Politics

[BobyBrno]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance-medical-bankruptcy-debt

There are other countries. There are many in Europe. 

[Cheese]

14 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

There are other countries. There are many in Europe. 

Which ones?

[Traf]

2 hours ago, Sweep said:

I bet a large percentage of the staff waiting to treat them are though

Yeah, but that's OK. Foreigners can help run the NHS, just not use it.

[Zico]

This is a pretty graph 

 

 

[Cheese]

[Farrelli]

13 minutes ago, Zico said:

This is a pretty graph 

 

 

It is like the start of Dads Army.

[Farrelli]

11 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Now that is a telling graph. Game over💀

[Zico]

13 minutes ago, Cheese said:

@Boby Brno must be using a different Google to you

[BobyBrno]

2 minutes ago, Zico said:

@Boby Brno must be using a different Google to you

If you read my reply to casino, the graph above proves my point. 🤷‍♂️

[Casino]

5 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

If you read my reply to casino, the graph above proves my point. 🤷‍♂️

did you not say 7/8 was the record pre covid?

im not even sure  its about numbers alone

waiting times are scandalous

[Zico]

35 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

If you read my reply to casino, the graph above proves my point. 🤷‍♂️

This reply? 

"2007-8 highest pre COVID" in reference to waiting lists? 

Not sure it does  

Quite the opposite in fact 

[kent_white]

2 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

It works in other countries. Why not here? 

It definitely COULD work. But most of these other countries will have built a private system from the ground up. We chose to go down a different in this country so dismantling it would costs an absolute fortune. 

I'd imagine that the costs in redundancy payments alone would put make COVID and the furlough scheme looks like a drop in the ocean. And the reorganisation would be eye watering. There'd be a huge potential impact on patient care while everything restructured. 

Private companies would likely do what they already do in our current system - IE cherry pick all the lucrative, easy work and leave the expensive, complicated stuff well alone. 

Plus you'd still need a public system for the people that couldn't afford private healthcare. So we would need to find that through taxes and we'd essentially all be paying twice. 

These are just a couple of the hundreds of reasons why. While I like the idea that our healthcare is free at the point of care, I'm not ideologically wed to it. If I thought we could do it better, cheaper and more compassionately using a different system then I'd be open to exploring it.

But we've already got a system here. Why not just fund this one properly instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Either that - or have an honest conversation about what people want the NHS to be/not be for.

And remember when it was founded, people only generally needed limited care after they retired for about 10 years. Nowadays we're looking at perhaps 20/30 maybe even 40 years post retirement, with much more complicated comorbidities, more expensive treatments and better interventions. And all that costs a bomb unfortunately. And is extreme labour intensive. 

I can't remember which poster it was who mentioned that it's being run into the ground deliberately until people are demanding privatisation. I hate to say I agree - but that's what seems to be happening from my position, and maybe that's what a Labour government might bring. Not a magic wand, not limitless cash, but a sense that the party in charge genuinely believed in the NHS as an institution and stopped meddling in it to the point where it risks becoming dysfunctional. 

[kent_white]

Sorry for the long posts - but the most dangerous thing with conversations about the NHS is turning into a red or blue debate. I think if we're going to make any progress on the serious issues facing this country, then we have got to stop looking at things along these lines and find a consensus. Which will be hard, but I still think we can do it. 

We're a fantastic country with a proud history, intelligent and industrious people (when we believe in something). 

[BobyBrno]

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Sorry for the long posts - but the most dangerous thing with conversations about the NHS is turning into a red or blue debate. I think if we're going to make any progress on the serious issues facing this country, then we have got to stop looking at things along these lines and find a consensus. 

Correct but that’s where we are with most political discussions. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

32 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Now that is a telling graph. Game over💀

https://www.statista.com/statistics/317877/public-healthcare-expenditure-united-kingdom-yearly/

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/nhs-spending-plans-and-reality-over-the-past-10-years

It is if you're not prepared to look at the whole picture.

Question is quite simple, where is all that money going?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

15 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Sorry for the long posts - but the most dangerous thing with conversations about the NHS is turning into a red or blue debate. I think if we're going to make any progress on the serious issues facing this country, then we have got to stop looking at things along these lines and find a consensus. Which will be hard, but I still think we can do it. 

We're a fantastic country with a proud history, intelligent and industrious people (when we believe in something). 

This.

[BobyBrno]

Here is some info on waiting lists. It’s not posted to make any political point but it includes a chart that I was referring to. Happy reading👍

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-how-has-the-waiting-list-changed-over-the-years

[kent_white]

This kind of thing is worrying too. I must admit - If have probably fallen for  this at first listen if I'd heard it without any context. The audio in the article is really convincing.

So now we're entering an era where people can fake people's voices - but also an era where people can say whatever they like and then claim they were deep faked. It's amazing technology - but open to manipulation....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68146053

 

[gonzo]

Just now, kent_white said:

This kind of thing is worrying too. I must admit - If have probably fallen for  this at first listen if I'd heard it without any context. The audio in the article is really convincing.

So now we're entering an era where people can fake people's voices - but also an era where people can say whatever they like and then claim they were deep faked. It's amazing technology - but open to manipulation....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68146053

 

Its all over YouTube. Some dude copies Joe Rogan and his him staying mental stuff, same with Boxers and Frank Warren.

Obviously that's small fry, dangerous territory when they are doing it with politicians and leaders.

AI needs banning.

[kent_white]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

Its all over YouTube. Some dude copies Joe Rogan and his him staying mental stuff, same with Boxers and Frank Warren.

Obviously that's small fry, dangerous territory when they are doing it with politicians and leaders.

AI needs banning.

I think that cat is out of the bag now! 

It definitely needs regulating. Something under libel law but with stricter penalties maybe? 

Trouble is it's all anonymous 

[RoadRunnerFan]

6 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/317877/public-healthcare-expenditure-united-kingdom-yearly/

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/nhs-spending-plans-and-reality-over-the-past-10-years

It is if you're not prepared to look at the whole picture.

Question is quite simple, where is all that money going?

@kent_white answered the 'quite simple' question very well yesterday. Rising demand due to an aging population living longer with multiple comorbidities, rising expectations, impact on the service of drastic cuts to public health and social care (both of which come under local government) and the same energy & other non-pay inflation that's hitting every other area of the economy. 

Trouble is he didn't give a pithy anecdote about 'managers', 'PFI', 'procurement' or 'demand from immigrants'; so you didn't bother paying attention to it. 

[Zico]

Apparently there's a craze amongst kids playing football, to slide tackle whilst taking out the player and not the ball whilst shouting "Brexit means Brexit" 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/14/brexit-tackle-politics-children-football

[Cheese]

7 minutes ago, Zico said:

Apparently there's a craze amongst kids playing football, to slide tackle whilst taking out the player and not the ball whilst shouting "Brexit means Brexit" 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/14/brexit-tackle-politics-children-football

My lad has said it to me a couple of times while having a kickabout, so I assume all his mates say it too. He has no idea why or what it means, which is quite apt.

Edited February 14, 2024 by Cheese

[royal white]

7 minutes ago, Zico said:

Apparently there's a craze amongst kids playing football, to slide tackle whilst taking out the player and not the ball whilst shouting "Brexit means Brexit" 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/14/brexit-tackle-politics-children-football

I heard Dempsey shout it when we were playing Carlisle 😜

[Zico]

59 minutes ago, royal white said:

I heard Dempsey shout it when we were playing Carlisle 😜

This is a Brexit tackle if ever there was one