Some judicial sense at last!

[Underpants]

Got 3 with identity issues where I work. Doesn't bother me. Folk can say whatever they want about themselves.  What I don't  agree with is people telling me that I have to participate in this illusion.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

31 minutes ago, only1swanny said:

Was thinking earlier though, 

When the issue arises regarding sport, it's regarding trans women in women's sport,  when it's about toilets it's about trans women using women's.. 

Tbh I don't give a monkeys who uses a mens changing room, not really bothered about toilets and although I don't do sports anymore, I'd have no issue going against a trans man on a sports field. 

So is it just a general distrust of men? 

Re. sport

The women's category exists specifically because it's recognised that comparatively, the average male is physically much stronger than the average female - see senior women's football teams routinely losing quite comfortably to boy's football teams, or the disparity between male and female world records in athletics

It's that sense a male competing in the female category is more obviously perceived as unfair in a way a trans man competing in the men's category is not

Re. toilets/changing rooms

The overwhelming majority of sexual offences are committed by males against females and with that in mind it's understandable why a trans woman in a female toilet/changing room becomes a more highly charged issue than a trans man in a male toilet/changing room

 

[DazBob]

3 hours ago, Traf said:

Sadly, you’re probably right.

Personally I don’t give a shit. My now 20yr old ‘child’ who was born as my daughter wants to live their life as a male and they’re happier now than they’ve ever been.

His happiness is far more important to me.

Mate, R is a diamond, regardless of what he/she/they identify themselves as.

You should be proud... as I know you are.

[bolty58]

3 hours ago, only1swanny said:

So is it just a general distrust of men? 

According to an 'activist' on the news this morning, it definitely is. "A shame trans people have to suffer because of predatory men". What isn't the fault of men according to todays cancel culture cunts?

No idea what planet some of these people are from but so called 'predatory' men is what keeps the species going. If ever they are universally no longer driven to plant their seed, the cockroaches can take over.

[gonzo]

9 hours ago, only1swanny said:

 

So is it just a general distrust of men? 

I'm a man and I don't trust men.

 

[Traf]

7 hours ago, DazBob said:

Mate, R is a diamond, regardless of what he/she/they identify themselves as.

You should be proud... as I know you are.

Thanks, pal, that was lovely.

[Underpants]

10 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Re. sport

The women's category exists specifically because it's recognised that comparatively, the average male is physically much stronger than the average female - see senior women's football teams routinely losing quite comfortably to boy's football teams, or the disparity between male and female world records in athletics

It's that sense a male competing in the female category is more obviously perceived as unfair in a way a trans man competing in the men's category is not

Re. toilets/changing rooms

The overwhelming majority of sexual offences are committed by males against females and with that in mind it's understandable why a trans woman in a female toilet/changing room becomes a more highly charged issue than a trans man in a male toilet/changing room

 

At work a lad who identifies as female has got plenty of support and understanding from the female population. Maybe I've not seen it but I've not seen many males being that matey with him/her though. As understanding and supportive as the female population are a few have raised concerns about him/her using the female toilets. He/she has now been excluded from using them and has been told that he/she will have to use the disabled toilet if he/she doesn't want to use the male toilet.

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Dunno if it has been mentioned above, but the police have now changed from having female officers search trans women, to male officers doing it.

Didn't take long, and says a lot about the forces' management preciously.

[London Wanderer]

19 hours ago, Underpants said:

Got 3 with identity issues where I work. Doesn't bother me. Folk can say whatever they want about themselves.  What I don't  agree with is people telling me that I have to participate in this illusion.

Out of interest, what are they doing to force you to participate? 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

52 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Out of interest, what are they doing to force you to participate? 

Really?

Perhaps have a look at the invasion of the modern version of stonewall into so many of our public services.

The number of people that have lost jobs for having the audacity to express a counter opinion. 

The death threats issued to the likes of Rowling, for daring to challenge this new, creeping order.

