Wrexham (A) - EFL Trophy

[thebells]

16 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Make your own mind up but the guys been promoted with Plymouth, ourselves, Stockport and now likely to with Bradford. I don’t think that’s a coincidence do you? He’s a guy who wants to win and maybe he saw early in Evatt what the rest of us did eventually? So who was really the mard arsed one behind the scenes? Obviously not saying I’d have Sarce himself back but I certainly think we could do with someone with a bit of his attitude in our side going forward? 🥴

My reply was mildly sarcastic but you've raised a good point about the 'wanting to win'. I guess that's what you're referring to. In terms of talent, we've moved well beyond him. But in terms of desire, that's perhaps where we're lacking.

Without wanting to drag up the past, i think Evatt's biggest issue was that he himself was a 'winner' in the Sarcevic mould as a player. But he had a clear identity he wanted to play to as a manager. His personal philosophy and managerial philosophy didn't always fit and clearly he was as frustrated as all of us when we lost the big games / derby games.

So i agree to an extent about the winners. I do think in players like Thomason, Johnstone (and the emerging Forrester), we are starting to see that. They're not perfect, but perhaps under Schumacher one or two of these will become our new leaders. I never really thought we needed a midfield 'bastard', but simply a player who was vocal and could rouse the crowd with one or two 'crunchers'. 

Sarcevic was instrumental in getting us out of League Two, just like we'll look back on Evatt and Santos as instrumental as getting us to the top of League One.

In summary, appreciate your response. And agree with you 🙂 

[Cheese]

9 minutes ago, thebells said:

My reply was mildly sarcastic but you've raised a good point about the 'wanting to win'. I guess that's what you're referring to. In terms of talent, we've moved well beyond him. But in terms of desire, that's perhaps where we're lacking.

Without wanting to drag up the past, i think Evatt's biggest issue was that he himself was a 'winner' in the Sarcevic mould as a player. But he had a clear identity he wanted to play to as a manager. His personal philosophy and managerial philosophy didn't always fit and clearly he was as frustrated as all of us when we lost the big games / derby games.

So i agree to an extent about the winners. I do think in players like Thomason, Johnstone (and the emerging Forrester), we are starting to see that. They're not perfect, but perhaps under Schumacher one or two of these will become our new leaders. I never really thought we needed a midfield 'bastard', but simply a player who was vocal and could rouse the crowd with one or two 'crunchers'. 

Sarcevic was instrumental in getting us out of League Two, just like we'll look back on Evatt and Santos as instrumental as getting us to the top of League One.

In summary, appreciate your response. And agree with you 🙂 

Were you in a coma over the weekend?

Edited February 11, 2025 by Cheese

[Traf]

32 minutes ago, thebells said:

Sarcevic was instrumental in getting us out of League Two, just like we'll look back on Evatt and Santos as instrumental as failing to get out of League One.

 

[thebells]

24 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Were you in a coma over the weekend?

Yes, what happened 😉

I'm sure you read my full post my fromage friend, where i referenced players we have who can change that. Saturday was great, but it'll take more than one game for the ghosts of the past to disappear.

 

[thebells]

2 minutes ago, Traf said:

 

Glass half full / glass half empty! Was Phil Neal crap or did he lay the groundwork for Bruce? Subjective I suppose, just like with Evatt and Santos!

[Traf]

I'm only joking, mate.

By and large Evatt & Santos both did great jobs for us, but both were kept beyond their best before dates.

[thebells]

2 minutes ago, Traf said:

I'm only joking, mate.

By and large Evatt & Santos both did great jobs for us, but both were kept beyond their best before dates.

Yep. Agree with that - sadly i think the last few months of Evatt in particular will affect how he is remembered by fans, but he put us back on the map and gave us 2 Wembley trips.

As for Santos, have a feeling we'll never see him play for us again. But on his day, there wasn't a better defender in League One or Two.

Anyway - onwards and (hopefully) upwards

[desperado]

57 minutes ago, thebells said:

As for Santos, have a feeling we'll never see him play for us again

If he fancies a crack at LB we might see him turn out tonight 😂

[CSW]

3 minutes ago, desperado said:

If he fancies a crack at LB we might see him turn out tonight 😂

Nah, he can only play in a 5. He’d have to be LWB 

[Whitesince63]

2 hours ago, thebells said:

My reply was mildly sarcastic but you've raised a good point about the 'wanting to win'. I guess that's what you're referring to. In terms of talent, we've moved well beyond him. But in terms of desire, that's perhaps where we're lacking.

Without wanting to drag up the past, i think Evatt's biggest issue was that he himself was a 'winner' in the Sarcevic mould as a player. But he had a clear identity he wanted to play to as a manager. His personal philosophy and managerial philosophy didn't always fit and clearly he was as frustrated as all of us when we lost the big games / derby games.

So i agree to an extent about the winners. I do think in players like Thomason, Johnstone (and the emerging Forrester), we are starting to see that. They're not perfect, but perhaps under Schumacher one or two of these will become our new leaders. I never really thought we needed a midfield 'bastard', but simply a player who was vocal and could rouse the crowd with one or two 'crunchers'. 

Sarcevic was instrumental in getting us out of League Two, just like we'll look back on Evatt and Santos as instrumental as getting us to the top of League One.

