Port Vale (A)

[tomski]

10 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said:

That’s also what worries me

we’re 3rd and by all accounts had not written off the automatics. We are the hunters rather than the hunted. We were hoping for a Cardiff wobble and that wobble has arrived. If the players can’t handle the pressure when there is non. How the fuck will they be able to handle it over a potential 3 game play off period when it’s shit or bust

If you are having to have refreshing conversations now when the carrot is potential automatic promotion, the very thing they have been working towards all season and no one expects you to get it then we may as well give up. 

Can’t argue any of that but I’m trying to legitimise in my head that it’s all part of the plan 😂

[Tonge moor green jacket]

No one would mind if performances were a bit meh, if we won most games. 

If functional, pragmatic way to promotion. 

We have won games this season whilst not being great.

I always advocated though, that in order to win most games, performances simply can't continually be "bad". They might not always be beautiful for the purest, but they have to have certain qualities to maintain winning.

We are a third division team when all is said and done.

What is noticeable, is that when we have scabbed a win or two, that performances don't necessarily improve with ehat should be gained confidence, and sometimes continue to be flat, with mixed results.

Where this has come from, who knows, but there is a bit of a pattern. 

 

[barrycowdrill]

2 minutes ago, tomski said:

Can’t argue any of that but I’m trying to legitimise in my head that it’s all part of the plan 😂

Maybe it’s just the modern day footballer? Are we asking too much of them in terms of character based on the types we have seen before? Who knows. But whatever they class as a “leader” in today’s dressing room I ain’t having 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

20 minutes ago, tomski said:

Yesterday was guff but in the grand scheme of things may be a decent wake up call.

Being undefeated can mask a lot of things and hopefully a few refreshing conversations are had and we start to kick on.

Take your point, but those conversations should have been happening already.

Poor performances, and draws against lowly teams, and now a defeat.

Coupled with selection from the sorting hat, and it is concerning. 

[Farnywhite]

We were told at the start of the season by everyone at the club the aim was autos how how many other clubs had a same  aim ? , Cardiff , Luton , Stockport , Huddersfield. 

In that respect we have failed already we might get another shot in the play offs but if SS fails to win it or get us in the playoffs he should go .
2 chances are enough and by keeping hold of evatt after Oxford was the wrong decision 

SS gives me the impression he can’t handle the pressure starting to look a bit defensive in is interviews 

[tomski]

3 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said:

Maybe it’s just the modern day footballer? Are we asking too much of them in terms of character based on the types we have seen before? Who knows. But whatever they class as a “leader” in today’s dressing room I ain’t having 

No it’s defo changed. @DazBob and myself were chatting to an ex player a few weeks ago in Manchester who is still in touch with players now and the first thing discussed that the expectation is too big with us. I found it disappointing as you’d think they’d thrive off being the big fish and all that. Defo a change in mentality over the last few years in terms of always looking for the negative over the positive.

[Eddie]

I’ve more and more come round to @Johnnyrotten’s view that there is no set formation or line up that will solve the problem. We all have our views on what should change when things aren’t great, but often they’re then tried and also fail. A lot of it comes down to the inconsistency of individual players and whether they deliver on any specific day (that being said, Donny was clearly the wrong set up).

However, having said all of that I think we’re naive away from home and given the fact our 2 first choice wingers are injured, and others aren’t stepping up, I can’t understand why he doesn’t go back to what shored us up at the start of the year and play a 352 with wingbacks.

It puts Conway and Tutu in their preferred spots. It means you don’t need to rely on any poor combination of 2 from our centre backs, it means Kenny can play up alongside Dalby rather than having one of them in the 10 role or on the wing and it means we can have Sheehan in a 3 man midfield, which we know is where he’s best.

There will always be the inconsistency of player performances, especially with a group of L1 players, but putting as many square pegs in square holes would at least give them the best chance in the first place.

[Rizlar]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I’ve more and more come round to @Johnnyrotten’s view that there is no set formation or line up that will solve the problem. We all have our views on what should change when things aren’t great, but often they’re then tried and also fail. A lot of it comes down to the inconsistency of individual players and whether they deliver on any specific day (that being said, Donny was clearly the wrong set up).

However, having said all of that I think we’re naive away from home and given the fact our 2 first choice wingers are injured, and others aren’t stepping up, I can’t understand why he doesn’t go back to what shored us up at the start of the year and play a 352 with wingbacks.

