Transfer Gossip

[peelyfeet]

25 minutes ago, Farnywhite said:

If we’re still in league one your probably right 

Championship too I reckon. Obviously if we get to prem in 5 yrs wed need to buy in shed loads to survive.

[woolli]

1 hour ago, DazBob said:

6ft is tiny for a goalkeeper nowadays.

The average height for goalkeepers in the top European leagues is 6ft 2", not much difference from Southwood! Im sure 2 inches wont make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.

Edited July 7, 2025 by woolli

[Rival Son]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

That's a big call and an obviously informed one.

Hope you're right, you must see some progression.

Thus far over the course of history the return has been incredibly poor.

Can count on one had those who have been sold for profit and gone on to make it.

I think you need to change this to recent history. Throughout our history, we have an excellent record of producing homegrown talent. The 1958 cup final team was famously dubbed the £110 team, because the entire team cost only the £10 signing-on fee.

Subsequently, we continued to produce talent from our youth set-up, including England internationals; Francis Lee and Peter Reid, for example. Even since we were relegated from the Premier League, we’ve produced England internationals Rob Holding and Aaron Ramsdale, along with Zach Clough (sold for £4 million), Josh Vela, and others.

The current England U17 European champions include two Man City players from Bolton and Wigan, who were both snapped up from us by City when Anderson shut our academy!

Don’t judge our record through the chaos of the Anderson years. Though it still hurts, it’s a tiny chapter in our history.

Edited July 7, 2025 by Rival Son

[gonzo]

29 minutes ago, Rival Son said:

I think you need to change this to recent history. Throughout our history, we have an excellent record of producing homegrown talent. The 1958 cup final team was famously dubbed the £110 team, because the entire team cost only the £10 signing-on fee.

Subsequently, we continued to produce talent from our youth set-up, including England internationals; Francis Lee and Peter Reid, for example. Even since we were relegated from the Premier League, we’ve produced England internationals Rob Holding and Aaron Ramsdale, along with Zach Clough (sold for £4 million), Josh Vela, and others.

The current England U17 European champions include two Man City players from Bolton and Wigan, who were both snapped up from us by Ciry when Anderson shut our academy!

Don’t judge our record through the chaos of the Anderson years. Though it still hurts, it’s a tiny chapter in our history.

Indeed.

I'd say since 1990s the return has been pretty poor.

Obviously the premier league era didn't lend itself to bringing youth through.

After Kevin Nolan and Nicky Hunt there's probably only Holding, Clough and Vela worth shouting about.

 

For the vast amounts spent that's not really a great return and obviously it's not just us.

[1969]

44 minutes ago, woolli said:

 Im sure 2 inches wont make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.

Tell my Mrs that 

[Zico]

we got £1M for Chris Basham who went on to have a decent enough career

[Rival Son]

We still haven’t managed to get ourselves into a higher league than Ronan Darcy, who’s plying his league one trade around 6 miles away, while Dennis Politic has moved on to the Champions League and Romanian national side.

Edited July 7, 2025 by Rival Son

[frank_spencer]

14 minutes ago, Zico said:

we got £1M for Chris Basham who went on to have a decent enough career

Nolan, Joey O'Brien and even VazTe went on to have ok careers at West Ham.

More recently Politic is now at the top Romanian team. Luca Connell would walk into our side.

There has definitely been talent there over the years but through lack of trust in the precarious situations we've been in they never got their chances.

[Arrested development]

Kyle Bartley I think we got a decent fee for off arsenal. Also can't forget the Bolton Baresi , Nat Phillips. 

[Arrested development]

1 hour ago, woolli said:

The average height for goalkeepers in the top European leagues is 6ft 2", not much difference from Southwood! Im sure 2 inches wont make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.

6ft is too small for a keeper. Smaller arms too. Just off watching him last season, he never came off his line for corners or crosses.  If your gonna be smaller you need to be ridiculously athletic , and he isn't. 

[DazBob]

1 hour ago, woolli said:

The average height for goalkeepers in the top European leagues is 6ft 2", not much difference from Southwood! Im sure 2 inches wont make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.

