Stockport County (H)

[tomski]

Really want to go up. I’ll never sign up to the year down makes us stronger (don’t think you are saying this sincy) 

I think we just have to make sure we make the top 6 first before working out if we are ready.

If we don’t then I’ll be gutted but we go again. When Schumacher missed on 80 points (top 6) he stormed the league the year after.

One thing I did think is that Wooton or the other chap who scored are actual big men. Then I thought about Victor 😂

[desperado]

 

Thomason was LCB.

With, as @Stig said, license to stray into a deeper lying midfield position on the left.

I quite liked it, I wouldn’t mind seeing it again.

I didn’t think our defensive frailties were because of Thomason, his role and the way he executed it (he had a great game), more that Forino and Toal just had poor games regardless. 

[Tombwfc]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

If the ref gives the penalty and it is a clear penalty it changes the whole game. Now I can get he might miss something but then the second booking is not something he missed something he just did not give.

I am not sure why you think it is wrong to expect those decisions to beat Stockport County, who for the level a good well managed team. You need key moments to go your favour. Would we have won if they did ? Who knows, but it certainly would have helped. My initial point was that although we did not play well by any means or County did not let us play well we were well in the game and key decisions wrongly went against us. 

 

It would have been a different game, but we've played these for 180 minutes and the score is 0-6. And they've been the better side for the vast majority of play across the two games.

We've had more than a few times where us getting decisions (not saying they were wrong decisions) papered over the cracks a bit. Mansfield (h) was the obvious one, but also daft brainfart pens against Peterborough and Orient. If you're reliant on getting these every time you'll come unstuck.

If we'd played great yesterday and created chance after chance I'd have sympathy with the idea that we were unlucky. But it just seems a bit of a losers mentality to be talking about refereeing decisions after that. The real story (and the concerning one for the season) is that we didn't turn up again in another of these types of game.

[Rizlar]

8 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

It would have been a different game, but we've played these for 180 minutes and the score is 0-6. And they've been the better side for the vast majority of play across the two games.

We've had more than a few times where us getting decisions (not saying they were wrong decisions) papered over the cracks a bit. Mansfield (h) was the obvious one, but also daft brainfart pens against Peterborough and Orient. If you're reliant on getting these every time you'll come unstuck.

If we'd played great yesterday and created chance after chance I'd have sympathy with the idea that we were unlucky. But it just seems a bit of a losers mentality to be talking about refereeing decisions after that. The real story (and the concerning one for the season) is that we didn't turn up again in another of these types of game.

Spot on every team as decisions that go against them, the fact is we have again been beaten by a local rival .

[wakey]

Been off it a bit since the excellent 2nd half v Brum, and bucked the trend from previous SS games by being worse 2nd half in the 3 games since.

Hopefully just a bit of fatigue - both mental and physical - after an eventful couple of months.

Couple of weeks rest, come back strong for the run in and let's see where it takes us.

[Wanderlust]

3 hours ago, tomski said:

Not a pen for me. Knoyle should of gone all day long. Everyone knew he was coming off at HT.

Ref wasn’t having any of Collins yesterday. The ‘foul’ late on for the shove was nailed on. 

That’s the thing though. If you keep on diving as Collins, Sheehan and a couple of others on both teams did, you ain’t going to get the benefit of the doubt when a real foul happens. That said the ref was still a prick.

Noticed a few refs have been letting a lot go recently.

[Ani]

1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

 

It would have been a different game, but we've played these for 180 minutes and the score is 0-6. And they've been the better side for the vast majority of play across the two games.

We've had more than a few times where us getting decisions (not saying they were wrong decisions) papered over the cracks a bit. Mansfield (h) was the obvious one, but also daft brainfart pens against Peterborough and Orient. If you're reliant on getting these every time you'll come unstuck.

If we'd played great yesterday and created chance after chance I'd have sympathy with the idea that we were unlucky. But it just seems a bit of a losers mentality to be talking about refereeing decisions after that. The real story (and the concerning one for the season) is that we didn't turn up again in another of these types of game.

