Politics

[Casino]

Just now, Ani said:

No. You are making no sense whatsoever. 
 

Have you started on the eggnog early?

The earlier discussion the thread was ‘is the UK/EU deal the quickest easiest ever’. That was prompted by Esco. 
I said given other deals have already been completed probably not. Mounts then said they were continuity deals. Esco rightly pointed out that we actually do not know when negotiations on any deals started. 
You then joined in lauding the UK/Jap deal as an example of how quickly we can do deals on our own. I asked when you thought that negotiation started you said after we left the EU. So given it started after we left the EU and concluded before today’s deal was that deal in fact quicker and easier than the UK/EU deal and you confirmed it was. 
 

All you have done is to confirm that you think that the EU/UK was not in fact the easiest deal ever done. Which is the same view as I expressed at the start of this. 
 

No lies from me and not sure why you are saying that. 

Are you thiiiiiiiis bored?

[Duck Egg]

We don't know the detail but I'm sure even Boris wouldn't negotiate a worse deal than he'd previously agreed on! 

Fair play to the old bumbling bluffer for digging his heels in when folk were screaming at him to just accept any deal.  Not easy to admit but I think he's done well here. 

Happy Christmas all 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Duck Egg

[miamiwhite]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

No. You are making no sense whatsoever. 
 

Have you started on the eggnog early?

The earlier discussion the thread was ‘is the UK/EU deal the quickest easiest ever’. That was prompted by Esco. 
I said given other deals have already been completed probably not. Mounts then said they were continuity deals. Esco rightly pointed out that we actually do not know when negotiations on any deals started. 
You then joined in lauding the UK/Jap deal as an example of how quickly we can do deals on our own. I asked when you thought that negotiation started you said after we left the EU. So given it started after we left the EU and concluded before today’s deal was that deal in fact quicker and easier than the UK/EU deal and you confirmed it was. 
 

All you have done is to confirm that you think that the EU/UK was not in fact the easiest deal ever done. Which is the same view as I expressed at the start of this. 
 

No lies from me and not sure why you are saying that. 

listen lad, it is getting fucking tedious now. You put your drink down please, and look what I said originally re the Jap deal......yes,  originally........if you cannot differentiate between originally and earlier, you shouldn't be near a keyboard.

Now, you and I are boring people, easier for you to phone me and I will explain in nar nar language to you x

[miamiwhite]

3 minutes ago, Casino said:

Are you thiiiiiiiis bored?

He's on the piss 

[Ani]

4 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

listen lad, it is getting fucking tedious now. You put your drink down please, and look what I said originally re the Jap deal......yes,  originally........if you cannot differentiate between originally and earlier, you shouldn't be near a keyboard.

Now, you and I are boring people, easier for you to phone me and I will explain in nar nar language to you x

And you call me patronising ? 
 

let’s face facts you were lauding the Jap deal. Saying what a great example of what the UK can do on its own. What you missed is that claiming it was done quicker than the uk/Eu deal you were contradicting the claim that uk/Eu was the easiest ever. 

 

[Ani]

12 minutes ago, Casino said:

Are you thiiiiiiiis bored?

Either this or help wrap presents. 

[miamiwhite]

6 minutes ago, Ani said:

And you call me patronising ? 
 

let’s face facts you were lauding the Jap deal. Saying what a great example of what the UK can do on its own. What you missed is that claiming it was done quicker than the uk/Eu deal you were contradicting the claim that uk/Eu was the easiest ever. 

 

Hang on spunk, I never claimed the  quickest was  the uk/EU did I ? Why invent lies again ? Are you a Parody Ani ?

Please, get your facts right. Sent you a PM if you're struggling love x 

Edited December 24, 2020 by miamiwhite

[miamiwhite]

3 minutes ago, Ani said:

Either this or help wrap presents. 

You'd get tied in knots either way 😄 

[kent_white]

Right - we can all stop fucking moaning now.

Let's reopen the thread in 5 years and judge who was right! 😁

[Ani]

26 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Hang on spunk, I never claimed the  quickest was  the uk/EU did I ? Why invent lies again ? Are you a Parody Ani ?

Please, get your facts right. Sent you a PM if you're struggling love x 

I never said you did. 
The point was raised in this thread by Escobarp. 
You used the Jap as an example of a quicker one. 
You claimed victory over lefties 

I pointed out Escobarp is not a leftie. 
 

