Politics

[Spider]

You’re forgetting that both sides had to make the deal even though one side then backtracked on it.

We’re as good as Boris’s word.

[Casino]

Yeah, folk need to remember the slob promised NI he wouldn't sell them out

They needn't worry so they don't

 

[Dimron]

Fat Boy seems to have a problem with NI... Northern Ireland and National Insurance.

[Spider]

Good to see Boris has been to the barbers and is saving the pennies by having the traditional Knife and Fork haircut.

[mickbrown]

Fuck manifestos

[Spider]

Fuck the triple lock

CON (+17)

[Spider]

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 hours ago, mickbrown said:

Fuck manifestos

 

4 hours ago, Spider said:

Fuck the triple lock

CON (+17)

As he said, whose manifesto had a pandemic in it.

Posture all you want; finally after decades someone has put their head above the parapet and is doing something about the funding issue. Won't be universally popular, but cake can't be kept and ate. How you raise the money will always be the subject of debate.

Like it or not, folk living longer costs money, and that has to be paid for.

Proof will be in the pudding now: pay decent wages, invest in training and make sure they money goes where its needed.

[Spider]

13 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

 

As he said, whose manifesto had a pandemic in it.

Posture all you want; finally after decades someone has put their head above the parapet and is doing something about the funding issue. Won't be universally popular, but cake can't be kept and ate. How you raise the money will always be the subject of debate.

Like it or not, folk living longer costs money, and that has to be paid for.

Proof will be in the pudding now: pay decent wages, invest in training and make sure they money goes where its needed.

They've served several puddings already.

Look no further than their Vision for the Future of Heating - the Greener Homes Grant.

Absolute shambles. They think just saying "We hereby pledge <insert unlikely amount of money here>" is all they need to do.

Kwasi Kwarteng looks fed up to fuck already in his job, and that's a shame as he's a decent Tory but the bollocks he's made to sort out is beyond anyone.

How long do they need to "prove" themselves as competent?

Previous Tory governments have made unpopular decisions but they have at least followed through on them.

This lot are just a headline for the main part.

[mickbrown]

Long story short, he's a lying fucker.

And the voting public lap it up.

Fuck em. They get what they deserve.

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by mickbrown

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, Spider said:

They've served several puddings already.

Look no further than their Vision for the Future of Heating - the Greener Homes Grant.

Absolute shambles. They think just saying "We hereby pledge <insert unlikely amount of money here>" is all they need to do.

Kwasi Kwarteng looks fed up to fuck already in his job, and that's a shame as he's a decent Tory but the bollocks he's made to sort out is beyond anyone.

How long do they need to "prove" themselves as competent?

Previous Tory governments have made unpopular decisions but they have at least followed through on them.

This lot are just a headline for the main part.

This is a headline is it?

So far, despite the pandemic, this has been the first government I've seen to do what has been needed on the nhs/social care. It has to be funded one way or another.

As for the environment, huge changes are afoot, but as usual, folk moan because they're nimbies, dinosaurs, or just because they like to moan. Still loads to do, but people are generally loathe to change, especially quick change so a balancing act is needed.

For once, I'm relatively pleased that a government is starting to recognise the issues with regard to climate, and finally putting money into better land use for example. 

I agree over the greener homes business- I looked into it and it's extremely complex, I've heard interviews with folk who apply and get rejected even if they meet the criteria. Seems a poorly implemented scheme. Unfortunately this isn't uncommon within the huge set up that is government/parliament/civil service and things need to be improved. 

That said, if you don't stick your head up and try such things, then there's less for folk to shoot at. But folk will moan that nothing changes.

Such is life for any government. 

I'm intrigued to know what those who object to today's tax rise think should be done.

[leigh white]

Johnson said no lockdown this coming October, so prepare for lockdown this coming October.

[Spider]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

This is a headline is it?

So far, despite the pandemic, this has been the first government I've seen to do what has been needed on the nhs/social care. It has to be funded one way or another.

As for the environment, huge changes are afoot, but as usual, folk moan because they're nimbies, dinosaurs, or just because they like to moan. Still loads to do, but people are generally loathe to change, especially quick change so a balancing act is needed.

For once, I'm relatively pleased that a government is starting to recognise the issues with regard to climate, and finally putting money into better land use for example. 

I agree over the greener homes business- I looked into it and it's extremely complex, I've heard interviews with folk who apply and get rejected even if they meet the criteria. Seems a poorly implemented scheme. Unfortunately this isn't uncommon within the huge set up that is government/parliament/civil service and things need to be improved. 

That said, if you don't stick your head up and try such things, then there's less for folk to shoot at. But folk will moan that nothing changes.

Such is life for any government. 

I'm intrigued to know what those who object to today's tax rise think should be done.

I don't actually object to a tax rise. I just think this lot have wasted so much money already (not Covid) that it's hard to trust them to spend it well.

They still need to get more out of the top few thousand - but they're shit scared, as every government has been forever.

[mickbrown]

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

I don't actually object to a tax rise. I just think this lot have wasted so much money already (not Covid) that it's hard to trust them to spend it well.

They still need to get more out of the top few thousand - but they're shit scared, as every government has been forever.

Chancellor being one of the top few thousand might have a bit to do with that.

