Meanwhile In England

[gonzo]

13 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Ok great. In that case I’m going to come and put your windows in because of that nurse who killed babies at Chester hospital. Is that balanced enough?

I've seen that comparison a few times and it's utterly ridiculous.

Nobody is supporting the violence. Nobody at all. 

Many could see it coming, many warned of it coming. Doesn't mean you support it.

Many warned a fractured society was always going to end up with the worst possible outcome.

The quest needs to be now to figure why that society is so fractured and what we can do to repair it.

Unfortunately the violence has ended the debated, ended any form of discussion and things will be even more polarised. 

....but if we would've had the debate, discussions and action maybe we wouldn't have got to this point.

All that's happened over the past week was entirely predictable, entirely preventable but fuck me it's set everything back 25 years.

 

Edited August 6, 2024 by gonzo

[mickbrown]

And if you don't think this is orchestrated (by who, fuck knows) I've got some magic beans to sell you

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I've seen that comparison a few times and it's utterly ridiculous.

Nobody is supporting the violence. Nobody at all. 

Many could see it coming, many warned of it coming. Doesn't mean you support it.

Many warned a fractured society was always going to end up with the worst possible outcome.

The quest needs to be now to figure why that society is so fractured and what we can do to repair it.

Unfortunately the violence has ended the debated, ended any form of discussion and things will be even more polarised. 

....but if we would've had the debate, discussions and action maybe we wouldn't have got to this point.

All that's happened over the past week was entirely predictable, entirely preventable but fuck me it's set everything back 25 years.

 

Yep. But it’s important to note that this isn’t ’people rising up’ it was instigated by far right machinery online including Robinson and others. It wasn’t a natural groundswell but something deliberately orchestrated. And it’s those people who have set it back. Because maybe if they hadn’t the conversation could have been had. 

[London Wanderer]

Elon Musk now stepping in with the two tier policing argument. 

The state of this poster he commented on. How do people end up believing this nonsense? 

Much easier to go on the attack though than address massive issues your own company and how millions of people ended up believing Muslims were to blame for Southport. 

 

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

I've seen that comparison a few times and it's utterly ridiculous.

Nobody is supporting the violence. Nobody at all. 

Many could see it coming, many warned of it coming. Doesn't mean you support it.

Many warned a fractured society was always going to end up with the worst possible outcome.

The quest needs to be now to figure why that society is so fractured and what we can do to repair it.

Unfortunately the violence has ended the debated, ended any form of discussion and things will be even more polarised. 

....but if we would've had the debate, discussions and action maybe we wouldn't have got to this point.

All that's happened over the past week was entirely predictable, entirely preventable but fuck me it's set everything back 25 years.

 

I also hear this completely predictable bollocks as well about 'how debate was shut down.' 

We've had years of stirring by the people supposed to be leading us for their own gains, trying to dog whistle their way to positions of power. They are ones who have stoked tensions.

[mickbrown]

4 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I've seen that comparison a few times and it's utterly ridiculous.

Nobody is supporting the violence. Nobody at all. 

Many could see it coming, many warned of it coming. Doesn't mean you support it.

Many warned a fractured society was always going to end up with the worst possible outcome.

The quest needs to be now to figure why that society is so fractured and what we can do to repair it.

Unfortunately the violence has ended the debated, ended any form of discussion and things will be even more polarised. 

....but if we would've had the debate, discussions and action maybe we wouldn't have got to this point.

All that's happened over the past week was entirely predictable, entirely preventable but fuck me it's set everything back 25 years.

 

Can't agree with that,

 

The likes of Tommeh and Farage et al, deep down are fucking loving it.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

26 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

They are being pulled in all directions. How many officers have been injured already. Blaming the police is very unfair. They are doing an incredible job that I would not want to do.

I'm not critical of the officers at the coalface, but of those in charge of operations

Birmingham is an area with a demographic that marks it out as a place where in the current climate it's very likely flashpoints will occur, the planned protest/riot was known in advance, and yet there seemed to be no attempt to manage that potential for violence

Not even a dispersal order issued

Irrespective of available resources, it seems a failure to me to leave an area like that exposed

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I'm not critical of the officers at the coalface, but of those in charge of operations

Birmingham is an area with a demographic that marks it out as a place where in the current climate it's very likely flashpoints will occur, the planned protest/riot was known in advance, and yet there seemed to be no attempt to manage that potential for violence

Not even a dispersal order issued

Irrespective of available resources, it seems a failure to me to leave an area like that exposed

The police did intervene and make arrests but I don’t know why they didn’t disperse earlier.

However I would say it’s probably not great to judge operational policing decisions from out of context clips on social media. We don’t know what intelligence they are acting on nor even the full picture. 