Again you are failing to show any lies but keep chucking accusations about. I keep trotting out facts. 
 

Happy to call it a no score draw if you are 😅😅

Edited December 24, 2020 by Ani

[MancWanderer]

19 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Right - we can all stop fucking moaning now.

Let's reopen the thread in 5 years and judge who was right! 😁

Best post of the whole thread 😀

[miamiwhite]

13 minutes ago, Ani said:

I never said you did. 
The point was raised in this thread by Escobarp. 
You used the Jap as an example of a quicker one. 
You claimed victory over lefties 

I pointed out Escobarp is not a leftie. 
 

Again you are failing to show any lies but keep chucking accusations about. I keep trotting out facts. 

Esco is a Visionary like a select few on here, myself obviously included in such esteemed gents.

We are not left or right....just realists....but always right so to speak

Merry Christmas and a very Happy New outlook in politics x

[miamiwhite]

23 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Right - we can all stop fucking moaning now.

Let's reopen the thread in 5 years and judge who was right! 😁

only because your lot got beat 🐟 🐠 🎏 

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

45 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Right - we can all stop fucking moaning now.

Let's reopen the thread in 5 years and judge who was right! 😁

Not a bad idea, though the perennial pessimist Preston has already started.

Wait a few hours and days for the complaints that this bit is shit and that bit will adversely affect us.

Time for government to help businesses with preparations and paperwork, and for the nation to kick on as best we can given the pandemic. 

Mery Christmas!

[paulhanley]

Janet Daly, The Telegraph. 

In the end it didn’t happen at five minutes to midnight. It was two minutes to midnight. Everybody wanted a form of words he could present to the home audience as a win – or, in the case of the EU, if not a victory, at least a palatable outcome.

Apparently they spent the last 12 hours counting herring. Macron had to fend off the threat of rioting fishermen and Marine Le Pen, and Boris had to hang on to Grimsby. We will find out eventually how finely they had to slice the grape for their own audiences, but they can probably count on the fact that Covid and its attendant catastrophic consequences have blunted the more purist forms of critique. To have walked over the cliff of no deal now would have seemed like absolute insanity. Most of the populations of the key European states are so punch drunk from the pandemic that they are – almost – beyond caring about the detail.

But the press conferences told the real story of who had won most. Ursula von der Leyen and Michel Barnier looked as if they were delivering memorial speeches at a funeral. Mrs Von der Leyen, who may well have been the quiet heroine of this story, displayed faultless diplomacy in her dignified grief. But the most revealing point in her solemn disquisition was her clear failure, still, to understand what the word “sovereignty” meant. It should be understood, she said, in the twenty-first century to be something more like the EU ideal: solidarity and harmony between partners. But that, of course, is not what it means. As Boris Johnson – who was clearly, and justifiably, not sad at all – made clear, what sovereignty actually means is that our laws will be determined by our own elected parliament and interpreted by our own judges. And it is that understanding – that profound difference of basic principle – which underlies our incompatibility with the European ideology.

Trying – but not always succeeding – to resist triumphalism, Boris had the clearest, strongest argument possible: we are now, indisputably, part of a giant free trade zone with Europe but also able to make free trade agreements with other countries. We are in the most advantageous global position that we might have hoped for. He too was diplomatic in his explanation of why our membership of the EU had foundered. It was a fundamental historical difference in our political cultures: nations like Germany, France and Italy were determined that their peoples should never go to war with one another again – and the Benelux countries which had been trampled in the process were eager to go along.

But the UK – he did not quite say – does not share in that guilty remorse, and is proud of the independent and courageous role it played in the events of the last century. The consolidation and diminishing of national power which seemed the morally right path for so many European states was not appropriate or comfortable for us. So we have, at last, found our rightful place in a trading relationship and friendly partnership with the EU that does not involve a diminution of the democratic accountability of our elected government.

There will be much forensic examination of the details of this new charter for restoring independence, by people who have spent half their lives dedicated to the cause. But I do hope that not too many of my Brexiteer friends will decide to go down in the last ditch over fishing quotas or semantic interpretations. They are, I know, deeply conscientious and much too honourable to lose. And this is as good a deal as we could have dreamed.

 

[Ani]

1 minute ago, paulhanley said:

Janet Daly, The Telegraph. 

