Meanwhile in Israel

[Ani]

12 hours ago, Not in Crawley said:

Another reason why Gervais should have been put to pasture after that second series of scarine shite he did.

He is aggressive in his Atheism, basically saying if you believe in anything you are a fool.

He misses so many complexities of what it is to be self aware, but yet have so little idea about the vastness.

I totally agree with the ideas; just don't like the arrogance or the dismissive attitude to faith that it breads.

Think about the hymns you've sung, the joy of seeing a place of faith in a shitty community, a call to pray over the Bosphorus or hearing a choral choir on Christmas Morning or at Epiphany.

Small moments of beauty.

Save me from a totally secular world. As humans we need faith, in its many beautiful forms.

I agree on Gervais he has moments of absolute comedy genius and at times very grounded despite his massive fame. But he just seems an annoying prick too. I mentioned him as the aggressive atheism is him all over but his routine is as unwoke as you get. Found that link hard to follow.

I also agree on religion/faith at this time of year from school nativity to senior church groups there are countless examples of when it is clearly a good thing. 

[Not in Crawley]

2 minutes ago, Ani said:

I agree on Gervais he has moments of absolute comedy genius and at times very grounded despite his massive fame. But he just seems an annoying prick too. I mentioned him as the aggressive atheism is him all over but his routine is as unwoke as you get. Found that link hard to follow.

I also agree on religion/faith at this time of year from school nativity to senior church groups there are countless examples of when it is clearly a good thing. 

Yeah - he seems like a really decent bloke like you say, and clearly have funny bones, I find his animal love a bit odd, but that's just me being a mean spirited git.

As I get older, I am drawn more towards faith, and not just in oh its really interesting sort of way - was going to do RS at Sixth Form but choose History instead - my eldest does it for her A-Levels. But after being really dismissive of people with faith myself for years I think there is something in it - not in a bloke with a white beard sort of way or I'll see dead relatives sitting on a cloud when I die, but in more of a spiritual/nature way that can allow a person to experience life in a richer, deeper way possibly. I might be talking utter bollocks as per, but personally I do find something moving about being in  church and if individuals find strength in it in the utter desolateness of being a self-aware tiny insignificant speck. Then fair enough for me.

[Cheese]

32 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Yeah - he seems like a really decent bloke like you say, and clearly have funny bones, I find his animal love a bit odd, but that's just me being a mean spirited git.

As I get older, I am drawn more towards faith, and not just in oh its really interesting sort of way - was going to do RS at Sixth Form but choose History instead - my eldest does it for her A-Levels. But after being really dismissive of people with faith myself for years I think there is something in it - not in a bloke with a white beard sort of way or I'll see dead relatives sitting on a cloud when I die, but in more of a spiritual/nature way that can allow a person to experience life in a richer, deeper way possibly. I might be talking utter bollocks as per, but personally I do find something moving about being in  church and if individuals find strength in it in the utter desolateness of being a self-aware tiny insignificant speck. Then fair enough for me.

It also convinces those individuals to hate 'others' for no logical reason.

[Ani]

7 minutes ago, Cheese said:

It also convinces those individuals to hate 'others' for no logical reason.

Are you saying anyone who gets in involved in any 'faith' activity end up hating others ? 

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Ani said:

Are you saying anyone who gets in involved in any 'faith' activity end up hating others ? 

No.

[Ani]

29 minutes ago, Cheese said:

No.

What are you saying ? 

[Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Ani said:

What are you saying ? 

I'm saying religion does far more 'bad' than it does 'good'.

[Not in Crawley]

47 minutes ago, Cheese said:

It also convinces those individuals to hate 'others' for no logical reason.

As do many other things, and historically a lot of that is political rather than ecumenical.

People have gone to war over kings, queens, imaginary made up lines on a map.

Also without religion we wouldn't have many of the greatest developments in the world today - usch as in the Golden Age of Islam the notable advancements in Mathematics, and indeed flouished because of its willingness to intergrate other civilisations - which admitadly they conquered!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the secular western thought that puts the spiritual and religious into boxes marked silly or stupid isn't always the way for humanity to grow, communities to bond, and individuals to thrive.

[Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

As do many other things, and historically a lot of that is political rather than ecumenical.

People have gone to war over kings, queens, imaginary made up lines on a map.

Also without religion we wouldn't have many of the greatest developments in the world today - usch as in the Golden Age of Islam the notable advancements in Mathematics, and indeed flouished because of its willingness to intergrate other civilisations - which admitadly they conquered!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the secular western thought that puts the spiritual and religious into boxes marked silly or stupid isn't always the way for humanity to grow, communities to bond, and individuals to thrive.

