Racist or not?

[Zico]

22 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Not hear about that!

Don't supppose it's available to see is it?

Was their big campaign a few years back 

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-story-behind-the-yorkie-chocolate-bar-2016-3

E.g

 

 

[Zico]

31 minutes ago, tomski said:

Right or wrong I’ll leave you to debate but Imagine what it would been like on here in its current guise if the Yorkie not for girls ad had gone live. 

Back to back with 

 

 

[Ani]

On the play it does seem a deliberately provocative idea. They can not make a 'black out' so you can easily guess that outraged gammons will buy tickets to make a point so the whole event could turn nasty.

Stupid idea.  

[Not in Crawley]

13 hours ago, FrancisFogarty said:

It was a good, cheap effective advert for the play.

I know the venue pretty well, it's wouldn't have been the aim, and it's not just about the theatre anyway - its not their production  its a recieving house for this show. The show itself is about being stuck in a minstrel show specifcally about the black experience.

 Statford's population is overwhelmining diverse, but the theatre's audience (a cornerstone of birtish theatre) is still drawn mainly from the white, middle class - like most theatre's despite where they are. Its still an issue that most theatre is made by, produced by and performed by white middle/upper class people. Christopher Ecclestone came out recently and said the paths for working class actors are still closed for many - regardless of ethnicity.

Anyway, its a much bigger debate than this one show - it doesn't ban anyone from watching, but aims to create welcoming spaces, talking about specific cultural issues within frameworks that have historically not been spaces for this experience.

But as I say this is a much bigger and much more nuanced topic than just the simple headline of white poeple are banned (they aren't) and its grabbing a topic off the shelf to be upset about that people don't need to be.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

I know the venue pretty well, it's wouldn't have been the aim, and it's not just about the theatre anyway - its not their production  its a recieving house for this show. The show itself is about being stuck in a minstrel show specifcally about the black experience.

 Statford's population is overwhelmining diverse, but the theatre's audience (a cornerstone of birtish theatre) is still drawn mainly from the white, middle class - like most theatre's despite where they are. Its still an issue that most theatre is made by, produced by and performed by white middle/upper class people. Christopher Ecclestone came out recently and said the paths for working class actors are still closed for many - regardless of ethnicity.

Anyway, its a much bigger debate than this one show - it doesn't ban anyone from watching, but aims to create welcoming spaces, talking about specific cultural issues within frameworks that have historically not been spaces for this experience.

But as I say this is a much bigger and much more nuanced topic than just the simple headline of white poeple are banned (they aren't) and its grabbing a topic off the shelf to be upset about that people don't need to be.

The fact white people (or people of any other ethnicity other than black) aren't prevented from attending is a red herring, though

The venue/production company simply cannot make it an event open solely to black people because discrimination laws prevent them from doing so

If it weren't within their gift, it would be an event where people of races/ethnicities other than black were not permitted to attend and that intention is a perfectly valid thing to discuss or have an opinion on

It seems strange for it to be dismissed as manufactured or something people don't need to be concerned with

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

The fact white people (or people of any other ethnicity other than black) aren't prevented from attending is a red herring, though

The venue/production company simply cannot make it an event open solely to black people because discrimination laws prevent them from doing so

If it weren't within their gift, it would be an event where people of races/ethnicities other than black were not permitted to attend and that intention is a perfectly valid thing to discuss or have an opinion on

It seems strange for it to be dismissed as manufactured or something people don't need to be concerned with

Ifs and buts do not an arguement make though - there are no red herrings here. No one is banned, its an invitation for a safe space, in traditionally areas where there has been exclusion of certain voices and topics. And its not a venue choice - it's an open invite from a visiting production.

Anyway, as I say its a much more complex and nuanced discussion - and it's good that the discussion is opened up - and one that many conferences and papers have been based on and I've had many discussions/debates over many years on this topic and audience development with people far brighter and knowledgeable on this topic than me, and will continue to do so as as a sector we look to opening up the cultural industries to more diverse voices and the best ways and root development to achieve this aim.

But this isn't a place where I personally want to go further with it, given where these things can sometimes end on these 'culture war' style topics which generally isn't to the benefit or enlightenment of anyone, and given I don't want to mention more that I now know on a public forum and so I shall now politely bow out of this one and leave you all to it.

Adieu. 

[FrancisFogarty]

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

I know the venue pretty well, it's wouldn't have been the aim, and it's not just about the theatre anyway - its not their production  its a recieving house for this show. The show itself is about being stuck in a minstrel show specifcally about the black experience.