Would you rather have a 6ft or a 6ft 2 goalkeeper?

[woolli]

12 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Would you rather have a 6ft or a 6ft 2 goalkeeper?

No brainer, i was merely pointing out that 2" difference is neither here or there. So our goalies now, one 6ft 2", and one 6ft 1" I would prefer a goalie 6ft 4 plus, but SS seems to be happy with " smaller" goalies.

Edited July 7, 2025 by woolli

[Tonge moor green jacket]

6 minutes ago, woolli said:

No brainer, i was merely pointing out that 2" difference is neither here or there. So our goalies now, one 6ft 2", and one 6ft 1" I would prefer a goalie 6ft 4 plus, but SS seems to be happy with " smaller" goalies.

They don't employ anyone until they've been vetted and shown to fit the requisite criteria. 

Maybe SS wants keepers with a more positive, commanding approach?

It isn't purely about height, but if someone isn't tall, then they need to make up for it in presence. 

It may also be the case that Southwood wanted to be a number one, and wasn't going to be, so pushed for a transfer. 

[thebells]

27 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

They don't employ anyone until they've been vetted and shown to fit the requisite criteria. 

Maybe SS wants keepers with a more positive, commanding approach?

It isn't purely about height, but if someone isn't tall, then they need to make up for it in presence. 

It may also be the case that Southwood wanted to be a number one, and wasn't going to be, so pushed for a transfer. 

Almost certain your last sentence nailed it. Think Southwood played more games than he expected last season, but I'd been told he was brought in to take over from Baxter when he left (as he'd made it clear some time ago that was his plan). Had we got promoted, Baxter may have stayed but Southwood would have got decent League One offers off back of this. As it was, everything went wrong quickly, Southwood got more chances by default (and Baxter started panicking around March when he wasn't being picked / new manager came in, and suddenly started talking about his love for Bolton).

I think this works out well for everyone in the end, and I think Sharman Lowe will be a James Trafford type figure by the end of the season.

... and in other news, Keith Branagan was (and still is) 6 feet tall. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, blah blah blah! (last bit not aimed at you @Tonge moor green jacket)

[Popeye doyle]

1 hour ago, Arrested development said:

Kyle Bartley I think we got a decent fee for off arsenal. Also can't forget the Bolton Baresi , Nat Phillips. 

Rob Holding as well and he went to Arsenal too.

[Zico]

1 hour ago, frank_spencer said:

Nolan, Joey O'Brien and even VazTe went on to have ok careers at West Ham.

More recently Politic is now at the top Romanian team. Luca Connell would walk into our side.

There has definitely been talent there over the years but through lack of trust in the precarious situations we've been in they never got their chances.

got £1m for Danny Ward as well

[Casino]

8 minutes ago, Zico said:

got £1m for Danny Ward as well

like a few others mentioned, we only got him mid teens - older with ward iirc

[peelyfeet]

In real terms, theres 700 English players in the prem and championship squads. You need to be around the top 10 english players in the country in your birth year for the position you play in to have a chance of being in the 700. Less if you're a keeper. Difficult.

[thebells]

6 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

In real terms, theres 700 English players in the prem and championship squads. You need to be around the top 10 english players in the country in your birth year for the position you play in to have a chance of being in the 700. Less if you're a keeper. Difficult.

I try to remember stuff like this when i'm frustrated with players. Collins touch at times seems like that of an average amateur player, and used to drive me mad (mainly because it seemed like he didn't care - which may or may not be true). But the reality is, he would have been the best player on his school team, town team, academy team and, for his age, probably in the top 2 or 3 in his area / region. 

3 people i know went on to play pro football (all retired now). The sacrifices they made and the dedication they had was unreal even from a young age. None of them were the most naturally gifted players (one went on to play for England), but it was the dedication that brought your odds in their favour.

Fair play to anyone who makes it pro - almost always fully deserved for what they put into it

[Zico]

32 minutes ago, Casino said:

like a few others mentioned, we only got him mid teens - older with ward iirc

aye, like nolan he was 16

maybe that's a better approach than starting from scratch

[peelyfeet]

9 minutes ago, Zico said:

aye, like nolan he was 16

maybe that's a better approach than starting from scratch

Current u18s there's 2 who been here from age 5, 2 from about 11 and rest late teens. There's a mass exodus from higher academies at 14 and 16.