Not sure where I said we were unlucky.

i was replying to JohnnyRottens posts that implied we were played off the park yesterday.  We were nt. I was impressed with Stockport they played like a top six team and a few times their pace in attack showed us up. (Oh what I would given for a Nathan Blake type player in our team), but we were competitive in the game.
 

You use three games where correct decisions were made that helped us out to counter my point that incorrect decisions did not help us - then say that is a losers mentality ?  I would agree on the mentality comment if in training next week SS is telling the players how ‘unlucky’ we were and next it will all be ok, but surely a fans forum is a place to discuss it ? 
 

As I said I have no idea if we win with these decisions, plenty of times we have struggled v 10 men, missed many penalties , but anyone saying they would not have improved our chances in a game we lost 1-0 is just plain wrong. 
 

 

Edited March 16, 2025 by Ani

[Ani]

2 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

That’s the thing though. If you keep on diving as Collins, Sheehan and a couple of others on both teams did, you ain’t going to get the benefit of the doubt when a real foul happens. That said the ref was still a prick.

Noticed a few refs have been letting a lot go recently.

I agree on the diving but Ben Toner is the same ref that did not send Cosgrove off for the lunge on Toal at Wembley he is a terrible ref. 
 

Weak as piss, why not book Collins for diving ? 
 

If it was a rugby game and we measured yards gained they must have gone the length of the pitch for the distance nicked on throw ins. 
 

(none of which affected the result - but annoying , in first half in front of us in ESL it ten yards a time , he moved them back 2 yards and they then just walked forward - I do not think we practice throw ins so are too daft to do it) 

Edited March 16, 2025 by Ani

[Zico]

41 minutes ago, wakey said:

Been off it a bit since the excellent 2nd half v Brum, and bucked the trend from previous SS games by being worse 2nd half in the 3 games since.

Hopefully just a bit of fatigue - both mental and physical - after an eventful couple of months.

Couple of weeks rest, come back strong for the run in and let's see where it takes us.

Aye 

I think we'll have a pretty good idea of what we can expect this season after we've played Wigan 

[gonzo]

1 hour ago, desperado said:

 

Thomason was LCB.

With, as @Stig said, license to stray into a deeper lying midfield position on the left.

I quite liked it, I wouldn’t mind seeing it again.

I didn’t think our defensive frailties were because of Thomason, his role and the way he executed it (he had a great game), more that Forino and Toal just had poor games regardless. 

That's exactly what it was. 

It was OK but soon as we switched to that we started to get overrun in midfield.

Our problems yesterday were upfield.

Creating fuck all and slow tempo from the back.

Credit to Stockport, once they scored they made us play that way.

Trying to break down an organised bank of ten with Wing Backs and two number 10s is usually an impossible situation. They were that deep one of their centre halves was having browse round Botany Bay.

We won't be the last team to struggle to break a team down like that. It's so frustrating to watch.

[Johnnyrotten]

11 hours ago, Ani said:

You seem to have a very negative view on every aspect of the game today.

2 questions

1 Should it have been a penalty of the challenge on Collins early on

2 Given the lad had already been booked should he have gone for the block on McAtee ?

Both in the first half.

I agree Stockport looked decent today playing a system they are comfortable with but you have to admit if the 2 decisions above go our way it is a totally different game. 
 

The ref was incredibly weak on just basics like where throw ins were taken from and the drop ball he gave them when closest they came to having the ball was Sheehan being kicked in the head. 

You must  have missed my comments on the performances of Tomo and Baxter if you only picked up on critical comments.  I'm unsure how anyone could claim we were the better team, irrespective of the ref.

I was appealing for a pen like everyone, I've not seen it since, I am just judging the overall relative performances of the 2 teams, and they were better than us on the day.  But yes of course a pen changes the mood in the first half, I'm sure SS won't be thinking we don't have to improve because the defeat was just down to the ref's decisions? 

