Traf Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 24 minutes ago, London Wanderer said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68513408 Detaining & beating doctors & preventing them doing their duties. Lovely behaviour from the IDF. Best not suggest a less extreme alternative though, unless you’re a qualified military expert from a country with a clean history 🙄 Yeah, but.... Israel has the right to defend itself... 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted March 12 Site Supporter Share Posted March 12 Will Hamas ever be destroyed? Aren’t they so radically motivated that as one dies another steps up. Their belief that they are here for the short term and in Jannah (paradise) for the long term. It makes it a pretty hopeless situation that someone willing to die by their actions is seen as a hero to those who are left. Just like the Russians and the Allied forces found out in Afghanistan when fighting the Taliban, it’s a fairly shit place to be when you can’t recognise your enemy. Nobody can! Even their own people don’t know who is Hamas if the Hamas folk don’t tell them! At least in historical wars each side picked a colour and wore it to identify themselves to both their enemy and to their own side. Well, you wouldn’t want your own folk pointing a gun at you, would you? In Taliban/Hamas/whoever-else terms, the fighters and the innocent others all wear the same type of clothing. It’s no wonder there are innocent folk killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 12 Site Supporter Share Posted March 12 Well it seems that some Arab nations have already, or were in the process of accepting Israel's right to exist, so perhaps given time, beliefs can change. In the meantime, given such attitudes, it seems all the more pertinent to degrade them as much as possible, rather than allow them to grow all the more. Many people have tried to sort this out over decades, with various levels of success, so it's not likely to be sorted anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 This is a very good article with responses from military experts with a range of responses but basically all saying the same thing, yes you can probably destroy the military aspect of Hamas for a short time but this will be a lengthy and bloody process and ultimately will not lead to a long term peace or the radication of Hamas in perpetutity unless politically the aims of Israel change. It also why the Hawks and the Doves on this forum will never agree because essentially the discussion is at cross purposes, one is looking at this primarily as a military battle, the other a political one, and it is neither one or the other, but both. Retired Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, former Commanding General of U.S. Army Europe “To ‘eliminate’ or destroy Hamas, Israel will have to destroy the root cause of Hamas, its reason for existence. That means Israel will have to accept progress towards a two-state solution and Palestinian statehood for Gaza and the West Bank. Hamas cannot have a leading role in governing Gaza but Israel’s refusal to accept the two-state solution only guarantees continued efforts by Hamas to destroy Israel. Israel taking away that motivation, and getting the illegal settlement problem solved, will make it much easier for Arab nations to support Israel. It will also require the U.S. to put more pressure on Iran to stop supporting Hamas. At the end of the day, IDF will kill a lot of Hamas and destroy much of their current network and infrastructure. But using lethal kinetic force only, without a political non-kinetic component to the strategy, is unlikely to lead to the ‘elimination’ of Hamas.” https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/12/israel-gaza-war-can-hamas-actually-be-eliminated-experts-weigh-in.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, Traf said: Yeah, but.... Israel has the right to defend itself... 😉 Absolutely All necessary measures to defend themselves from Hamas 😉 Who needs doctors anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, London Wanderer said: Absolutely All necessary measures to defend themselves from Hamas 😉 Who needs doctors anyway. All precautions must be taken when you have intelligence that suggests Hamas are hiding in the hospitals and have weapons. Not sure what you expect them to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted March 12 Members Share Posted March 12 3 hours ago, Traf said: Yeah, but.... Israel has the right to defend itself... 