Politics

[Mounts Kipper]

The open ended date of the backstop is the main issue and if that can be time limited then the backstop should be acceptable to the main protagonists, surely both sides can come up with something that resolves this issue, that’s if there is a will. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Moon boy]

2 hours ago, TM Trotter said:

But it won't be a 'shocking mess' because Nigel, Man of the People, promised we'd all be able to grow magic money trees in our back yards once we're free from nasty EU tyranny.

You're such an England-hating traitor for having these negative, unhelpful thoughts!! Brexit means Brexit, shut up snowflake, you lost. 

If you and BWFCfan 5 aren’t the same person you must be twins

Your rant about NF is deranged, neither you or me or anyone else can predict with 100% certainty what will happen when we leave the EU but the 17.4million won the Democratic right to find out.

If we ever get round to having  a GE suppose the Conservative party win a small majority will the opposition Labour, SDP ect now decide that they won’t accept the vote and spend 3years trying to overturn this and take control of Parliament to implement their agenda.

The FTPA looks like a good idea now because if it takes 5 years to implement the previous vote we are then ready for another GE

 

[Spider]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The open ended date of the backstop is the main issue and if that can be time limited then the backstop should be acceptable to the main protagonists, surely both sides can come up with something that resolves this issue, that’s if there is a will. 

There isn't, nor is there a solution everyone would agree to anyway.

It's worth remembering that this particular part of the world took over 30 years to agree to the current state of affairs, and that's fragile at best.

It's a fucking tinderbox and Brexit could easily re-ignite it.

[Spider]

Just to give a number

There are 329 major & minor border crossings. 329 places where a vehicle can currently pass unchecked.

That doesn't include a fair number of single track roads and farmland, obvs.

Bloke I know crosses the border several times a day as part of his job in the heating industry. He is very keen to hear from the UK govt. if they will make him stop and show his passport 30+ times every single week, and have his van checked.

Bear in mind, after Brexit, he could be buying cheap gear in Sterling from the north, and effectively smuggling it into the EU and not paying all his duties on the goods, thereby gaining an advantage over his EU counterparts. Bernier won't like that.

He is one of thousands and thousands of examples of what awaits.

Anyone who thinks there's a quick and easy fix to this wants putting in a cage.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Spider

[bwfcfan5]

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

Just to give a number

There are 329 major & minor border crossings. 329 places where a vehicle can currently pass unchecked.

That doesn't include a fair number of single track roads and farmland, obvs.

Bloke I know crosses the border several times a day as part of his job in the heating industry. He is very keen to hear from the UK govt. if they will make him stop and show his passport 30+ times every single week, and have his van checked.

Bear in mind, after Brexit, he could be buying cheap gear in Sterling from the north, and effectively smuggling it into the EU and not paying all his duties on the goods, thereby gaining an advantage over his EU counterparts. Bernier won't like that.

He is one of thousands and thousands of examples of what awaits.

Anyone who thinks there's a quick and easy fix to this wants putting in a cage.

And beyond the EU not being happy that also means we are breaking international trading law and could be challenged. As an example we might be in effect offering a preferential route for American goods via Ireland compared to say, North African goods via Dover. That is potentially immediately challenged by the EU and other traders. Unless of course had open borders everywhere. 

 

 

[Mounts Kipper]

30 minutes ago, Spider said:

There isn't, nor is there a solution everyone would agree to anyway.

It's worth remembering that this particular part of the world took over 30 years to agree to the current state of affairs, and that's fragile at best.

It's a fucking tinderbox and Brexit could easily re-ignite it.

The deal is close it just requires an amicable solution on the backstop and for sure there will a solution agreed. 

[fatolive]

9 minutes ago, Spider said:

Just to give a number

There are 329 major & minor border crossings. 329 places where a vehicle can currently pass unchecked.

That doesn't include a fair number of single track roads and farmland, obvs.

Bloke I know crosses the border several times a day as part of his job in the heating industry. He is very keen to hear from the UK govt. if they will make him stop and show his passport 30+ times every single week, and have his van checked.

Bear in mind, after Brexit, he could be buying cheap gear in Sterling from the north, and effectively smuggling it into the EU and not paying all his duties on the goods, thereby gaining an advantage over his EU counterparts. Bernier won't like that.

He is one of thousands and thousands of examples of what awaits.

Anyone who thinks there's a quick and easy fix to this wants putting in a cage.