In summary, appreciate your response. And agree with you 🙂 

Cheers bells that exactly what I was trying, maybe clumsily, to say. I just think we lack a motivator like Sarce on the pitch and i think we’ve missed that since he left with Evatt just wanting to be in control of everything himself. Hopefully as you say one of our current players can step up that way because in any group you need at least one like that to always be looking to the positives especially when things are going against you. I think SS will breed that type of character into the team as he seems that way himself. 👍

[L/H White]

not sure why I've agreed to this, its baltic and I can't be arsed with people speaking welsh all night 

[athywhite1958]

23 minutes ago, L/H White said:

not sure why I've agreed to this, its baltic and I can't be arsed with people speaking welsh all night 

Bolton fans speaking Welsh all night????

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, thebells said:

Yes, what happened 😉

I'm sure you read my full post my fromage friend, where i referenced players we have who can change that. Saturday was great, but it'll take more than one game for the ghosts of the past to disappear.

 

Come on @thebells we've beaten Crawley 4-3, what more evidence do you need that any shortcomings we may have had went out the door when IE did 😀

[thebells]

4 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Come on @thebells we've beaten Crawley 4-3, what more evidence do you need that any shortcomings we may have had went out the door when IE did 😀

Haha indeed.

To be fair, in the latter days of IE i think we'd have been done at 1-3 down. New manager bounce probably pulled us through.

Football tends to work in cycles doesn't it and we're at the start of a new one. I think some of these players can become the 'Sarcevic' type, and the 3 I've named would be top of my list! 

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, thebells said:

Haha indeed.

To be fair, in the latter days of IE i think we'd have been done at 1-3 down. New manager bounce probably pulled us through.

Football tends to work in cycles doesn't it and we're at the start of a new one. I think some of these players can become the 'Sarcevic' type, and the 3 I've named would be top of my list! 

Think we fans played a big part too. If that had happened a month ago, the stadium would've been half empty before it went 2-3.

[Cheese]

11 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Come on @thebells we've beaten Crawley 4-3, what more evidence do you need that any shortcomings we may have had went out the door when IE did 😀

Doesn't matter who the opposition is. To come back from 3-1 down and win is tremendous. Liverpool lost to Plymouth on Sunday.

[woolli]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Doesn't matter who the opposition is. To come back from 3-1 down and win is tremendous. Liverpool lost to Plymouth on Sunday.

Liverpools reserves! But, yes, the comeback was impressive.

Edited February 11, 2025 by woolli
more info

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, woolli said:

Liverpools reserves!

Nope. It was the FA Cup. It was Liverpool.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 minutes ago, thebells said:

Haha indeed.

To be fair, in the latter days of IE i think we'd have been done at 1-3 down. New manager bounce probably pulled us through.

Football tends to work in cycles doesn't it and we're at the start of a new one. I think some of these players can become the 'Sarcevic' type, and the 3 I've named would be top of my list! 

I think where Sarcevic had a biggish influence, and I'm not arsed that he left when he did by the way, but he had a great habit of popping up with a goal.  The 3 you mentioned do a certain job in terms of leadership, but I always felt Sarce would drag us through when a goal was needed and he's carried that on at Stockport and Bradford (in L2 of course).

The Crawley goal was his best moment obviously, there were others, I was behind the nets at Lincoln when he notched the only goal for our 1st away win in L1 and he definitely had a bit of the talisman about him, which we haven't really replaced as @Whitesince63 says.  Tomo can score a great goal but only v Blackpool or Northampton 😀 

[Johnnyrotten]

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Doesn't matter who the opposition is. To come back from 3-1 down and win is tremendous. Liverpool lost to Plymouth on Sunday.

Playing devil's advocate, but course it matters who the opposition are.  If it was Villa U21s would it be as good as Birmingham in the league?  I'm absolutely not playing down how great the comeback was, but it was one of 4 home games against teams that will be relegated.  (Coincidentally we came from behind in 2 of the other 3). 

IE proved that who the opposition are is massively important, flat track bully and all that.   

Not sure of the significance of Plymouth v Liverpool in this?  If you're using that comparison, I could say the team at the bottom of the championship didn't concede a goal against the Premier league champions elect, and we conceded 3 against a team about to be relegated to L2.  A pointless comparison.

[woolli]

5 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Playing devil's advocate, but course it matters who the opposition are.  If it was Villa U21s would it be as good as Birmingham in the league?  I'm absolutely not playing down how great the comeback was, but it was one of 4 home games against teams that will be relegated.  (Coincidentally we came from behind in 2 of the other 3). 

IE proved that who the opposition are is massively important, flat track bully and all that.   

Not sure of the significance of Plymouth v Liverpool in this?  If you're using that comparison, I could say the team at the bottom of the championship didn't concede a goal against the Premier league champions elect, and we conceded 3 against a team about to be relegated to L2.  A pointless comparison.

You wont win!

[freds dad]

1 hour ago, athywhite1958 said:

Bolton fans speaking Welsh all night????

He’s meeting @Big E

[Casino]

23 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Think we fans played a big part too.

i think we need to remember this

even last season, most weeks it was very flat

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Casino said:

i think we need to remember this

even last season, most weeks it was very flat

I think the caveat I'd add to that is that they style of football Evatt and coaches who think like him play - dominating possession, the opposition settling into a "low block", patiently working an opening, etc. - makes it difficult to build an atmosphere

[Casino]

4 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I think the caveat I'd add to that is that they style of football Evatt and coaches who think like him play - dominating possession, the opposition settling into a "low block", patiently working an opening, etc. - makes it difficult to build an atmosphere

agreed

but thats not the point

20k in this league should be a massive positive - im not saying for a minute the support has been negative, but it hasn't always been what it could be