In the end it didn’t happen at five minutes to midnight. It was two minutes to midnight. Everybody wanted a form of words he could present to the home audience as a win – or, in the case of the EU, if not a victory, at least a palatable outcome.

Apparently they spent the last 12 hours counting herring. Macron had to fend off the threat of rioting fishermen and Marine Le Pen, and Boris had to hang on to Grimsby. We will find out eventually how finely they had to slice the grape for their own audiences, but they can probably count on the fact that Covid and its attendant catastrophic consequences have blunted the more purist forms of critique. To have walked over the cliff of no deal now would have seemed like absolute insanity. Most of the populations of the key European states are so punch drunk from the pandemic that they are – almost – beyond caring about the detail.

But the press conferences told the real story of who had won most. Ursula von der Leyen and Michel Barnier looked as if they were delivering memorial speeches at a funeral. Mrs Von der Leyen, who may well have been the quiet heroine of this story, displayed faultless diplomacy in her dignified grief. But the most revealing point in her solemn disquisition was her clear failure, still, to understand what the word “sovereignty” meant. It should be understood, she said, in the twenty-first century to be something more like the EU ideal: solidarity and harmony between partners. But that, of course, is not what it means. As Boris Johnson – who was clearly, and justifiably, not sad at all – made clear, what sovereignty actually means is that our laws will be determined by our own elected parliament and interpreted by our own judges. And it is that understanding – that profound difference of basic principle – which underlies our incompatibility with the European ideology.

Trying – but not always succeeding – to resist triumphalism, Boris had the clearest, strongest argument possible: we are now, indisputably, part of a giant free trade zone with Europe but also able to make free trade agreements with other countries. We are in the most advantageous global position that we might have hoped for. He too was diplomatic in his explanation of why our membership of the EU had foundered. It was a fundamental historical difference in our political cultures: nations like Germany, France and Italy were determined that their peoples should never go to war with one another again – and the Benelux countries which had been trampled in the process were eager to go along.

But the UK – he did not quite say – does not share in that guilty remorse, and is proud of the independent and courageous role it played in the events of the last century. The consolidation and diminishing of national power which seemed the morally right path for so many European states was not appropriate or comfortable for us. So we have, at last, found our rightful place in a trading relationship and friendly partnership with the EU that does not involve a diminution of the democratic accountability of our elected government.

There will be much forensic examination of the details of this new charter for restoring independence, by people who have spent half their lives dedicated to the cause. But I do hope that not too many of my Brexiteer friends will decide to go down in the last ditch over fishing quotas or semantic interpretations. They are, I know, deeply conscientious and much too honourable to lose. And this is as good a deal as we could have dreamed.

 

Apparently she spoke in 3 languages and quoted Shakespeare. 
Boris. ‘That’s is from Brussels, time for the sprouts.’

 

😅😀😂

[paulhanley]

Allison Pearson, The Telegraph

Brexit means Brexit.” Goodness, how innocent we were all those centuries ago when Theresa May and her chief EU negotiator, Olly Robbins, were still asking the Brussels mafia what price they would accept for allowing us to leave the European Union. And Donald Tusk posted a picture on Instagram of Mrs May admiring some cakes with the caption, “A piece of cake, perhaps? Sorry, no cherries.”

The then-president of the European Council treated the then British prime minister not just disrespectfully but with jaw-dropping insolence for what he saw as her attempt to “cherry-pick” access to the Single Market. To be fair to Tusk, he perfectly captured the tone of the negotiations for a trade deal between the EU and its second highest-contributing member: arrogant, vengeful, obstructive, sneaky, spiteful and downright bloody rude.

Like a sociopathic jilted fiance, the EU wasn’t content to just get the ring back. It wanted to humiliate the UK, shave our head and send us to a nunnery so we would never enjoy relations with anyone else ever again.       

It took an exhausting, nerve-shredding, Remainer-dodging 1,317 days from the referendum result on June 23 2016 to get out. And another 327 days until a trade deal was finally agreed. This time, there is none of that air-punching WE DID IT! sense which millions of us felt on January 31 when Union Jacks fluttered in the Mall and I heard a Geordie girl crying with happiness on the radio because we were finally leaving.   

