Take Over

[Casino]

You talk like nothing is happening

[Damocles]

Any guesses as to how both KA and Fildraw have £6M- £7M variances from the administrators? 

Presumably if this discrepancy isn’t dealt with then it leaves FV open to significant future costs at some point in the future?

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

11 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

I mean surely anyone can loan or gift the business money to do what it wants with? Or more likely act as a guarantor for the EFL to advance the structural payment? 

Someone is going to have to explore options pretty quickly because surely there is a risk FV don’t complete in time. And we have to have a plan b to compete in the first fixture. 

I'm fairly certain it has to be a director. It was one of the reasons why Bassini couldn't pay the wages of the players and staff to get the Brentford match on, if I remember correctly.

I'm sure it's something to do with preventing money laundering. A loan secured against assets is obviously a different thing, but, as I say, I'm pretty certain it's not possible to just pour money in for nothing in return without being a director / owner.

[bwfcfan5]

12 minutes ago, Casino said:

You talk like nothing is happening

The hold up is the hotel deal - I’m not sure anyone can do much on the football side. Im not sure who is actually able to do anything to ensure we can sign a suitable squad and start the season as things stand....I’m sure they are pushing to do the hotel deal but it’s only in quantumas gift...

[Tommy Banks]

31 minutes ago, Damocles said:

Any guesses as to how both KA and Fildraw have £6M- £7M variances from the administrators? 

Presumably if this discrepancy isn’t dealt with then it leaves FV open to significant future costs at some point in the future?

What puzzles me is both parties are claiming variances about what is owed to them yet don’t seem to be able to back it up. Otherwise the administrators would have found the sums in question 

[Benny The Ball]

20 minutes ago, Damocles said:

Any guesses as to how both KA and Fildraw have £6M- £7M variances from the administrators? 

Presumably if this discrepancy isn’t dealt with then it leaves FV open to significant future costs at some point in the future?

Ok I will have a go ...

Both are claiming the same £5 million that the ED trust lent to KA ( that came into BWFC via Inner Circle ) 

I reason there may either be an issue with KA's  charge as the Football club may have been technically insolvent at the  time he registered it and it may therefore not be valid as he is trying to put himself ahead of unsecured creditors if that is the case - hence his discrepancy or the administrator has simply said Inner Circle need to claim this - not you personally 

Ed trustees are simply pursuing the £5 million via BWFC based on charge registered on 7/9/18  rather than against Inner Circle whom they hold a similar charge over which was again registered on 7/9/18 - it may not be recorded in BWFC books because they have been advised its a liability  of Inner Circle 

The differences between sums claimed  being default interest

I am probably wrong ... can you enlighten us ?  

 

 

[Sluffy]

1 hour ago, Benny The Ball said:

Ok I will have a go ...

Both are claiming the same £5 million that the ED trust lent to KA ( that came into BWFC via Inner Circle ) 

I reason there may either be an issue with KA's  charge as the Football club may have been technically insolvent at the  time he registered it and it may therefore not be valid as he is trying to put himself ahead of unsecured creditors if that is the case - hence his discrepancy or the administrator has simply said Inner Circle need to claim this - not you personally 

Ed trustees are simply pursuing the £5 million via BWFC based on charge registered on 7/9/18  rather than against Inner Circle whom they hold a similar charge over which was again registered on 7/9/18 - it may not be recorded in BWFC books because they have been advised its a liability  of Inner Circle 

The differences between sums claimed  being default interest

I am probably wrong ... can you enlighten us ?  

I've gone down a similar line previously, namely I've questioned how legal it was for KA to secure money against something that he knew was already fully secured against to its maximum value? 

He can pay off the BM £5M to free up assets to secure against OR he could secure the £5m against other assets that had not been fully secured against THEN pay off BM (leaving £5m assets without a charge on them) but I question how, with the same £5m could he secure against the assets BM had secured against, pay off BM and still have his £5m secured against assets he's just paid off???

How with £5m can you pay off £5m and still have £5m worth of secured assets???

To do that you would need to put £10m in, would you not?

If he had nothing to secure against then how could he claim to be a secured creditor?

As for EDT I'm less sure. 