[peelyfeet]

22 minutes ago, thebells said:

I try to remember stuff like this when i'm frustrated with players. Collins touch at times seems like that of an average amateur player, and used to drive me mad (mainly because it seemed like he didn't care - which may or may not be true). But the reality is, he would have been the best player on his school team, town team, academy team and, for his age, probably in the top 2 or 3 in his area / region. 

3 people i know went on to play pro football (all retired now). The sacrifices they made and the dedication they had was unreal even from a young age. None of them were the most naturally gifted players (one went on to play for England), but it was the dedication that brought your odds in their favour.

Fair play to anyone who makes it pro - almost always fully deserved for what they put into it

Mentality is the most important factor. You've got some lads at 18/19 in academies who've never been pissed, don't eat shit food, go for runs every other day when theyre on holiday aged 14 onwards, dont socialise past 9.30pm, dont stay up late, can't have a holiday in summer with their mates / girlfriends who are at college or uni, dont get Xmas off. And most of them won't make it past 21yrs old and they won't have been to uni / college.

[gonzo]

43 minutes ago, thebells said:

I try to remember stuff like this when i'm frustrated with players. Collins touch at times seems like that of an average amateur player, and used to drive me mad (mainly because it seemed like he didn't care - which may or may not be true). But the reality is, he would have been the best player on his school team, town team, academy team and, for his age, probably in the top 2 or 3 in his area / region. 

3 people i know went on to play pro football (all retired now). The sacrifices they made and the dedication they had was unreal even from a young age. None of them were the most naturally gifted players (one went on to play for England), but it was the dedication that brought your odds in their favour.

Fair play to anyone who makes it pro - almost always fully deserved for what they put into it

Mad really innit.

Lad called Kieron Donelly was the best player in my age group. Best by a long margin. Everyone thought he'd be a future England player and stuff.

Lad ended up in Blackpool Reserves as his peak.

[thebells]

14 minutes ago, peelyfeet said:

Mentality is the most important factor. You've got some lads at 18/19 in academies who've never been pissed, don't eat shit food, go for runs every other day when theyre on holiday aged 14 onwards, dont socialise past 9.30pm, dont stay up late, can't have a holiday in summer with their mates / girlfriends who are at college or uni, dont get Xmas off. And most of them won't make it past 21yrs old and they won't have been to uni / college.

Yep - it's a tough one as to whether the clubs have a role in preparing these lads for life beyond football, or whether parents should be better informed about the high chance of not making it. I imagine many parents get swept up in the dream. Interestingly, of the 3 lads (old men now) i know who made it, none of their parents were pushy or cared too much beyond taking their son wherever he needed to go. 

By contrast, i know a lad in U16s at Morecambe who's Dad has pushed him to his limits every day for last 5 years. He's fallen out of love with football and there's now an upset Dad and a resentful son.

My 15 year old son has always been a 'bang average' grass roots player, and I'm forever grateful we've never had the academy dilemma.

[peelyfeet]

2 minutes ago, thebells said:

Yep - it's a tough one as to whether the clubs have a role in preparing these lads for life beyond football, or whether parents should be better informed about the high chance of not making it. I imagine many parents get swept up in the dream. Interestingly, of the 3 lads (old men now) i know who made it, none of their parents were pushy or cared too much beyond taking their son wherever he needed to go. 

By contrast, i know a lad in U16s at Morecambe who's Dad has pushed him to his limits every day for last 5 years. He's fallen out of love with football and there's now an upset Dad and a resentful son.

My 15 year old son has always been a 'bang average' grass roots player, and I'm forever grateful we've never had the academy dilemma.

The majority get dropped at 14 16 18. Its the ones who get a pro deal at 18 for a few years on low wages who end up released at 22 that it hits the hardest. Just not quite good enough and have missed out on being a teenager and education. Tough.