It puts Conway and Tutu in their preferred spots. It means you don’t need to rely on any poor combination of 2 from our centre backs, it means Kenny can play up alongside Dalby rather than having one of them in the 10 role or on the wing and it means we can have Sheehan in a 3 man midfield, which we know is where he’s best.

There will always be the inconsistency of player performances, especially with a group of L1 players, but putting as many square pegs in square holes would at least give them the best chance in the first place.

Spot on my thoughts 👍 

[barrycowdrill]

4 minutes ago, tomski said:

No it’s defo changed. @DazBob and myself were chatting to an ex player a few weeks ago in Manchester who is still in touch with players now and the first thing discussed that the expectation is too big with us. I found it disappointing as you’d think they’d thrive off being the big fish and all that. Defo a change in mentality over the last few years in terms of always looking for the negative over the positive.

Amazing as one of the things players talk about in their interviews when joining is the size of the club, its expectations and the fan base. At this level we’re probably the pinnacle of where they would expect to reach an you would hope they do not take that for granted and really use it as a platform to show what they can do. Feels like it makes them shrink and go the other way 

[Zico]

38 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

He has in many ways been found out. The main one being let both Toal and Johnston have the ball, do not attempt to tackle them they will walk out slowly then they will either back pass or turn over the ball. Concede a corner and leave the fastest player on the half way line and hit it long to him no worries only TuTu will be back defending and he cannot tackle and Toal and Johnston will walk back to the halfway line once the ball is in the net.....Ohh and do not worry about the keeper his positioning is woeful from corners instead of what 999 keepers would do when their team have a corner and stand outside the box ready to kick any long clearance out yes dont laugh he will be rooted to his line.

Same ole,same ole

So what was happening before we were found out?

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, tomski said:

No it’s defo changed. @DazBob and myself were chatting to an ex player a few weeks ago in Manchester who is still in touch with players now and the first thing discussed that the expectation is too big with us. I found it disappointing as you’d think they’d thrive off being the big fish and all that. Defo a change in mentality over the last few years in terms of always looking for the negative over the positive.

The expectation of Bolton Wanderers being in the 3rd tier, whether people like it or not “credit in the bank” is gone - whether that’s players, manager, ownership.

It’s exactly why we need a captain that’s been there, seen it, not phased by it, knows how to deal with it and settle the rest of the squad down. Toal and Johnston are as far from the leader that we need with those heightened expectations - if there’s one player from our relatively recent past that I would love in this team it would be Karl Henry. The absolute mentality that is needed to lead a Bolton team spending its 7th season below the Championship.

[Zico]

Fucks sake

 

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, Zico said:

Fucks sake

 

It’s a lot to ask of young Bobby

[ZiggyStardust]

36 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said:

I’d argue it’s a lot more than a 1 off, last Tues, last sat and Blackpool games show it’s at least a 3 off before we even get in to the 

burton (a) 

Northampton (a) 

Northampton (h)

Doncaster (a) 

Blackpool (a) 

orient (a) 

Mansfield (h) 

examples 

 

 

Yeah. But other than the 10 examples you've listed, it's a one off.

[masi 51]

10 minutes ago, Zico said:

So what was happening before we were found out?

It has been like this for the last three seasons first under Evatt and now it is getting that way with Schumacher.Johnston and Toal are decent defenders but awful footballers. Someone put statts on here saying Johnston has had the most touches this season by any player....That is the problem. We have Tutu,Conway, Toal and Johnston who are defenders who get caught upfield time and time again. Teams are playing the counter attack game against us

 

[gonzo]

41 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said:

I’d argue it’s a lot more than a 1 off, last Tues, last sat and Blackpool games show it’s at least a 3 off before we even get in to the 

burton (a) 

Northampton (a) 

Northampton (h)

Doncaster (a) 

Blackpool (a) 

orient (a) 

Mansfield (h) 

examples 

 

 

Absolute kryptonite those games.

They're the game Wrexham shithoused their way to winning and Lincoln just simply win.

Until we crack those grim fixtures it's play offs all the way whichever season we are looking at.

[barrycowdrill]

3 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Someone put statts on here saying Johnston has had the most touches this season by any player

Most passes by anyone in L1 this season. By some distance too 

[desperado]

29 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said:

Maybe it’s just the modern day footballer? Are we asking too much of them in terms of character based on the types we have seen before? Who knows. But whatever they class as a “leader” in today’s dressing room I ain’t having 

I think it’s very much the modern day footballer.