Maybe they have taken some sort of control over ICI Ltd for non settlement of the debt owed to them (crystallised their debt?) and claiming the £5m owed to it as KA's secured creditor status in the club?

There's nothing on Company House records to suggest anything like that may have happened so I have serious doubts about this being the case myself.

[jayjayoghani]

1 hour ago, Sluffy said:

He can pay off the BM £5M to free up assets to secure against OR he could secure the £5m against other assets that had not been fully secured against THEN pay off BM (leaving £5m assets without a charge on them) but I question how, with the same £5m could he secure against the assets BM had secured against, pay off BM and still have his £5m secured against assets he's just paid off???

Think this one sentence sums up why I'm incapable of grasping all this shit. 

[gonzo]

Bet those at Fildraw fuckin hate bolton wanderers 😂😂

[Chris Custodiet]

7 hours ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Think you are being unduly harsh on Maguire he highlights in red the 1617 audited accounts in the table and the para referencing last season's management accounts. Only thing he is 'guilty' of is not explicitly drawing a distinction between audited and management accounts, which considering he is character limited on twitter is fair enough - only accountants would be that bothered about the difference between the two anyway imo. 

On Iles fair enough, though I don't know why you are bringing him into the conversation with me as I didn't mention him. 

Maguire brought the 'mighty Iles' into the conversation and I guess you missed this quote from Maguire (courtesy of Okocha 10)

"2017/2018 figures are mysteriously missing, preventing disclosure of how much Ken Anderson paid himself that year".

Its a shame there aren't enough vowels to come up with a good acronym to include Maguire and Conn with FIBS (maybe McFibs) but they all seem to share the same attitudes and predispositions.

[Ratwhite]

Blah blah blah EFL blah blah blah blah blah blah blah KA 2015-16, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Football ventures, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Ken Anderson - thieving cockney bastard, (and his son Leonardo) blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah bla LESS THAN TWO FUCKING WEEKS!!!

NO CHANCE. 

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah who knows the real truth, only Mulder and Scully can sort this out..

[Spider]

20 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Maguire brought the 'mighty Iles' into the conversation and I guess you missed this quote from Maguire (courtesy of Okocha 10)

"2017/2018 figures are mysteriously missing, preventing disclosure of how much Ken Anderson paid himself that year".

Its a shame there aren't enough vowels to come up with a good acronym to include Maguire and Conn with FIBS (maybe McFibs) but they all seem to share the same attitudes and predispositions.

Surely you're not suggesting that everyone involved is out to make themselves money?

 

[Chris Custodiet]

7 hours ago, Damocles said:

Any guesses as to how both KA and Fildraw have £6M- £7M variances from the administrators? 

Presumably if this discrepancy isn’t dealt with then it leaves FV open to significant future costs at some point in the future?

I think that you will find that I have dealt with the £7.5m on more than one occasion.

£2.5m possibly advanced to KA by ED to provide financial support to BWFC. c.Sept-Dec 2017.

£5m advanced to pay  off BM and provide further financial support Sept 2018.

If I am right, the £2.5m should have been entered in the books in the 2017/18 year as a directors loan.

The £5m may not have been entered in the books in 2018/19, if it (or most of it) went to BM without the bank accounts of BL or BWFC being affected.

In-house accountants frequently deal only with the management accounts whilst the financial accounts are left to the auditors who have more expertise in this area. So transactions like the BM repayment might not have been fully recorded in the books of BWFC but left in abeyance until the auditors arrived..

Similarly the agreement of directors fees, bonuses or other charges are also left until the auditors do their work. They have the expertise to advise fully on such matters.

There was £10m of ED's previous loans still standing in the books which were to be repaid only on certain eventualities. Its not known exactly what those eventualities were, maybe the appointment of an administrator was one of them.

It might have been helpful if Rubin's had explained all this but they may have had their reasons for not doing. I expect KA also had his reasons for bringing Quantuma into the reckoning but it was probably more defensive than anything else. He couldn't be left having to find £7.5m to repay ED trustees without relying on the security for the money.

[rochdale white]

8 hours ago, RoadRunnerFan said:

Think you are being unduly harsh on Maguire he highlights in red the 1617 audited accounts in the table and the para referencing last season's management accounts. Only thing he is 'guilty' of is not explicitly drawing a distinction between audited and management accounts, which considering he is character limited on twitter is fair enough - only accountants would be that bothered about the difference between the two anyway imo. 