 Statford's population is overwhelmining diverse, but the theatre's audience (a cornerstone of birtish theatre) is still drawn mainly from the white, middle class - like most theatre's despite where they are. Its still an issue that most theatre is made by, produced by and performed by white middle/upper class people. Christopher Ecclestone came out recently and said the paths for working class actors are still closed for many - regardless of ethnicity.

Anyway, its a much bigger debate than this one show - it doesn't ban anyone from watching, but aims to create welcoming spaces, talking about specific cultural issues within frameworks that have historically not been spaces for this experience.

But as I say this is a much bigger and much more nuanced topic than just the simple headline of white poeple are banned (they aren't) and its grabbing a topic off the shelf to be upset about that people don't need to be.

I’m sure you’re right. It’s a much bigger topic than the article or my comment deserves.

 I bow to your better knowledge of all things theatre, even though this is not just about theatre.

Edited May 23, 2023 by FrancisFogarty

[Ani]

11 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Ifs and buts do not an arguement make though - there are no red herrings here. No one is banned, its an invitation for a safe space, in traditionally areas where there has been exclusion of certain voices and topics. And its not a venue choice - it's an open invite from a visiting production.

Anyway, as I say its a much more complex and nuanced discussion - and it's good that the discussion is opened up - and one that many conferences and papers have been based on and I've had many discussions/debates over many years on this topic and audience development with people far brighter and knowledgeable on this topic than me, and will continue to do so as as a sector we look to opening up the cultural industries to more diverse voices and the best ways and root development to achieve this aim.

But this isn't a place where I personally want to go further with it, given where these things can sometimes end on these 'culture war' style topics which generally isn't to the benefit or enlightenment of anyone, and given I don't want to mention more that I now know on a public forum and so I shall now politely bow out of this one and leave you all to it.

Adieu. 

Why not offer free/discounted tickets to people from the local area ? I get the challenge of getting a more diverse audience but IMO the way to do that would be to promote directly to the disenfranchised group? 

[Spider]

I’ve bought tickets but am going to just leave a big side of ham on my seat and go to the nearest pub instead.

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

Why not offer free/discounted tickets to people from the local area ? I get the challenge of getting a more diverse audience but IMO the way to do that would be to promote directly to the disenfranchised group? 

Last post (Promise!) they do that - many theatres do in low income areas but that alone doesn't widen inclusion. Classic value over price discussion - it needs much more root and branch approaches than that.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

24 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Ifs and buts do not an arguement make though - there are no red herrings here. No one is banned, its an invitation for a safe space, in traditionally areas where there has been exclusion of certain voices and topics. And its not a venue choice - it's an open invite from a visiting production.

Anyway, as I say its a much more complex and nuanced discussion - and it's good that the discussion is opened up - and one that many conferences and papers have been based on and I've had many discussions/debates over many years on this topic and audience development with people far brighter and knowledgeable on this topic than me, and will continue to do so as as a sector we look to opening up the cultural industries to more diverse voices and the best ways and root development to achieve this aim.

But this isn't a place where I personally want to go further with it, given where these things can sometimes end on these 'culture war' style topics which generally isn't to the benefit or enlightenment of anyone, and given I don't want to mention more that I now know on a public forum and so I shall now politely bow out of this one and leave you all to it.

Adieu. 

Of course it's a red herring

The issue at hand - whether agreeing or disagreeing - is the venue/production company's intention to host an event restricted solely to members of one race

The fact they're required by law not to do that is a separate issue

[Spider]

These days, if you say you want to watch a play about black folk….

[fishbulb]

... they get arrested?

[Zico]

They could just spread the words amongst the blacks as to which night they should get tickets for in advance of going on sale 

[globaldiver]

In itself; not racist.

Those who try to divide us look to make the most of it.

[MancWanderer]

2 hours ago, globaldiver said:

In itself; not racist.

Those who try to divide us look to make the most of it.

My thoughts entirely. It’s not racist, it’s divisive

[stevieb]

It's probably not racist but the fact they're pulling this stunt makes me think it's definitely shit. 

Like 10x shitter than normal theatre.

The kind of thing white middle aged women who work in London read in the guardian is edgy and cool and so pay over the odds to get a ticket to. 

[royal white]

7 minutes ago, stevieb said:

It's probably not racist but the fact they're pulling this stunt makes me think it's definitely shit. 

Like 10x shitter than normal theatre.

The kind of thing white middle aged women who work in London read in the guardian is edgy and cool and so pay over the odds to get a ticket to. 

There’s a ticket tout on here who could help them out 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

On 23/05/2023 at 08:33, Zico said:

Back to back with 

 

 

Haha.

Certainly don't remember that.

[gonzo]

That's basically the pro brexit propaganda machine.

 

[captainmed]

How can it possibly be racist.

It only works one way.