[Spider]

1 minute ago, mickbrown said:

Chancellor being one of the top few thousand might have a bit to do with that.

Quite

[mickbrown]

3 minutes ago, Spider said:

Quite

And being funded by a few more might also be an issue.

[Farrelli]

15 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Long story short, he's a lying fucker.

 

 

Don’t forget self serving and incompetent.  I’ve no problem with paying a bit more NI to help fund the NHS and care sector but how can you trust this lot with all the cronyism, wasted money, blatant lies and lack of morality shown in office so far? 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 minutes ago, Spider said:

I don't actually object to a tax rise. I just think this lot have wasted so much money already (not Covid) that it's hard to trust them to spend it well.

They still need to get more out of the top few thousand - but they're shit scared, as every government has been forever.

Everyone needs nhs/care from time to time, so everyone should contribute. The more you earn, the more tax you pay. 

A cap introduced to stop folk paying more than £86k for their care, so any money beyond that won't be lost to the system and can be past on etc. A threshold too where low earners won't be subject to increase.

Don't get the idea that better of folk should pay yet more- they will be already by this rise. Overtax and they may choose to do one, which as you say every government has to be aware of.

[kent_white]

I don't know how much a penny in the pound on NI raises. But I'd be surprised if it's enough to fix the social care system. It's been underfunded year on year for decades. I think we should look at other forms of taxation too though. Listening to LBC this afternoon and they mentioned raising VAT and an 'estates tax' which I thought was a decent idea. Basically on death - 10% of your estate goes to the state in taxation, the rest goes wherever you choose it goes. In return - you don't have to pay for the cost of your care while you're alive by flogging your house. 

I don't think we can really blame Boris for going back on a manifesto promise. COVID means that's pretty much a worthless document now. 

[mickbrown]

28 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I don't know how much a penny in the pound on NI raises. But I'd be surprised if it's enough to fix the social care system. It's been underfunded year on year for decades. I think we should look at other forms of taxation too though. Listening to LBC this afternoon and they mentioned raising VAT and an 'estates tax' which I thought was a decent idea. Basically on death - 10% of your estate goes to the state in taxation, the rest goes wherever you choose it goes. In return - you don't have to pay for the cost of your care while you're alive by flogging your house. 

I don't think we can really blame Boris for going back on a manifesto promise. COVID means that's pretty much a worthless document now. 

He's have gone back on it anyway. They have form for breaking manifesto pledges.

[stevieb]

1 hour ago, leigh white said:

Johnson said no lockdown this coming October, so prepare for lockdown this coming October.

In one. 

[paulhanley]

59 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I don't know how much a penny in the pound on NI raises. But I'd be surprised if it's enough to fix the social care system. It's been underfunded year on year for decades. I think we should look at other forms of taxation too though. Listening to LBC this afternoon and they mentioned raising VAT and an 'estates tax' which I thought was a decent idea. Basically on death - 10% of your estate goes to the state in taxation, the rest goes wherever you choose it goes. In return - you don't have to pay for the cost of your care while you're alive by flogging your house. 

I don't think we can really blame Boris for going back on a manifesto promise. COVID means that's pretty much a worthless document now. 

The problem we're going to have here is that history shows raising taxes is far from guaranteed to increase Government income. If you take money out of people's pockets they spend less - and that inevitably means the economy doesn't grow as much or in the worst case scenario doesn't grow at all. Once that happens Government income shrinks irrespective of rises in direct taxation. It's a downward spiral.

This is well known in economic theory (The Laffer Curve) https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/laffercurve.asp .. there's a sweet spot for the right rate to pitch tax that maximises income to central coffers.

This is no theory - it has been proven in practice over the world and the 1970s in the UK was a good example of what happens when you go mad with direct taxation. 

This also goes to the root of why socialism never, ever works. 

So I'm afraid Boris is getting this horribly wrong. We all know the social care funding problem needs tackling - but this cannot be the way unless he has plans to relieve the tax burden in other areas in due course. It's bad economics.

[Spider]

I notice Boris isn’t the messiah anymore now he’s started to do some pickpocketing.

In Miami’s absence, may I be the first to congratulate the visionaries on here.

[paulhanley]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

I notice Boris isn’t the messiah anymore now he’s started to do some pickpocketing.

In Miami’s absence, may I be the first to congratulate the visionaries on here.

I think you'd find if there was an election tomorrow the woke Mr Starmer and whoever leads the illiberal undemocrats these days would not stop another Conservative win. Scrutinising the Government of the day is healthy in a democracy - doesn't mean you're going to opt to vote for the busted flushes who offer themselves as alternatives.

[Escobarp]

Just now, Spider said:

I notice Boris isn’t the messiah anymore now he’s started to do some pickpocketing.

In Miami’s absence, may I be the first to congratulate the visionaries on here.

And the folk who’ve bled the country dry over the last 18 months. For balance of course. 
 

hope you enjoyed the holiday 

 

fwiw I don’t mind paying more tax but agree with Paul’s comments to some degree.  Look at Scotland for an example. I pay 1% more tax here and the tax take has somehow dropped. 
 

but something needs to be done about the social care system and I think it’s going to be an issue in 20/50 years time too. Difficult to resolve and not sure this is the solution but time will tell.