order. It's just that I can't understand the thought process. 

Usually if I disagree with someone - I can at least see where they're coming from - even if I don't agree. This one I really struggle with seeing any rational reason for though. 

No doubt you feel the same way - and that's fine too. But I imagine you'd have a hard time convincing most people that the two are in any way comparable. 

And I suppose we're back to the free speech argument again. Should we be allowed to express our views in any way we like? Even if some people did it abhorrent? Or should the state be able to mandate what is and isn't acceptable? It's the latter for me, but the former for most libertarians - which is why it surprises me that so many of them are kicking off about this.

Maybe you don't actually class yourself as a libertarian though and I've misunderstood your worldview (which is entirely possible). 

In any event - I doubt either of us had even heard of the band before yesterday. I'd never heard of Kneecap either till about a month ago.

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

They go a bit further 

Fair enough - what do they go on about? I switched them on for about 2 minutes yesterday evening but they sounded utter shite to be fair so I binned it off. And I must have been listening to a non controversial bit. 

[Bertie]

9 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

More difficult than the 20th? I very much doubt it.

I was pondering this earlier. The division on here about the Gaza situation. Generational I suspect.

Older end much stronger memories of the holocaust. Suspect many of the younger end and apologists are 'deniers'.

Many of us know that Palestinians and Irish Republicans wanted Hitler to win and offered succour. It is no surprise they remained allies during 'the troubles' and remain so today. The irony of Antifa siding with these nazi sympathisers. You couldn't script it.

Nope.  I doubt the Gaza stuff on here is generational.  Anyone and everyone in their right mind condemns the holocaust. You may be right about factions of republicans/Palestinians supporting Hitler - I don’t know. But imho those folk would indeed not be in their right mind.

The difference on here I think is pretty obvious.  Aside from one or two folk, your good self included, the vast majority see the wickedness of the IDF in killing/starving Palestinian civilians for no reason whatsoever.  As per above they have the technology/intelligence to be much more surgical on eradicating Hamas if the so chose (which would be welcome).

Different opinions are fine of course, so we can all agree to differ, but please don’t suggest I view the holocaust as anything less than the pure evil it was, just because I’m highly critical of the current Israeli actions.

[kent_white]

18 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

I was pondering this earlier. The division on here about the Gaza situation. Generational I suspect.

Older end much stronger memories of the holocaust. Suspect many of the younger end and apologists are 'deniers'.

Many of us know that Palestinians and Irish Republicans wanted Hitler to win and offered succour. It is no surprise they remained allies during 'the troubles' and remain so today. The irony of Antifa siding with these nazi sympathisers. You couldn't script it.

I have genuinely never met a Holocaust denier in my life. Have you?

I'm not sure they exist past cranks on the internet. And those that do seem to be far right, not far left. 

I'm not sure that I agree that all Irish Republicans wanted Hitler to win the second world war. Some did - and they even launched a bombing campaign in England in the early part of the war (cunts by the way). But that was because they were trying to further the cause of Irish nationalism as opposed to being ideologically sympathetic with fascism. The enemy of my enemy is my friend I suppose.

But it's also true that lots of Irish people (including many eirhbwith republican sympathies) served with the British forces in WW2. 

The reality is, as ever much more nuanced. 

And if there is one group of people who have 'older and stronger memories of the holocaust' - it would (or at least should) be the people of Israel. Which is partly why I find what they are doing at the moment so shocking. It's like they've learned nothing. Or that the lesson they took was that we never want this to happen again - so we're not concerned how many innocents we need to kill to preserve ourselves. 

That's not the right lesson I would suggest. 

Where as somewhere like Germany has retained the memory - don't hide away from it and have used it as a catalyst to become a stronger country. 

I wish we would take a leaf out of their book sometimes.

[bolty58]

25 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

The Nazi holocaust wont justify killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians 80 years later. I don't see the link between German ideological racism and Palestinians fighting against occupation. If Israel end up with a moderate government, there will be room for negotiation and relative peace in the future. That wasn't on the table with the Nazis.

Well, what a surprise 

A mutual hatred of Jews might be a good starting point.

[bolty58]

25 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I didn't say they shouldn't have the book thrown at them. If they have broken the law then they should be subject to that law the same as anybody else should. Being on stage doesn't give you a free reign to say anything you like. 

My point was about people that can remain unfazed or even supportive of action that has already killed tens of thousands of people in Gaza and continues to do so everyday, yet are up in arms and full of indignation about someone changing things at a music festival. 

If you find yourself in that bracket then I'll never understand the way your brain is wired. It doesn't mean I dislike you. Or disagree that what this bloke said was out of order. It's just that I can't understand the thought process. 

Usually if I disagree with someone - I can at least see where they're coming from - even if I don't agree. This one I really struggle with seeing any rational reason for though. 

No doubt you feel the same way - and that's fine too. But I imagine you'd have a hard time convincing most people that the two are in any way comparable. 

And I suppose we're back to the free speech argument again. Should we be allowed to express our views in any way we like? Even if some people did it abhorrent? Or should the state be able to mandate what is and isn't acceptable? It's the latter for me, but the former for most libertarians - which is why it surprises me that so many of them are kicking off about this.

Maybe you don't actually class yourself as a libertarian though and I've misunderstood your worldview (which is entirely possible). 

In any event - I doubt either of us had even heard of the band before yesterday. I'd never heard of Kneecap either till about a month ago.

Yes on the highlighted bit.

I think you'll find that I posted about Kneecap on here some time ago. I suspect that they won't be around too long.

[Sweep]

3 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

 

Moreover, Mr Eavis has apparently now given the farm to his daughter, so as to avoid the government's new inheritance tax.

