Politics

[Moon boy]

2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Its just like claiming remainers all said the "sky would fall in". The fact is that if you take a balanced view - the leave side did promise all sorts pre referendum - that were simply lies.

The government of the day's warning about the economic impact have in part been seen. We have seen lowered GDP, reduction in the value of the pound and a stagnant economy. It would have been worse but for BoE's quantitative easing. 

So one side told us things that were plainly not true. The other at best exaggerated. But lets be clear about this - the leave side pretended we could easily within months strike a deal with the EU that would be at the very least as advantageous as the current one we've got and would be better very quickly. When anyone on the remain side said that wasn't the case they were told "project fear". This is documented very clearly - it is simply true that Brexiteers promises pre referendum have one by one been backtracked upon. 

Article 50 takes 2years to complete, so nobody said we could get a deal ‘ within months”

Boris has only been in the job 2 months but he is in the process of getting a deal, why it took TM over 3years is because her and most of her Cabinet didn’t want to leave, if Boris hadn’t been shit on by Gove he would have got the job at the beginning and it would have been done and dusted now, we would now be in the sunny uplands😉

[birch-chorley]

12 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

Article 50 takes 2years to complete, so nobody said we could get a deal ‘ within months”

Boris has only been in the job 2 months but he is in the process of getting a deal, why it took TM over 3years is because her and most of her Cabinet didn’t want to leave, if Boris hadn’t been shit on by Gove he would have got the job at the beginning and it would have been done and dusted now, we would now be in the sunny uplands😉

They did

Nobody had a clue what article 50 even was until after the vote, well 99% of folk didn’t 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

Article 50 takes 2years to complete, so nobody said we could get a deal ‘ within months”

Boris has only been in the job 2 months but he is in the process of getting a deal, why it took TM over 3years is because her and most of her Cabinet didn’t want to leave, if Boris hadn’t been shit on by Gove he would have got the job at the beginning and it would have been done and dusted now, we would now be in the sunny uplands😉

Lets look at some of the quotes then...

 

Quote

 

 Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards

John Redwood

July 17 2016

 

The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want

Michael Gove

9 April 2016

 

There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside

David Davis

10 October 2016

 

 The idea that we’ll do a transitional arrangement where you’re still in, paying money, still with free movement of people – that we’ll do the long-term deal in slow motion … That is plainly not what we’re after

David Davis

15 March 2016

 

I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019

David Davis

18 January 2017

 

“There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it… Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave… The idea that our trade will suffer because we stop imposing terrible rules such as the Clinical Trial Directive is silly.

Vote Leave Campaign

 

“It will be possible to negotiate a new settlement with the EU, including a UK-EU free trade deal, by the next general election in May 2020"

Vote Leave Campaign

 

“There will be no change to the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.” 
Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel

These are the things said. I've taken out the really bonkers stuff some of the less political Brexit campaigners said about "leaving within a week of the vote and not using A50". 

But they were talking about a free trade deal by May 2020. We're in October 2019 and haven't started on a free trade deal yet - and the usual length for free trade agreements is in excess of 3 years. 

It clearly isn't the "simplest deal in history". We never "held all the cards". The Irish border is being changed. We won't have access to the single market. We are negotiating a transition arrangement. And does anyone believe the "no downside" comment now?

 

 

[Moon boy]

4 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Lets look at some of the quotes then...

 

These are the things said. I've taken out the really bonkers stuff some of the less political Brexit campaigners said about "leaving within a week of the vote and not using A50". 

But they were talking about a free trade deal by May 2020. We're in October 2019 and haven't started on a free trade deal yet - and the usual length for free trade agreements is in excess of 3 years. 

It clearly isn't the "simplest deal in history". We never "held all the cards". The Irish border is being changed. We won't have access to the single market. We are negotiating a transition arrangement. And does anyone believe the "no downside" comment now?

 

 

I appreciate you’ve gone to considerable length to prove your point but none of those quotes are lies, they are just opinions

As of today 15 October, nothing has been agreed between the EU and the U.K., leaving aside all the shouting and screaming we were asked by the Government to make a choice between remaining  a member of the EU or leaving the EU, the Government promised to carry out the result of the Referendum, the result was conclusive, the majority of people who took the trouble to vote decided that leaving was a better option. The Government need to carry out the result in the best way they can to try and carry as many people as possible with them.