Indeed, plus the border splits premises and streets these days.

its been mentioned throughout and dismissed as a red herring.

there’s no easy fix but of them all, NI only back stop and special area status to remove the need for land borders is the most workable in my opinion, apart from upsetting the DUP lot, which is an issue, but they don’t represent all unionists never mind all NI and seeing as they want separate laws distinguishing them when it suits think they could get used to it with another few quid and a promise of a bridge ... 

[Traf]

20 minutes ago, Spider said:

Just to give a number

There are 329 major & minor border crossings. 329 places where a vehicle can currently pass unchecked.

That doesn't include a fair number of single track roads and farmland, obvs.

Some perspective here...

On the Eastern side of the EU, there are 137 border crossings to/from the EU in its entirety.

 

[Spider]

29 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The deal is close it just requires an amicable solution on the backstop and for sure there will a solution agreed. 

What's the solution?

We are 29 days away and STILL no-one will say.

You keep repeating the words but there are no actions.

I'll ask again - What Is The Solution?

[bwfcfan5]

25 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Indeed, plus the border splits premises and streets these days.

its been mentioned throughout and dismissed as a red herring.

there’s no easy fix but of them all, NI only back stop and special area status to remove the need for land borders is the most workable in my opinion, apart from upsetting the DUP lot, which is an issue, but they don’t represent all unionists never mind all NI and seeing as they want separate laws distinguishing them when it suits think they could get used to it with another few quid and a promise of a bridge ... 

Isn't a UK wide customs union the easiest and most appropriate solution?

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, Spider said:

What's the solution?

We are 29 days away and STILL no-one will say.

You keep repeating the words but there are no actions.

I'll ask again - What Is The Solution?

Secret Technology🤔

[Spider]

3 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Secret Technology🤔

Might be an idea to let the few thousand tradesmen who are shitting themselves know what it is fairly soon.

Very little unites the catholics and protestants in that neck of the woods, but they are absolutely as one when it comes to feeling like they're being treated like shit.

[fatolive]

4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Isn't a UK wide customs union the easiest and most appropriate solution?

Possibly , but people don’t want that so I was talking re the NI issue, rest of Britain not in the custom union and leave  as people wanted when they voted ,NI as a separate entity to that, seeing as they voted remain in that region ,to remove the need for that specific issue of border control  

musings more than predictions tbh 

[Salford Trotter]

56 minutes ago, Spider said:

Just to give a number

There are 329 major & minor border crossings. 329 places where a vehicle can currently pass unchecked.

That doesn't include a fair number of single track roads and farmland, obvs.

Bloke I know crosses the border several times a day as part of his job in the heating industry. He is very keen to hear from the UK govt. if they will make him stop and show his passport 30+ times every single week, and have his van checked.

Bear in mind, after Brexit, he could be buying cheap gear in Sterling from the north, and effectively smuggling it into the EU and not paying all his duties on the goods, thereby gaining an advantage over his EU counterparts. Bernier won't like that.

He is one of thousands and thousands of examples of what awaits.

Anyone who thinks there's a quick and easy fix to this wants putting in a cage.

Border checks in South Armagh will be fun though I wouldn't fancy manning it

[Spider]

Why don't all the "Rangers" types in NI swap places with all the "Celtic" types in Glasgow?

That way, the Celtic lot can wave their Ireland flags in Ireland, the Rangers lot can wave their union flags in the union, and everyone's happy?

 

Spider for PM!!

Edited October 1, 2019 by Spider

[TM Trotter]

3 hours ago, Moon boy said:

If you and BWFCfan 5 aren’t the same person you must be twins

Your rant about NF is deranged, neither you or me or anyone else can predict with 100% certainty what will happen when we leave the EU but the 17.4million won the Democratic right to find out.

If we ever get round to having  a GE suppose the Conservative party win a small majority will the opposition Labour, SDP ect now decide that they won’t accept the vote and spend 3years trying to overturn this and take control of Parliament to implement their agenda.

The FTPA looks like a good idea now because if it takes 5 years to implement the previous vote we are then ready for another GE

 

Heaven forbid there are two people in this world who think the likes of 'NF' (quite an apt acronym) are toxic liars. 

---

Mounts, cards on the table, I have generally voted Labour, barring a brief flirtation with the Lib Dems when Nick Clegg shamelessly lied for votes. Once bitten and all that - probably why I wasn't exactly keen on putting my X next to 'Leave' in 2016.