And yes if he gets sent off it changes the 2nd half, I can't argue with that, my genuine opinion was it would have been a harsh yellow as he had nowhere to go, McAtee sort of ran into him, plenty of times they aren't given as a foul and very rarely a booking, I'm not sure how deliberate it was - happy to be corrected if it was blatantly a block rather than just being "in the way".  More of a red card was that challenge on Tutu early on, when Tutu did him a huge favour getting up so quickly.

The ref had a stinker, that farce when they gave 3 minutes 1st half injury time, then carried on treating the Stockport player for 45 seconds (I checked) before play resumed.  Then the keeper delayed taking a goal kick for 30 seconds and the ref blew before he even took it!  Ridiculously incompetent.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 hours ago, gonzo said:

 

 

 

First time I've seen that - stonewall pen, the JDB-lookalike admits as much by looking at the ref with his hands up.  Nobody does that if they haven't fouled the player.  Ref started badly and got worse.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 hours ago, L/H White said:

Yesterday was like watching us play Wigan 

Had an inevitability about from the off

We'd love to still be in the game after an hour v Wigan!  I remember having that thought in the 2nd half at 0-0, grateful to still have a competitive match to watch in a local derby, it doesn't happen often.  And we did play OK for a 10 or 15 minute spell when we penned them back, we were in a match. 

Against Wigan here we don't even get a contest beyond half an hour, which makes their hold over us all the more bizarre, its not like they are better than other teams we play, but they rap the game up in the 1st half.

[deeane Koontz]

Missed the match. How did Randall fare?

[Ani]

4 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

Missed the match. How did Randall fare?

Had his best game since he arrived.

But still only a 4 or 5 out of 10. Actually feel sorry for him as he is just not the type of player we needed in Jan. 

[Jol_BWFC]

7 minutes ago, Ani said:

Had his best game since he arrived.

But still only a 4 or 5 out of 10. Actually feel sorry for him as he is just not the type of player we needed in Jan. 

Randall was Evatts’s plan A(iv). Just another variation on a failing system. Hasn’t worked for us, hasn’t worked for Randall; the only one it worked for is Peterborough’s bank account.

[gonzo]

22 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

Missed the match. How did Randall fare?

I'm not having him yet mate

Theres more tackle in my glove box right now.

He's everything we don't need.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 hours ago, tomski said:

Really want to go up. I’ll never sign up to the year down makes us stronger (don’t think you are saying this sincy) 

I think we just have to make sure we make the top 6 first before working out if we are ready.

If we don’t then I’ll be gutted but we go again. When Schumacher missed on 80 points (top 6) he stormed the league the year after.

One thing I did think is that Wooton or the other chap who scored are actual big men. Then I thought about Victor 😂

The same year we were paying half a mil for him County signed Wooton on a free from Notts County in the National League and Olaofe from Millwall for a small fee (he'd been playing for Sutton on loan in Div 2).  It shows the importance of recruitment, not saying they'd fire us to promotion but I know which I'd rather we were playing against.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 hours ago, desperado said:

 

Thomason was LCB.

With, as @Stig said, license to stray into a deeper lying midfield position on the left.

I quite liked it, I wouldn’t mind seeing it again.

I didn’t think our defensive frailties were because of Thomason, his role and the way he executed it (he had a great game), more that Forino and Toal just had poor games regardless. 

I thought Forino played well apart from the goal and that pass early on which put them in with a chance (don't know how he didn't get booked for the lunge but I haven't seen it back).  He won about 100 headers, distribution was calm and assured, battled gamely with their physical strikers, not saying he was perfect but he was a positive for me.

On Tomo's position, I'll bow to greater knowledge and insight, but this "license to go into midfield" is a strange one.  Which players don't have a license to go into midfield?  Toal and the full backs do it every single game, whether we are playing 4 or 5 at the back, and the strikers don't just play up front, they clearly have a license to go into midfield (and defence in McAtee's case).  The players don't have a zone that they are restricted to, its fluid as the game progresses.  Tomo played like a full back that likes to get forward yesterday, like most full backs do.  Anyway, he can play there again if that's how much it suits him.

