Politics

[Whitesince63]

7 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

The Polish PM is quoted as saying “a trade war is a lose-lose situation”. Nobody wants it but if the UK government break an international agreement that is where we are heading. It is ludicrous to blame the EU but Bozo and his muppets have nothing else to offer.

Who’s breaking International Law? Clauses 15 and 16 allow for what the UK is doing. In fact you could better argue that it’s the EU who are breaking International law because the GFA is being damaged by their actions. It’s just that the UK don’t throw their toys out of the pram when somebody stands up to them.

[Ani]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Have not seen the Bill but from how it is explained goods going to NI need not have import documentation same as if you were delivering to anywhere in the UK, currently goods being delivered to NI need that documentation, Red lane goods will need export documents if moving onto Eire.

The protocol is not working and as per the agreement has a stipulation that diversion of trade should not happen, this has happened and UK mainland companies are losing business because of the additional paperwork and added extra costs.

Therefore the protocol needs amending as per the agreement, the EU have not been flexible and that has resulted in this UK bill. 

And goods moving from Northern Ireland to Eire ? Can they just move freely ? 

[Farrelli]

1 minute ago, Whitesince63 said:

Who’s breaking International Law? Clauses 15 and 16 allow for what the UK is doing. In fact you could better argue that it’s the EU who are breaking International law because the GFA is being damaged by their actions. It’s just that the UK don’t throw their toys out of the pram when somebody stands up to them.

Brexit itself is not compatible with the GFA so the protocol was agreed by both parties as a compromise to a hard border. The UK have to negotiate with the EU rather than threaten unilateral action. 

[fatolive]

7 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Don’t need to, the bollocks he spouts never changes. Give your head a wobble, the guys a numpty and you’ll never get a word of sense from him.

And you know he didn’t get grilled, and spoke bollocks without listening to him. 

right . Ok 👍 

[Morizio]

14 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Don’t need to, the bollocks he spouts never changes. Give your head a wobble, the guys a numpty and you’ll never get a word of sense from him.

Somebody is saying something I don’t agree with so I’m not going to listen. 

[Mounts Kipper]

6 minutes ago, Ani said:

And goods moving from Northern Ireland to Eire ? Can they just move freely ? 

I have not seen the bill so I cannot answer that.   

[Farrelli]

9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Have not seen the Bill but from how it is explained goods going to NI need not have import documentation same as if you were delivering to anywhere in the UK, currently goods being delivered to NI need that documentation, Red lane goods will need export documents if moving onto Eire.

The protocol is not working and as per the agreement has a stipulation that diversion of trade should not happen, this has happened and UK mainland companies are losing business because of the additional paperwork and added extra costs.

Therefore the protocol needs amending as per the agreement, the EU have not been flexible and that has resulted in this UK bill. 

The UK government had plenty of opportunities to negotiate along these lines or ask for additional time in 2019/2020. They failed to do so and instead proclaimed they had a great deal. Being flexible is just an emotive term that means nothing. An international agreement is binding and can only be revised when both parties agree.

[Winchester White]

The majority of the elected assembly in NI do not want the UK to invoke these unilateral changes.

DUP being a pain in the arse as per usual.

[fatolive]

1 minute ago, Winchester White said:

The majority of the elected assembly in NI do not want the UK to invoke these unilateral changes.

DUP being a pain in the arse as per usual.

Same DUP who oppose the GFA now saying it’s undermining it . 
 

 

[Winchester White]

On the subject of Rwanda, we are currently down to just 7 on tonight's flight.

However, I heard on the radio earlier that if you are sent there and then are successful in your asylum application, the Government then won't bring you back to the UK. That can't be right, surely?

[Whitesince63]

19 minutes ago, fatolive said:

And you know he didn’t get grilled, and spoke bollocks without listening to him. 

right . Ok 👍 

Yawn!

 

 

[fatolive]

34 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It is all about manoeuvring for a united Ireland from the pair of them.    

Lol 

so far off the mark it’s not worth getting into as it drags the thread into Irish Politics which no one wants . 

His Party , Fine Gael derogatory name from opponents is “ west Brits” 

 

[fatolive]

9 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Yawn!

 

 

That’s certainly told me and proved your point 👍

 

[Mounts Kipper]

20 minutes ago, fatolive said:

Lol 

so far off the mark it’s not worth getting into as it drags the thread into Irish Politics which no one wants . 

His Party , Fine Gael derogatory name from opponents is “ west Brits” 

 

Really? 

Generational shift means Fine Gael is re-engaged with unity project - The Irish News

 

[Sweep]

27 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

On the subject of Rwanda, we are currently down to just 7 on tonight's flight.

However, I heard on the radio earlier that if you are sent there and then are successful in your asylum application, the Government then won't bring you back to the UK. That can't be right, surely?