Lecturers and guests being forced out of universities.

Ask yourself why have the police responded so quickly?

It's precisely the same type of fear of speaking out that has resulted in thousands of victims of grooming gangs. Being told what to think and say, removing personal responsibility on the alter of fear is unhealthy and indeed dangerous.

Whether it be racism, sexism, or whatever accusations are thrown about, folk all over have (understandably) kept their heads down and accepted the norm for the sake of their own careers, at the expense of being able to do their jobs fully.

Hopefully, we will start to see it all being swept away, and be replaced by traditional common sense, and decency.

Edited April 18 by Tonge moor green jacket

[London Wanderer]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Really?

Perhaps have a look at the invasion of the modern version of stonewall into so many of our public services.

The number of people that have lost jobs for having the audacity to express a counter opinion. 

The death threats issued to the likes of Rowling, for daring to challenge this new, creeping order.

Lecturers and guests being forced out of universities.

Ask yourself why have the police responded so quickly?

It's precisely the same type of fear of speaking out that has resulted in thousands of victims of grooming gangs. Being told what to think and say, removing personal responsibility on the alter of fear is unhealthy and indeed dangerous.

Whether it be racism, sexism, or whatever accusations are thrown about, folk all over have (understandably) kept their heads down and accepted the norm for the sake of their own careers, at the expense of being able to do their jobs fully.

Hopefully, we will start to see it all being swept away, and be replaced by traditional common sense, and decency.

Traditional common sense 😄

 Nice rant, you make a lot of valid points. I’ve a fair bit of sympathy for people like JKR. However, she is hardly reluctant to dish it out. Her abuse & misinformation directed at the Algerian boxer just after her Olympic victory was awful. She can be just as toxic as the other side at times. 
 

You’ve overreacted & completely missed my point anyway.
 

I wasn’t denying the existence of any of the issues you’re speaking about. I was responding to @Underpants comments that people at his work were ‘forcing him to participate’. I was curious what they were doing to make him participate? Also curious why he sees people with identity ‘issues’ as living an illusion?

None of this is me saying he hasn’t faced an issue, I was only asking out of interest.

Sadly I don’t see this court ruling sweeping anything away. Trans people will still struggle to access the support they need & face more abuse from emboldened citizens. And I don’t think it will make women safer.

We need much stronger sentences for abusers. I don’t see this law reigning any predators in 

If it was the start of free speech being protected in the workplace & less overreactions, then that wouldn’t be a bad thing. 

[Cheese]

2 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Out of interest, what are they doing to force you to participate? 

They probably politely asked him to refer to a person who looks like a woman and lives their entire life as a woman "she/her", even though they were born biologically male. That's literally all it takes to set these snowflakes off.

[Underpants]

3 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

Out of interest, what are they doing to force you to participate? 

My comment was not specifically aimed at the people where I work. But aimed more at the community that they are part of. I might not agree but like I said I have no issues with folk who claim to be something. I might think they are bonkers but life is full of bonkers people. But I do have issues if people want me to accept something that they are clearly not. Does this answer your question? 

[London Wanderer]

31 minutes ago, Underpants said:

My comment was not specifically aimed at the people where I work. But aimed more at the community that they are part of. I might not agree but like I said I have no issues with folk who claim to be something. I might think they are bonkers but life is full of bonkers people. But I do have issues if people want me to accept something that they are clearly not. Does this answer your question? 

Cheers mate

Aye, thought the comment was aimed at your own experiences of being forced to participate. My bad. 

Personally I've never really seen it as something to agree or disagree with. Gender dysphoria has always seemed to be quite obviously a real thing for a lot of people. If someone I know is experiencing it, or decides they want to transition, then I don't really have a problem with referring to them by their new identity. Them not being born that way doesn't matter tbh. 

[bolty58]

4 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Really?

Perhaps have a look at the invasion of the modern version of stonewall into so many of our public services.

The number of people that have lost jobs for having the audacity to express a counter opinion. 