On Iles fair enough, though I don't know why you are bringing him into the conversation with me as I didn't mention him. 

Because he shagged his wife!

[bolty58]

1 hour ago, Ratwhite said:

Blah blah blah EFL blah blah blah blah blah blah blah KA 2015-16, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Football ventures, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Ken Anderson - thieving cockney bastard, (and his son Leonardo) blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah bla LESS THAN TWO FUCKING WEEKS!!!

NO CHANCE. 

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah who knows the real truth, only Mulder and Scully can sort this out..

 Reading the 20 years of Wanderersways thread and then this one you'd wonder when the mad fuckers were replaced by the mass debaters.

[RoadRunnerFan]

1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said:

Maguire brought the 'mighty Iles' into the conversation and I guess you missed this quote from Maguire (courtesy of Okocha 10)

"2017/2018 figures are mysteriously missing, preventing disclosure of how much Ken Anderson paid himself that year".

Its a shame there aren't enough vowels to come up with a good acronym to include Maguire and Conn with FIBS (maybe McFibs) but they all seem to share the same attitudes and predispositions.

 

Understand your frustration with Iles, though I think he has raised his game recently.

Conn is a good journalist, and whilst the article which has offended you was awful, it's about 13 years old.

Maguire is not a journalist, he's someone journalists turn to for help in situations like this, his credentials are excellent. 

Knock yourself out with acronyms if that's what floats your boat, don't expect anyone else to find it funny though. 

[bwfcfan5]

10 hours ago, tomski said:

They’ve not done their one job yet. I’ll reserve reservation 

Their job is to try and save the business and maximise the return for creditors. If that cannot be done then they have to liquidate. They've very much done their job. They've lined up a buyer and are ready to complete. Not their fault that said buyer want to buy another separate business from a separate administration process.

 

[gonzo]

Jay 2345 wants strike action. It simply has to be forced.

 

Now.

 

 

[masi 51]

First bit of sence on here in about thirty pages

[Mounts Kipper]

14 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Their job is to try and save the business and maximise the return for creditors. If that cannot be done then they have to liquidate. They've very much done their job. They've lined up a buyer and are ready to complete. Not their fault that said buyer want to buy another separate business from a separate administration process.

 

Lined up a buyer? The same buyer who’s been on the scene since before administration and one who’s seemingly reluctant to complete. Shit job done in my eyes. 

[bwfcfan5]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Lined up a buyer? The same buyer who’s been on the scene since before administration and one who’s seemingly reluctant to complete. Shit job done in my eyes. 

No it isn't a shit job. Administrators aren't there to magically find a whizzbang billionaire. The marketed the business and got to an agreed sale with the party that offered the most money. That is all they can do - all they could expect to do. 

[masi 51]

These are not football fans

They have no affinity to the club bar Michael James.

When will people realise they want the site not the team.

 

If it takes another three weeks before they get the hotel fine with them.

[Mounts Kipper]

6 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

No it isn't a shit job. Administrators aren't there to magically find a whizzbang billionaire. The marketed the business and got to an agreed sale with the party that offered the most money. That is all they can do - all they could expect to do. 

They didn’t find FV, failed to identity that FV plan depended on them first buying the hotel, FV haven’t completed and still might not and the admin have been paid handsomely, at the moment looks anything but job well done to me, perhaps we have a different view of what job well done looks like. 

[Rizlar]

I am reserving my opinion until a final outcome is reached.

 

 

 

[Sluffy]

5 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

First bit of sence on here in about thirty pages

Really???

The Administrator hasn't got any monies to pay them with (the £1m deposited plus what's remaining in the club isn't enough to clear the full amount of wages owing)

JV don't seem to want/are unable to put more in until the hotel is secured.

EFL wants someone to financially guarantee that if the club is allowed to start the season it can finish it.

If the players wont play until they are paid in full then JV can't give that undertaking.

The EFL refuses to allow BWFC to enter the league for the coming season.

JV then has no reason to want the club anymore - nor would anyone else.

They walk away.

BWFAC is liquidated.

OR

Players accept to defer full payment of wages for a couple of years and don't strike.

Club saved.