Correct, if your asylum application is granted, then you stay in Rwanda, you don't come back to the UK  -  sounds a bit odd doesn't it 

[Duck Egg]

42 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

Brexit itself is not compatible with the GFA so the protocol was agreed by both parties as a compromise to a hard border. The UK have to negotiate with the EU rather than threaten unilateral action. 

There's the rub.

I can't see how a popular, competent Government could work a compromise that's acceptable to everyone, so I've no idea how this lot will manage it.  Perhaps not signing up to it in the first place might have helped! 

What a mess we're in.

[jayjayoghani]

2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Really? 

Generational shift means Fine Gael is re-engaged with unity project - The Irish News

 

I've made this mistake in the past,  assuming the Republic and more importantly its people want a united Ireland. Used to work with an Irish geezer who was adamant most people these days accepted the 2 nation status quo. 

[mickbrown]

44 minutes ago, Morizio said:

Somebody is saying something I don’t agree with so I’m not going to listen. 

Yet still slate them for what they might not have said.

[Mounts Kipper]

22 minutes ago, jayjayoghani said:

I've made this mistake in the past,  assuming the Republic and more importantly its people want a united Ireland. Used to work with an Irish geezer who was adamant most people these days accepted the 2 nation status quo. 

From what I've heard from Coveney I think they are beginning to look at a united Ireland and that article confirms it. 

[fatolive]

12 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Really? 

Generational shift means Fine Gael is re-engaged with unity project - The Irish News

 

Yes

like I say it gets into the realm of Irish politics and that statement would be disputed , (as would the west brits one by them )

Way more complex , that article probably as a result of Sinn Féin’s growth in support , if the minister was Fianna Fáil I wouldn’t have commented, but Fine Gael don’t stand on that ticket , your article is one TD who says it could/ should but traditionally they don’t 

I could post articles from them saying the same , I won’t as it gets into a whole different subject 

it’s the legacy of the civil war that divides and differentiates  the main parties traditionally. 

But, as I said , not a discussion for here, it’s a whole different subject. 

[Ani]

GFA working fine

We vote to Leave

Promise of a technology solution we do not have one and it is hard to see how technology resolves two opposing views 

Theresa May agrees a deal - we reject it

 Boris rushed through his over ready deal

It does not work so we announce we want to rip it up and start again

So we have fucked the EU off three times. We have a serial liar in control who is desperate to protect his own political career , irrespective of impact on anyone and anything else. So any negotiations are not conducted behind the scenes as they were for the original GFA, they are paper headlines to prop up the fuck storm running the country. We even have Liz Truss leading the charge.

But it is the EU being intransigent. 

The fact is that Boris is like a punch drunk boxer throwing badly thought out and unplanned solutions out there as needs something to save his neck. Such a weak leader is a disaster for all of us 

[Ani]

Just had 2 Irish blokes and radio, one representing the dairy industry, said current deal works fine. The some horticulture type industry says it is a nightmare. 
So it just gets more complicated, different industries need different solutions and add on the political sides over there always having opposing views it really is incredibly complex. 

[Farrelli]

38 minutes ago, Ani said:

GFA working fine

We vote to Leave

Promise of a technology solution we do not have one and it is hard to see how technology resolves two opposing views 

Theresa May agrees a deal - we reject it

 Boris rushed through his over ready deal

It does not work so we announce we want to rip it up and start again

So we have fucked the EU off three times. We have a serial liar in control who is desperate to protect his own political career , irrespective of impact on anyone and anything else. So any negotiations are not conducted behind the scenes as they were for the original GFA, they are paper headlines to prop up the fuck storm running the country. We even have Liz Truss leading the charge.

But it is the EU being intransigent. 

The fact is that Boris is like a punch drunk boxer throwing badly thought out and unplanned solutions out there as needs something to save his neck. Such a weak leader is a disaster for all of us 

That sums it up well.

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, Farrelli said:

The UK government had plenty of opportunities to negotiate along these lines or ask for additional time in 2019/2020. They failed to do so and instead proclaimed they had a great deal. Being flexible is just an emotive term that means nothing. An international agreement is binding and can only be revised when both parties agree.

 

 

Article 16 is an emergency mechanism in the Protocol that either the UK or the EU can use to introduce temporary safeguard measures to protect its economy and society. This is only if the application of the Protocol leads to “serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist”, or to “diversion of trade”.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Mounts Kipper

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Article 16 is an emergency mechanism in the Protocol that either the UK or the EU can use to introduce temporary safeguard measures to protect its economy and society. This is only if the application of the Protocol leads to “serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist”, or to “diversion of trade”.

We're not triggering Article 16 though....

 

https://davidallengreen.com/2022/06/the-bare-necessity-how-the-legal-position-of-the-united-kingdom-on-the-northern-irish-protocol-bill-makes-no-sense/

Edited June 14, 2022 by Cheese