[Casino]

1 hour ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

And there are no other forces from other areas available to assist?

In a major city like Birmingham?

like i said, most of this is covered by blokes and women on overtime

not in london, the met is different, but i'd not be volunteering

would you?

[Farrelli]

28 minutes ago, gonzo said:

I've seen that comparison a few times and it's utterly ridiculous.

Nobody is supporting the violence. Nobody at all. 

Many could see it coming, many warned of it coming. Doesn't mean you support it.

Many warned a fractured society was always going to end up with the worst possible outcome.

The quest needs to be now to figure why that society is so fractured and what we can do to repair it.

Unfortunately the violence has ended the debated, ended any form of discussion and things will be even more polarised. 

....but if we would've had the debate, discussions and action maybe we wouldn't have got to this point.

All that's happened over the past week was entirely predictable, entirely preventable but fuck me it's set everything back 25 years.

 

It’s all ridiculous. It is violence being perpetrated by thugs and gullible idiots. It all needs to stop but there are people on here criticising the police which I find utterly bonkers. But because Nigel has said stuff about two tier policing they have all jumped on the bandwagon. His party is a big part of the problem. 

[Zico]

These conversations and debates that need to be had

What do they look like? 

I'm all for it

But where do we go from here

Who is having the discussions from here on in

All you will get from politicians are one way statements

What is going to quash tension?

We're all white on here and we collectively can't agree on any of it

The Tories have set us back years 

Think that's the only thing we agree on 

The ones who might've disagreed have swapped sides or gone AWOL 

So how do we all come together and sort this mess out?

[Farrelli]

1 minute ago, Zico said:

These conversations and debates that need to be had

What do they look like? 

I'm all for it

But where do we go from here

Who is having the discussions from here on in

All you will get from politicians are one way statements

What is going to quash tension?

We're all white on here and we collectively can't agree on any of it

The Tories have set us back years 

Think that's the only thing we agree on 

The ones who might've disagreed have swapped sides or gone AWOL 

So how do we all come together and sort this mess out?

Club shop. Bring your own refreshments 

[mickbrown]

Anyroad. I reckon little Tommeh is finished. 

He’s going to get the max sentence for contempt and the authorities will be crawling up his arse in terms of funding etc. 

I think he’s fucked. 

[London Wanderer]

The biggest issue at play here, by far, is misinformation being spread on social media. 

We've seen it happening for years. It was a matter of time before it blew up. People like TR (who's an angel compared to most in the Twitter cesspit) spreading shite about our nation being invaded by military aged men, who are here to rape and pillage our communities.  When you believe shite like that, you think torching migrants out a hotel is a justified response. 

Is radical Islam an issue? Of course. Is the asylum out of control? Yes. Both need addressing. We need to see organisations like Hope Not Hate and the MSM doing more to call out and target hate coming from minorities in Muslim communities. 

But the issue has been blown well out of proportion by certain players, to the point when people feel they are on the verge of civil war. 

If you want less polarisation, don't bemoan the so called 'shutting down of debate'. Use this as opportunity to reach out to your local mosque, or torched out immigrant business. Send a box of treats to an asylum seeker hotel that was attacked. Regardless of whether you agree with them being there or not. 

It's the "bleeding hearts and love-ins" behaviour that brings communities together. 

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

12 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Club shop. Bring your own refreshments 

Perhaps this is the reason it's currently being refurbished?

[Cheese]

17 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Anyroad. I reckon little Tommeh is finished. 

He’s going to get the max sentence for contempt and the authorities will be crawling up his arse in terms of funding etc. 

I think he’s fucked. 

🤞

[little whitt]

Some Muppet RAYGUN lawyer 

is on now live 

about them 2 innocent 

lads at manchester airport 

[gonzo]

1 hour ago, Not in Crawley said:

I also hear this completely predictable bollocks as well about 'how debate was shut down.' 

We've had years of stirring by the people supposed to be leading us for their own gains, trying to dog whistle their way to positions of power. They are ones who have stoked tensions.

There's having a debate, which often gets tarnished with being right wing bollocks on GB news or Farage/TR whipping up racial hatred, then there's actually taking action to address such issues.

There's a lot of people don't want 300 boat people a day arriving on these shores. A lot don't want hotels across the country filled with migrants at the tax payers expense. 

People don't want an ever growing Muslim population and the sight of super mosques being built all over the gaff.

The debate isn't shut down but it's often dispelled at right wing bollocks and the problem in people's eyes continues to grow. 

Added to every fucker is skint, taxes through the roof, the first problem to blame is additional folk coming in to the country or demographic of folk who often look after their own.

It's like the 1930s all over again.