Instead, there will be quiet satisfaction that our negotiating team, led by the terriertastic David Frost, hung in there and held its nerve as Michel Barnier announced, yet again, that “the cliff edge” was near and the “clock is ticking”. All well-worn, coded EU threats designed to panic the hated Brits into taking whatever crumbs off the table the other 27 deigned to give us.

Kudos also to the PM. It feels like another lifetime when Buoyant Boris was balm to our souls, delivering a stonking general election victory on a promise to Get Brexit Done. Covid seemed to make him half the man, and not just because he lost weight. As Tennyson said of Ulysses, “We are not now that strength which in old days/ Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are/Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will.”

There was a calculated bravura in the PM’s claim that a no-deal Brexit was “now a strong probability”. His bold assertion that it would be a “good outcome” if we left without a deal came before President Macron, his petulant inner Napoleon never far from the surface, closed the French border and lorries queued up the M20 into the corona badlands of the Medway towns. Put it this way, Robert Robinson would have made Boris team captain on Call My Bluff.

Each side will claim the other blinked first. At first glance, though, it looks like we did a lot better than was predicted. Zero tariffs and zero quotas mean a better deal than any other country. Yes, the EU can impose tariffs if we make a molehill in their level playing field, but at least there is no role at all for the European Court of Justice which over-ruled the laws voted for by the British people.

In the next few days, purists will pore over the small print, wrinkle their noses and declare this is BRINO – Brexit In Name Only. Most of us will just heave a huge sigh of relief and rejoice that we don’t have an aggrieved EU holding up vaccines and satsumas to add to our Covid worries.

Look at it this way, we will never again need to hear the six glummest words in the English language: “Over to Katya Adler in Brussels.”

The United Kingdom just became the first country to honour the result of a referendum which defied the wishes of the European autocracy. It walked away with its own borders, its own laws and (eventually) the best part of our own seas. There is great pride to be taken in that. The EU revealed its true colours in the negotiations. We made the right decision. We’re on our own now. Some noble work may yet be done. Over the last four and a half long, bruising years of bartering for our freedom we’ve shown that we have the character to do it. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. Brexit meant Brexit. But we knew that, didn’t we? 

Edited December 24, 2020 by paulhanley

[Mounts Kipper]

7 minutes ago, Ani said:

Apparently she spoke in 3 languages and quoted Shakespeare. 
Boris. ‘That’s is from Brussels, time for the sprouts.’

 

😅😀😂

Boris only needs to speak to the British. No doubt he could also speak Latin if any fucker can understand it. 

[Escobarp]

13 minutes ago, Ani said:

Apparently she spoke in 3 languages and quoted Shakespeare. 
Boris. ‘That’s is from Brussels, time for the sprouts.’

 

😅😀😂

You know who the “sprouts” were he was referring to I assume ?

[Ani]

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Boris only needs to speak to the British. No doubt he could also speak Latin if any fucker can understand it. 

I found his comment funny. Was not meaning it as a dig. 

[Escobarp]

Just now, Ani said:

I found his comment funny. Was not meaning it as a dig. 

No I didn’t think you had tbh. I just wondered if you knew as I had missed that part of his speech. Heard it on the radio m

Was the journalists 

[Ani]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

No I didn’t think you had tbh. I just wondered if you knew as I had missed that part of his speech. Heard it on the radio m

Was the journalists 

Just assume Brussels sprouts as it is Xmas Eve. 

[paulhanley]

17 minutes ago, Mr Grey said:

Nicely put from Janet. 

Unfortunately the Greives, Femi-doms and Terry Christian's of this world just cannot let go, maybe it's time they moved to Belguim, Luxembourg or Bulgaria, if living in the UK is so bad and unbearable.

Let's hope the Media fuck all this off and move on, stop interviewing the likes of Adonis, Sourface and Blair and also stop giving air time to the smug brexiteers like Brigden and Farage, let's heal the divisions, it's now done, or it will be when the Moggster comes out of his ERG meeting with those little thin Victorian thumbs up 👍🏻👍🏻

Aye.

Or to put it in the language of a few years ago, up your Delors.

Couldn't resist.

[Boby Brno]

17 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Aye.

Or to put it in the language of a few years ago, up your Delors.

Couldn't resist.

The Sun headline. Just a few days before I gave a procurement presentation to the French. Awkward.

[Guest]

I hope it doesn’t become

Brexiteers saying it’s a great deal, remainers saying otherwise

Adonis is already all over it