A Government with a positive, forward looking attitude who are prepared to take full advantage of the opportunities that will arise from having left the stagnating EU will triumph 

People who wanted to stay in the EU cannot predict whether our situation would get better or worse over the next few years just the same as Leavers cannot predict the future, raking up who said what over the last 3 years is pointless, we are where we are now the only way is forwards and the sooner we get it sorted the better for everyone 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Lets look at some of the quotes then...

 

These are the things said. I've taken out the really bonkers stuff some of the less political Brexit campaigners said about "leaving within a week of the vote and not using A50". 

But they were talking about a free trade deal by May 2020. We're in October 2019 and haven't started on a free trade deal yet - and the usual length for free trade agreements is in excess of 3 years. 

It clearly isn't the "simplest deal in history". We never "held all the cards". The Irish border is being changed. We won't have access to the single market. We are negotiating a transition arrangement. And does anyone believe the "no downside" comment now?

 

 

What are the downsides?

[Salford Trotter]

36 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

I appreciate you’ve gone to considerable length to prove your point but none of those quotes are lies, they are just opinions

As of today 15 October, nothing has been agreed between the EU and the U.K., leaving aside all the shouting and screaming we were asked by the Government to make a choice between remaining  a member of the EU or leaving the EU, the Government promised to carry out the result of the Referendum, the result was conclusive, the majority of people who took the trouble to vote decided that leaving was a better option. The Government need to carry out the result in the best way they can to try and carry as many people as possible with them.

A Government with a positive, forward looking attitude who are prepared to take full advantage of the opportunities that will arise from having left the stagnating EU will triumph 

People who wanted to stay in the EU cannot predict whether our situation would get better or worse over the next few years just the same as Leavers cannot predict the future, raking up who said what over the last 3 years is pointless, we are where we are now the only way is forwards and the sooner we get it sorted the better for everyone 

So in the same way that you say that the remainers shared their opinion on what would happen post the Referendum? 😂

The fact is both sides lied, the difference being the Leave side's lies were more convincing and swung the vote but they were lies nonetheless. 

If we get a sensible and managed WA agreed with the EU and through Parliament then fine, let's just do it and get on with the difficult bit. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Salford Trotter

[Casino]

Anyway, bozo selling the unionist population down the river might get him the DUP vote, but I'm mot sure it gains him enough

Where is he finding the extra, is it 30 now, votes from?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Casino said:

Anyway, bozo selling the unionist population down the river might get him the DUP vote, but I'm mot sure it gains him enough

Where is he finding the extra, is it 30 now, votes from?

Labour 

[Casino]

Can't see it, myself

How many would they need

Does the clown think the Tories he sacked will back his shit deal?

Asking as I've been busy this week

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Casino said:

Anyway, bozo selling the unionist population down the river might get him the DUP vote, but I'm mot sure it gains him enough

Where is he finding the extra, is it 30 now, votes from?

I think it will get through Parliament as everyone will believe that if they vote it down it’s no deal. 20 odd Labour votes. ERG and DUP will back this having previously described such a deal as completely unacceptable. Mainly because they fear that if they don’t Brexit might not happen. Boris is using the double threat of no deal and no Brexit.

Frankly it’s a huge risk not to vote for a deal because nobody on any side could predict what would happen.

[Duck Egg]

I'm still certain that a deal would have been a lot easier and our hand a lot stronger, if we'd all accepted the result of the referendum and thrown our total support behind the negotiating team.

As it is, it seems likely we're never going to get agreement through parliament.  I'd suggest we give up and retain the status quo (i.e. stay in) until we can get a clear 65% + mandate to go one way or t'other.

[Salford Trotter]

7 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

I'm still certain that a deal would have been a lot easier and our hand a lot stronger, if we'd all accepted the result of the referendum and thrown our total support behind the negotiating team.

As it is, it seems likely we're never going to get agreement through parliament.  I'd suggest we give up and retain the status quo (i.e. stay in) until we can get a clear 65% + mandate to go one way or t'other.

Just like Farage said it should have been a requirement to have a super majority in the first place  

[Cheese]

15 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

I'm still certain that a deal would have been a lot easier and our hand a lot stronger, if we'd all accepted the result of the referendum and thrown our total support behind the negotiating team.

As it is, it seems likely we're never going to get agreement through parliament.  I'd suggest we give up and retain the status quo (i.e. stay in) until we can get a clear 65% + mandate to go one way or t'other.