[Cheese]

The problem is, all these people demanding "action" won't say exactly what action they want taken. Not even Farage and his mob. They either have no clue, or it's so extreme they're not willing to voice it in public.

Edited August 6, 2024 by Cheese

[Guest]

1 minute ago, gonzo said:

There's having a debate, which often gets tarnished with being right wing bollocks on GB news or Farage/TR whipping up racial hatred, then there's actually taking action to address such issues.

There's a lot of people don't want 300 boat people a day arriving on these shores. A lot don't want hotels across the country filled with migrants at the tax payers expense. 

People don't want an ever growing Muslim population and the sight of super mosques being built all over the gaff.

The debate isn't shut down but it's often dispelled at right wing bollocks and the problem in people's eyes continues to grow. 

Added to every fucker is skint, taxes through the roof, the first problem to blame is additional folk coming in to the country or demographic of folk who often look after their own.

It's like the 1930s all over again.

People don’t want it but it needs to be dealt with via facts. The people coming on boats are small fry compared to the people we let in to work or study here. And we have no choice.

Small boats are a problem round the world. It will take time to deal with and ultimately if they are genuine asylum seekers as about 60% are then they are entitled to come here and seek asylum. But they aren’t only coming here. Unless we stop the trade what else is going to stop it? 
 

The problem is I’m not sure what debate can be have with many of the views expressed by the far right online and parroted by those on the streets. If people can’t accept that we need to import people in large numbers or we are fucked - where do you go from there?

 

[Not in Crawley]

Just now, gonzo said:

There's having a debate, which often gets tarnished with being right wing bollocks on GB news or Farage/TR whipping up racial hatred, then there's actually taking action to address such issues.

There's a lot of people don't want 300 boat people a day arriving on these shores. A lot don't want hotels across the country filled with migrants at the tax payers expense. 

People don't want an ever growing Muslim population and the sight of super mosques being built all over the gaff.

The debate isn't shut down but it's often dispelled at right wing bollocks and the problem in people's eyes continues to grow. 

Added to every fucker is skint, taxes through the roof, the first problem to blame is additional folk coming in to the country or demographic of folk who often look after their own.

It's like the 1930s all over again.

Firstly, its really not like the 1930s again. And I hear this 'everything is shut down' I just don't think it is, I think what happens is that people listen to the dog whistles from people and then spout utter non fact based rubbish, and then when they get told the facts people just shout 'MMS rubbish' ...'I'm being shut down' Its facts that are the real victim here.

And all this 'we're a christian country...' the amount of people attending church has declined massively since WW2. We are overwhemlingly a secular nation. This isn't about religon, is about economics and making the enemy of the 'other', and the sad fact is that its people from the same social and economic base, fighting each other - it hurts no one but themselves, their communities and serves only those who can profit from the division amongst a section of our society.

 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

I don't know about shutting debate down as such, but I don't think the country's currently capable of having a rational discussion about immigration, social cohesion, the failure/consequences of multiculturalism (as opposed to multiracialism), etc.

Too often the right puts forward ridiculous arguments, and too often people are far too quick to assume racism and/or mock and dismiss those trying to discuss the issues in good faith

[gonzo]

10 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Firstly, its really not like the 1930s again. And I hear this 'everything is shut down' I just don't think it is, I think what happens is that people listen to the dog whistles from people and then spout utter non fact based rubbish, and then when they get told the facts people just shout 'MMS rubbish' ...'I'm being shut down' Its facts that are the real victim here.

And all this 'we're a christian country...' the amount of people attending church has declined massively since WW2. We are overwhemlingly a secular nation. This isn't about religon, is about economics and making the enemy of the 'other', and the sad fact is that its people from the same social and economic base, fighting each other - it hurts no one but themselves, their communities and serves only those who can profit from the division amongst a section of our society.

 

None of that has anything to do with what I've just said.

And I'd say it's every bit like the 1930s. I repressed society blaming every ill on particular demographic.

We are or have been one of the most tolerant countries in Europe. Our multicultural society is what has made us. However that society is changing rapidly. To dispel it as just Nigel Farage whipping things or blaming it on folk just being skint is hugely naive and is why we are where we are.

Check out the continent. Italy have a right wing government. France have Le Pen and Nation Rally, Wilders making headway in Holland.

You can't just ignore the issues. The politicians in this country need to grab this now and grab it hard.

Or we will end up even in a bigger pickle.

[royal white]

4 hours ago, Farrelli said:

Maybe the police are stretched to the limit by events this week. 

Dont be so naive. 

[gonzo]

This is a great piece.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/32b0876e-9779-40c8-851f-6b2b6caa1460?shareToken=abb960ab4646230608069d9b46798f43

 

Summed up well.