None more than religion.

 

[Not in Crawley]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

None more than religion.

 

I just think its a smidgy bit arrogant, and inacurrate, to dismiss religion and faith as simply binary doing bad or doing good.

But hey, its your view - we're all on a journey, brother.

[fatolive]

19 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I'm saying religion does far more 'bad' than it does 'good'.

Hard to quantify or prove that to be fair , there’s loads of folk doing good thing’s because of their faith 

there’s loads of fuckers too, not denying that or saying you need a faith to do good/ behave properly but religious people do a lot of good too. 

 
for a start all the best piss ups are from religion , so that’s in its favour too . 

[Cheese]

Just now, Not in Crawley said:

I just think its a smidgy bit arrogant, and inacurrate, to dismiss religion and faith as simply binary doing bad or doing good.

But hey, its your view - we're all on a journey, brother.

I've not got a binary view. Hence the word 'more'.

[Cheese]

Just now, fatolive said:

Hard to quantify or prove that to be fair , there’s loads of folk doing good thing’s because of their faith 

there’s loads of fuckers too, not denying that or saying you need a faith to do good/ behave properly but religious people do a lot of good too. 

 
for a start all the best piss ups are from religion , so that’s in its favour too . 

Are all those folk only doing good things because of their faith, or would they do it anyway?

[fatolive]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Are all those folk only doing good things because of their faith, or would they do it anyway?

Some will be doing it because of the way they have been brought up by their faith 

just the same as some will be hating others because of the way they’ve been brought up by their faith . 
 

 

[Traf]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

I'm saying religion does far more 'bad' than it does 'good'.

Religion or ardent followers of religions?

[Zico]

24 minutes ago, Traf said:

Religion or ardent followers of religions?

extermists I'd say

extremists of religion and politics are the worst

it's only the bad ones that tend to make the headlines though, for doing bad things

no one is arsed about hearing good things

I think there's way more good than bad as a result of what people believe in

[Not in Crawley]

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

I've not got a binary view. Hence the word 'more'.

Well that's semantics if ever I saw.

[globaldiver]

2 hours ago, Cheese said:

I'm saying religion does far more 'bad' than it does 'good'.

It’d be interesting to see any data.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just interested to see upon what basis you have made your assertion.

[Spider]

2 hours ago, Cheese said:

I'm saying religion does far more 'bad' than it does 'good'.

Got a link?

[Not in Crawley]

57 minutes ago, globaldiver said:

It’d be interesting to see any data.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just interested to see upon what basis you have made your assertion.

I'm not sure you can measure personal and spiritual fulfillment. Although I did read some article that said religion people generally lived longer and were overall happier with better mental health or something - Y'know bcause they have a structure, a community, and place they can talk, a sense of place without the world, hope, compassion etc etc etc

[Cheese]

40 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I'm not sure you can measure personal and spiritual fulfillment. Although I did read some article that said religion people generally lived longer and were overall happier with better mental health or something - Y'know bcause they have a structure, a community, and place they can talk, a sense of place without the world, hope, compassion etc etc etc

Do you not have those things?

[paulhanley]

23 hours ago, Cheese said:

Who are these "woke" people who are also "Militant atheists" then? Can you give any examples?

You really quite like trying to be the ringmaster don't you. 

There are a number of people of my acquaintance/knowledge including local councillors where I live in Oxfordshire, academics in the same area and one or two folk at work. The thing they have in common is that they are all as bumptious as hell. It's a trait I associate with you too. 

[MickyD]

3 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

You really quite like trying to be the ringmaster don't you. 

There are a number of people of my acquaintance/knowledge including local councillors where I live in Oxfordshire, academics in the same area and one or two folk at work. The thing they have in common is that they are all as bumptious as hell. It's a trait I associate with you too. 

Bumptious adj

Irritatingly self opinionated

 

Yes, Bobby, I can see where you’re coming from although he isn’t alone.

[Cheese]

21 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

You really quite like trying to be the ringmaster don't you. 

There are a number of people of my acquaintance/knowledge including local councillors where I live in Oxfordshire, academics in the same area and one or two folk at work. The thing they have in common is that they are all as bumptious as hell. It's a trait I associate with you too. 

Bless.

[paulhanley]

40 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Bless.

Bless

verb

to ask for God's help and protection for someone or something, or to call or make someone or something holy

You naughty little atheist you.