Most of us are one two generations away from them.

It’s the equivalent of when I listened to my dad and granddad go on about the players from eras gone by.

Different mentality.

I see Toal getting a disproportionate amount of grief on Twatter for his post match interview. 
 

 

[jmjhb]

Just looking at last season.

46 games: 18 defeats and 70 conceded!

39 games: 7 defeats and 39 conceded.

So yes, things have improved but it's always going to be two steps, one step back

 

[barrycowdrill]

6 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Absolute kryptonite those games.

They're the game Wrexham shithoused their way to winning and Lincoln just simply win.

Until we crack those grim fixtures it's play offs all the way whichever season we are looking at.

Recurring theme throughout them too 

away and they’re difficult places to go where the surface may not be the best, tight pitches where teams ask you a question 

home games it’s where teams come and bank in and ask you to break them down 

but the same old problems have persisted, the minute the back 4 are challenged they crumble, then slow and ponderous build up play makes it easy for the opposition to stay solid, when we do create chances players are too selfish and/or aren’t clinical enough 

as I said earlier, decision making is piss poor across the board. 

Edited Sunday at 10:54 by barrycowdrill

[barrycowdrill]

4 minutes ago, desperado said:

I think it’s very much the modern day footballer.

Most of us are one two generations away from them.

It’s the equivalent of when I listened to my dad and granddad go on about the players from eras gone by.

Different mentality.

I see Toal getting a disproportionate amount of grief on Twatter for his post match interview. 
 

 

Nostalgia does ring true sometimes though, if this mob had 10% of the grit, determination and character that the taggart, fairclough, Sheridan, Thommo, McGinley era had, I think a) we’d go home relatively content win lose or draw and b) we’d of pissed the league 

[jmjhb]

Also been looking at Lincoln. Skubala joined in Feb 2023.

11th in 22/23 with a whopping 20 draws

7th in 23/24

11th in 24/25 with more defeats than wins; there were definitely calls for his sacking

25/26 everything obviously came to fruition

[ZiggyStardust]

4 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

Just looking at last season.

46 games: 18 defeats and 70 conceded!

39 games: 7 defeats and 39 conceded.

So yes, things have improved but it's always going to be two steps, one step back

 

After 39 Games:

24/25:

6

Bolton Wanderers

39

19

6

14

61

57

4

63

25/26:

3

Bolton Wanderers

39

17

15

7

55

39

16

66

 

Better goal difference, 3 points more.

More than a season that was so shit, it saw the manager get sacked.

It does fell same old, same old.

[desperado]

5 minutes ago, barrycowdrill said:

Nostalgia does ring true sometimes though, if this mob had 10% of the grit, determination and character that the taggart, fairclough, Sheridan, Thommo, McGinley era had, I think a) we’d go home relatively content win lose or draw and b) we’d of pissed the league 

I agree, I think we would too.

But for me it’s just not comparable.

Bonding in the war years and going down the pit.

Bonding by going getting pissed up and shagging a few birds after Ritzy.

To today’s lads who won’t even be in the same room after training. They’re on their gaming headphones or making TicTok videos. 

 

[Tombwfc]

29 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

After 39 Games:

24/25:

6

Bolton Wanderers

39

19

6

14

61

57

4

63

25/26:

3

Bolton Wanderers

39

17

15

7

55

39

16

66

 

Better goal difference, 3 points more.

More than a season that was so shit, it saw the manager get sacked.

It does fell same old, same old.

 

Yeah, I don't follow the logic that we've improved drastically from last season. Especially when most of that is based on the collapse at the end that SS was in charge for.

As has been stated many times this season, this is a particularly poor set of L1 teams. 2nd are currently going at less than 2ppg. In the last two seasons 6th finished with 78 and 76 points. You might come third with that this year.

For a team with clear, endlessly stated ambitions of getting automatic promotion, being a distant third in this division isn't progress or an achievement of any kind. A month ago Lincoln were a flash in the pan destined to fall away, now they're being painted as a juggernaut we could never compete with. They aren't anything special, but they have just beaten the dross over and over again.

As has come up before on here, we're not a patch on the side that finished 3rd two years ago. But the fortunate thing is we don't need to be to win the playoffs this time.