That's a result of the Leave argument being so vague and full of false promises. The most ardent Brexiters have had to resort to saying 'No Deal' was the plan all along, even though that's the opposite of what they said during the referendum campaign. In an ideal world, they'd go away and come back when they have a proper plan.

[Spider]

Someone needs to tell my former Irish customers how this “sea border” works and why it’s a really good idea.

Because I’ve just had a text off one of them saying it’s the biggest load of old bollocks he’s ever heard of. So I don’t see the orders flooding back anytime soon.

sunny fucking uplands my rectum.

[Casino]

Tough shit

[Duck Egg]

47 minutes ago, Cheese said:

That's a result of the Leave argument being so vague and full of false promises. The most ardent Brexiters have had to resort to saying 'No Deal' was the plan all along, even though that's the opposite of what they said during the referendum campaign. In an ideal world, they'd go away and come back when they have a proper plan.

I agree. I just don't get the constant carping of "you said it'd be easy to get a deal and it wasn't". However vague the pre referendum promises were, a deal WOULD have been easier if we'd accepted the result as many politicians said they would and presented a united front. 

 

[Cheese]

17 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

I agree. I just don't get the constant carping of "you said it'd be easy to get a deal and it wasn't". However vague the pre referendum promises were, a deal WOULD have been easier if we'd accepted the result as many politicians said they would and presented a united front. 

A 52/48 split in any vote is never going to result in a united front. We're talking about people, not robots. 

If it had gone the other way and ardent Remainers treated it like a massive majority and claimed it meant the country wanted to join the Euro and Schengen etc because that was 'the will of the people', there would quite rightly have been uproar from Leave voters.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Cheese

[kent_white]

Let's just get the bastard thing done now and get on with things! Latest rumblings sound positive at least.

[leigh white]

8 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Let's just get the bastard thing done now and get on with things! Latest rumblings sound positive at least.

Don't bet on it ,

[bolty58]

Wouldn't bet on anything with some of the dupilicitous cunts in Parliament.

Just hoping that the collective opinion will be fuck it, everyone has had enough iof this bollocks so lets agree and get the fuck on with life.

Suspect those in the pay of the likes of Gina Miller will oppose it in the hope of hanging on to membership to the bitter end hoping for some sort of miraculous reversal.

[Spider]

Mounts, can you answer this?

Someone needs to tell my former Irish customers how this “sea border” works and why it’s a really good idea.

Because I’ve just had a text off one of them saying it’s the biggest load of old bollocks he’s ever heard of. So I don’t see the orders flooding back anytime soon.

[Salford Trotter]

11 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I think it will get through Parliament as everyone will believe that if they vote it down it’s no deal. 20 odd Labour votes. ERG and DUP will back this having previously described such a deal as completely unacceptable. Mainly because they fear that if they don’t Brexit might not happen. Boris is using the double threat of no deal and no Brexit.

Frankly it’s a huge risk not to vote for a deal because nobody on any side could predict what would happen.

I thought May's deal was worse than staying in? Oh well, I must have heard it wrong

[Mounts Kipper]

31 minutes ago, Spider said:

Mounts, can you answer this?

Someone needs to tell my former Irish customers how this “sea border” works and why it’s a really good idea.

Because I’ve just had a text off one of them saying it’s the biggest load of old bollocks he’s ever heard of. So I don’t see the orders flooding back anytime soon.

We don’t even know what the border arrangements are yet so not sure what the answer is.  If there is a resolve to the border issue and your former customer still won’t buy, then what is he going to pin the blame on then. I’ll have a guess it’ll be the stronger pound. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Spider]

7 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We don’t even know what the border arrangements are yet so not sure what the answer is.  If there is a resolve to the border issue and your former customer still won’t buy, then what is he going to pin the blame on then. I’ll have a guess it’ll be the stronger pound. 

Thanks for clarifying how this new nirvana will operate for those of us whose plans involve anything other than retiring to Spain. Very helpful.

[bolty58]

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

We don’t even know what the border arrangements are yet so not sure what the answer is.  If there is a resolve to the border issue and your former customer still won’t buy, then what is he going to pin the blame on then. 

Spider was being serious!!!??? I thought he was engaging in some sort of gingerese wordsmithery mentioning sea and flooding etc.

A wave of smiles washed over me.