The death threats issued to the likes of Rowling, for daring to challenge this new, creeping order.

Lecturers and guests being forced out of universities.

Ask yourself why have the police responded so quickly?

It's precisely the same type of fear of speaking out that has resulted in thousands of victims of grooming gangs. Being told what to think and say, removing personal responsibility on the alter of fear is unhealthy and indeed dangerous.

Whether it be racism, sexism, or whatever accusations are thrown about, folk all over have (understandably) kept their heads down and accepted the norm for the sake of their own careers, at the expense of being able to do their jobs fully.

Hopefully, we will start to see it all being swept away, and be replaced by traditional common sense, and decency.

Hallelujah brother. The voice of common sense.

Make life for the overwhelming majority more simple, not more difficult.

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, bolty58 said:

Hallelujah brother. The voice of common sense.

Make life for the overwhelming majority more simple, not more difficult.

The idiot has awoken.

[bolty58]

I won't bother but note that the Friday night pub courage warrior has arrived.

[Cheese]

I don't get it. Say someone you work with looks/dresses like a woman and has lived as a woman for their entire adult life, and prefers be referred to as "she/her" even though they were born biologically male.... In what way does this negatively affect your life?? It's no different to calling someone by their preferred name. Nobody on here posts using their real name.

[royal white]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

I don't get it. Say someone you work with looks/dresses like a woman and has lived as a woman for their entire adult life, and prefers be referred to as "she/her" even though they were born biologically male.... In what way does this negatively affect your life?? It's no different to calling someone by their preferred name. Nobody on here posts using their real name.

Like when people still call Tommy Robinson Stephen Yaxley Lennon even though his preferred name is TR? 

[bolty58]

8 hours ago, royal white said:

Like when people still call Tommy Robinson Stephen Yaxley Lennon even though his preferred name is TR? 

He doesn't 'get' much. Plant pots don't.

[Bertie]

8 hours ago, royal white said:

Like when people still call Tommy Robinson Stephen Yaxley Lennon even though his preferred name is TR? 

That’s different though.  Calling TR by his real name of SYL is great as it winds him and his racist mates up. The guy should be called a lot worse.

[London Wanderer]

11 hours ago, Cheese said:

I don't get it. Say someone you work with looks/dresses like a woman and has lived as a woman for their entire adult life, and prefers be referred to as "she/her" even though they were born biologically male.... In what way does this negatively affect your life?? It's no different to calling someone by their preferred name. Nobody on here posts using their real name.

That what about Tommy Robinson comment made me laugh. Some attempt at whataboutery there.

I don't understand it either tbh. I get the comments TMJ made earlier, even if it is overplayed at times. But it's odd hearing grown men genuinely struggling to accept someone's changed identity. 

Saying it doesn't bother you, then waffling on about it being bonkers and struggling to refer to them as a she, clearly shows you've got a problem with it. 

Transgender people go back to ancient civilizations, they're everywhere in history. It's normal for people to feel uncomfortable in their own body. Very rarely are these people looking to exploit others or seek attention. 

[royal white]

2 hours ago, Bertie said:

That’s different though.  Calling TR by his real name of SYL is great as it winds him and his racist mates up. The guy should be called a lot worse.

Does it? 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

I wouldn't and don't refuse to refer to a person by their preferred pronouns, but it's subtly different to referring to someone as their preferred name and I can understand why people might not want to

[Zico]

19 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I wouldn't and don't refuse to refer to a person by their preferred pronouns, but it's subtly different to referring to someone as their preferred name and I can understand why people might not want to

I see loads of these preferred pronouns on email signatures and LinkedIn profiles and they are always what I would expect them to be

I've never seen a they/them signature or profile 

My cousin, who is what I'd describe as Sam Smith levels of homosexual, is now a they/them 

I also believe they're in a *thrupple" 

Having known them a long time none of this is a surprise 

And they seem very happy with it all