No he's not. he still retains control of the Farm, a 5th of it has been split between his children, so there is no attempt (yet) to mitigate the potential tax implications - the farm is valued at nearly £15M 😬

He has, however, transferred control of the Festival over to his daughter (1/4) and a family trust (3/4) - most profits, allegedly, are sent to Oxfam, Greenpeace & Wateraid each year. No doubt the Government will lose out on some money as a result of this....as ever, those with a lot of wealth, will always find a way to not have to pay tax (if they can help it)

Edited June 30, 2025 by Sweep

[bolty58]

13 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I have genuinely never met a Holocaust denier in my life. Have you? No but I've listened to a couple.

I'm not sure they exist past cranks on the internet. And those that do seem to be far right, not far left. Opposite for me. Far left.

I'm not sure that I agree that all Irish Republicans wanted Hitler to win the second world war. You can be absolutely sure that they all did not for reasons you go into below. Some did - and they even launched a bombing campaign in England in the early part of the war (cunts by the way). But that was because they were trying to further the cause of Irish nationalism as opposed to being ideologically sympathetic with fascism. The enemy of my enemy is my friend I suppose.

But it's also true that lots of Irish people (including many eirhbwith republican sympathies) served with the British forces in WW2.  Very much so. Yet another reason I find the activities of scummy bastards like The Green Brigade around Remembrance time utterly reprehensible. If you care to research the activities of Eamon De Valera regarding Hitlers birthday, hiding Nazi war criminals after the war and assisting them with passage to South America etc. it's not as nuanced as you suggest - particularly at the top of their hierarchy.

The reality is, as ever much more nuanced. 

And if there is one group of people who have 'older and stronger memories of the holocaust' - it would (or at least should) be the people of Israel. Which is partly why I find what they are doing at the moment so shocking. It's like they've learned nothing. Or that the lesson they took was that we never want this to happen again - so we're not concerned how many innocents we need to kill to preserve ourselves. Goes back to the word 'genocide'. That was. This isn't.

That's not the right lesson I would suggest. 

Where as somewhere like Germany has retained the memory - don't hide away from it and have used it as a catalyst to become a stronger country. 

I wish we would take a leaf out of their book sometimes. I do. With train timetables.

 

[London Wanderer]

24 minutes ago, Sweep said:

No he's not. he still retains control of the Farm, a 5th of it has been split between his children, so there is no attempt (yet) to mitigate the potential tax implications - the farm is valued at nearly £15M 😬

He has, however, transferred control of the Festival over to his daughter (1/4) and a family trust (3/4) - most profits, allegedly, are sent to Oxfam, Greenpeace & Wateraid each year. No doubt he Government will lose out on some money as a result of this....as ever, those with a lot of wealth, will always find a way to not have to pay tax (if they can help it)

Always funny when TMJ reads some shite with no context in the Mail, then sees it torn apart on here. 

[peelyfeet]

38 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Well, what a surprise 

A mutual hatred of Jews might be a good starting point.

It's whats behind the hatred that matters. Ideological racism doesn't bend, hate because of occupation and perceived inequality does when negotiations begin. You can't negotiate someone's ideology. Palestinians don't have an issue with Jewishness, they'd hate them just as much if they were Hindus.

[London Wanderer]

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

As above, LW once again sees the law as to be used to fit his narrative only.

There must be some scope to allow musical freedom, and it isn't for the state to shut down all controversy.

On the otherhand, where is the line drawn?

Lucy Connelly broke the law so received a punishment. 

 

I didn’t know about Lucy’s personal circumstances. Thats a helpful insight. Heavy or not, it’s not a case that should be used to compare with this.

I’m hardly interpreting the law to fit my narrative. Punk bands & many musicians have said offensive shite for decades. 
 

We can all be appalled & critical of the comments. But I’d be massively surprised if a court of law convicts a person for calling for the death of a military organisation wanted for war crimes. It won’t hold up & you know this. You’d then have thousands to get through the courts from all over the political spectrum. That’s not me fitting my narrative - it’s the reality of how the law applies here.
 

Kneecap were found not guilty after the charge, so why would BV be prosecuted ? 
 

Venues will decide whether to host them or not. Some will host, but many won’t & some gigs will be cancelled. Thats punishment enough here. But calling for licenses to be revoked & prosecution is nonsense. 

Edited June 30, 2025 by London Wanderer

[London Wanderer]

2 hours ago, royal white said:

There’s another festival/Carnival in a couple of months that goes by the name of Notting Hill. No doubt there will be dozens of stabbings, rapes, sexual assaults, attacks on emergency workers and possibly murders amongst other crimes. I guarantee we will have a particular group on here saying “these things happen at carnivals” “you don’t see calls for football matches to be cancelled” and other equally stupid defensive posts.  

“Right lads, this things gonna happen in a couple of months & you’re all going to say something really stupid 😁”

I’m think I’m a little bit jealous of your ego 😉 You seem excited for August 

[gonzo]

Nothing like a holocaust and genocide chat on a Monday morning to brighten the mood

[bolty58]

51 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

It's whats behind the hatred that matters. Ideological racism doesn't bend, hate because of occupation and perceived inequality does when negotiations begin. You can't negotiate someone's ideology. Palestinians don't have an issue with Jewishness, they'd hate them just as much if they were Hindus.

Leaving it there pal. Absolutely pointless discussion. I know which one will come out on top.

Works for me.

[deeane Koontz]

43 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Nothing like a holocaust and genocide chat on a Monday morning to brighten the mood

Yet strangely less depressing than Cascarino and Sawyer