I must ask: why are you interested? Did my answer match what you expected?

[leigh white]

1 hour ago, Spider said:

Why don't all the "Rangers" types in NI swap places with all the "Celtic" types in Glasgow?

That way, the Celtic lot can wave their Ireland flags in Ireland, the Rangers lot can wave their union flags in the union, and everyone's happy?

 

Spider for PM!!

I think the logistics in that maneuvering would require a lot of thought.

[Spider]

3 minutes ago, leigh white said:

I think the logistics in that maneuvering would require a lot of thought.

Nonsense.

we won the war. 

The only thing required is British Can Do attitude and a willingness to compromise on both sides.

Don't be such a snowflake.

[leigh white]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

Nonsense.

we won the war. 

The only thing required is British Can Do attitude and a willingness to compromise on both sides.

Don't be such a snowflake.

Ha ha, spoke to Austrian folk who would never cross the border to Slovakia because they got kicked out after the war.

[Mounts Kipper]

19 minutes ago, TM Trotter said:

Heaven forbid there are two people in this world who think the likes of 'NF' (quite an apt acronym) are toxic liars. 

---

Mounts, cards on the table, I have generally voted Labour, barring a brief flirtation with the Lib Dems when Nick Clegg shamelessly lied for votes. Once bitten and all that - probably why I wasn't exactly keen on putting my X next to 'Leave' in 2016.

I must ask: why are you interested? Did my answer match what you expected?

I asked because 85% of people voted for parties who supported leave, and you were one of them curiously.

I suggest you vote lib/dem next time as the next GE is a 3rd in/out vote it’s 2-0 to leave it’ll be 3-0 after the next GE,  how many more times do we need to do this before you and your ilk get the fucking message? 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Spider]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

I asked because 85% of people voted for parties who supported leave, and you were one of them curiously.

I suggest you vote lib/dem next time as the next GE is a 3rd in out vote it’s 2-0 to leave it’ll be 3-0 next time, how many more times do we need to do this before you and your ilk get the fucking message? 

Tell me about the solutions for the Irish border

I'm 100% behind the resultof the vote. We're beyond that now - how do we solve Ireland.

And it has to be very specific details. None of this politician bullshit about "solutions being ready" and "all sides are working towards blah rhubard wiffle cockshit"

[leigh white]

5 minutes ago, Spider said:

Tell me about the solutions for the Irish border

I'm 100% behind the resultof the vote. We're beyond that now - how do we solve Ireland.

And it has to be very specific details. None of this politician bullshit about "solutions being ready" and "all sides are working towards blah rhubard wiffle cockshit"

Alan Turing would be struggling with this problem.

[Spider]

1 minute ago, leigh white said:

Alan Turing would be struggling with this problem.

And here, finally, is the actual heart of the matter.

The result of the referendum is not in dispute, nor should it be.

But - and it's a fucking gargantuan but with bells as big as planets on - but, should we push on with a Brexit that will cause part of the UK and our only geographical EU neighbour to descend into utter chaos?

Solving 1 "problem" only to create an even bigger one? Makes no sense to me.

Is it actually worth it?

Personally, I don't think so anymore. If it weren't for the Irish problem I think Brexit would just about be ok.

The Irish problem makes Brexit impossible for me.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, Spider said:

Tell me about the solutions for the Irish border

I'm 100% behind the resultof the vote. We're beyond that now - how do we solve Ireland.

And it has to be very specific details. None of this politician bullshit about "solutions being ready" and "all sides are working towards blah rhubard wiffle cockshit"

They're publishing it in a few days.

Make judgements on it then. Why keep asking folk who aren't involved; why is mounts or anyone on here in a position to answer. Negotiatiotors etc will produce ideas/documents/proposals etc.

No doubt the EU will say it's a no go, then they'll start talking again.

Then they might reach a deal. Or maybe not.

Which might be accepted by parliament, or not.

Fuck em.

 

[Spider]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

They're publishing it in a few days.

Make judgements on it then. Why keep asking folk who aren't involved; why is mounts or anyone on here in a position to answer. Negotiatiotors etc will produce ideas/documents/proposals etc.

No doubt the EU will say it's a no go, then they'll start talking again.

Then they might reach a deal. Or maybe not.

Which might be accepted by parliament, or not.

Fuck em.

 

Mounts is telling us it will be ok.

I'm simply asking how he knows that.