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, Ani said:

Not sure where I said we were unlucky.

i was replying to JohnnyRottens posts that implied we were played off the park yesterday.  We were nt. I was impressed with Stockport they played like a top six team and a few times their pace in attack showed us up. (Oh what I would given for a Nathan Blake type player in our team), but we were competitive in the game.
 

You use three games where correct decisions were made that helped us out to counter my point that incorrect decisions did not help us - then say that is a losers mentality ?  I would agree on the mentality comment if in training next week SS is telling the players how ‘unlucky’ we were and next it will all be ok, but surely a fans forum is a place to discuss it ? 
 

As I said I have no idea if we win with these decisions, plenty of times we have struggled v 10 men, missed many penalties , but anyone saying they would not have improved our chances in a game we lost 1-0 is just plain wrong. 
 

 

I never said or suggested we were played off the park, not sure where you got that from.  I'm not reading back my exact quote, but my general feeling was that they were just a better team than us on the day, that's a lot different to getting played off the park (0-4 v Hudds and 0-5 at County would fall into that category). 

I even commented on it still being a competitive game upto the end, it was never game over.  We were clearly superior on the day to Shrewsbury, Crawley and Burton but I wouldn't claim we played them off the park.  

[tomski]

31 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

The same year we were paying half a mil for him County signed Wooton on a free from Notts County in the National League and Olaofe from Millwall for a small fee (he'd been playing for Sutton on loan in Div 2).  It shows the importance of recruitment, not saying they'd fire us to promotion but I know which I'd rather we were playing against.

Couldn’t agree more.

[Big E]

1 hour ago, deeane Koontz said:

Missed the match. How did Randall fare?

The lad constantly shows for the ball knowing he isn’t on 

[ianofcleveleys]

5 hours ago, desperado said:

 

Thomason was LCB.

With, as @Stig said, license to stray into a deeper lying midfield position on the left.

I quite liked it, I wouldn’t mind seeing it again.

I didn’t think our defensive frailties were because of Thomason, his role and the way he executed it (he had a great game), more that Forino and Toal just had poor games regardless. 

I'd agree with that, was LCB for me from the off, he had a really decent game, wasn't found out defensively and played it forward reliably, they didn't really create a great deal of any concern in his area. Forino and Toal had their hands full with their opponents (especially second half) and the downside of Tomo being at LCB was the protection from midfield was flimsy.

We are a side who need two stronger physical players in two positions, one in front of the back three and one behind the front two. 

[Rizlar]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

I'm not having him yet mate

Theres more tackle in my glove box right now.

He's everything we don't need.

Correct and playing both him and Sheehan makes us weak as piss it’s 1 or the other for me and if SS plays them both in the next 2 games we are doomed . 

[Lostock Whites]

I mean let's be honest the club and the board f'd up big time this season by keeping Evatt way longer than his stay.

Even absurdly gave him January as a very last hope to save himself, which resulted in him changing the squad all to be sacked along with Markham half way into the window.

Big money on Randall, also signing Murphy and Etete on loan. Would Schumacher have signed any of those players?

Saying all of this it is what it is, we can't change the past, the board f'd up big time and yet we are still more than capable of getting top 6 and have a chance of promotion.

My worry is that in those big matches and play off games we are a few bodies light in areas, but let's just give it the best we've got. We've beaten Birmingham, Huddersfield, got a result at Wrexham, we are still more than capable.

My biggest ask for Schuey and for the players for the rest of the season is can we be more solid? Can we stop leaking goals left, right and centre? Rico and Dempsey coming back could also be huge but if we can tighten the defence up a bit, it would be massive come the tight play off games should we be there.

Edited March 16, 2025 by Lostock Whites