😉 It's the BBC. Ignore and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 12 Site Supporter Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: All precautions must be taken when you have intelligence that suggests Hamas are hiding in the hospitals and have weapons. Not sure what you expect them to do. Wasting your time. It may well be the case that some abuse is going on, it's not right, but it happens. Some of our own did similar in Iraq. It's war, and nasty things happen. A simple way to stop this from happening: don't attack your bigger next door neighbour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: All precautions must be taken when you have intelligence that suggests Hamas are hiding in the hospitals and have weapons. Not sure what you expect them to do. Aye You’re right. They’ve got to beat and detain doctors. No way they can let them carry out emergency care whilst Hamas are about. Besides, some British soldiers apparently did similar in Iraq, which makes it ok👍 Abuse happens anyway, let’s just fck it and move on. It’s not the doctors who attacked Israel, but let’s punish them anyway so they learn a lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Egg Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: A simple way to stop this from happening: don't resist when an occupying force takes over. Fixed that for you. Be sure to let the Ukrainians know too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 hours ago, London Wanderer said: Aye You’re right. They’ve got to beat and detain doctors. No way they can let them carry out emergency care whilst Hamas are about. Besides, some British soldiers apparently did similar in Iraq, which makes it ok👍 Abuse happens anyway, let’s just fck it and move on. It’s not the doctors who attacked Israel, but let’s punish them anyway so they learn a lesson. its response, the IDF told the BBC that "about 200 terrorists and suspects of terrorist activity were detained, including some who posed as medical teams". They said that "many weapons were found, as well as closed medicines intended for Israeli hostages". They said they had operated in a "precise and focused manner, creating minimal damage to the hospital's ongoing activity, and without harming the patients or the medical staff". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 6 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: All precautions must be taken when you have intelligence that suggests Hamas are hiding in the hospitals and have weapons. Not sure what you expect them to do. As I said yesterday, our war expert - come teacher doesn’t think before typing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, royal white said: its response, the IDF told the BBC that "about 200 terrorists and suspects of terrorist activity were detained, including some who posed as medical teams". They said that "many weapons were found, as well as closed medicines intended for Israeli hostages". They said they had operated in a "precise and focused manner, creating minimal damage to the hospital's ongoing activity, and without harming the patients or the medical staff". Shock horror - The IDF dispute the claim 😂 Did you really think I expected them to admit it before I shared. Precise and focused my arse. Top tip from your favourite war expert. You can trust the word of the IDF as much as you can the word of Hamas. You can thank me later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Bloody prima donnas these Doctors. They only had to sit there with their hands on their heads for a bit. If it had been the nurses - we'd wouldn't have moaned and we'd have got it done more quickly. We'd have probably stayed late as well. Right set of fannies if you ask me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 9 minutes ago, kent_white said: Bloody prima donnas these Doctors. They only had to sit there with their hands on their heads for a bit. If it had been the nurses - we'd wouldn't have moaned and we'd have got it done more quickly. We'd have probably stayed late as well. Right set of fannies if you ask me! You spelt “making TikTok videos” wrong 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 9 minutes ago, royal white said: You spelt “making TikTok videos” wrong 😉 Well yeah - obviously making Tik Took videos instead of looking after patients. That does without saying! 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted March 13 Members Share Posted March 13 5 hours ago, royal white said: its response, the IDF told the BBC that "about 200 terrorists and suspects of terrorist activity were detained, including some who posed as medical teams". They said that "many weapons were found, as well as closed medicines intended for Israeli hostages". They said they had operated in a "precise and focused manner, creating minimal damage to the hospital's ongoing activity, and without harming the patients or the medical staff". The usual. An 'in depth' investigation by the BBC - once again acting as the propaganda arm of Hamas. They should be held accountable for raising tensions on the streets of London the scumbags. Hamas terrorists hiding in hospitals for human shield reasons and in the uniforms of surgeons and doctors. Weed them out and eliminate. Of course there are those who will swallow anything like a good girl should. London Wanderer a case in point. They can fucking whine all they want. We all know this does not stop until Netanyahu is convinced that Hamas is totally destroyed in the Gaza Strip. Then hopefully Mossad can locate the cowardly architects of the 7th October attack hiding in Qatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 27 minutes ago, bolty58 said: The usual. An 'in depth' investigation by the BBC - once again acting as the propaganda arm of Hamas. They should be held accountable for raising tensions on the streets of London the scumbags. Hamas terrorists hiding in hospitals for human shield reasons and in the uniforms of surgeons and doctors. Weed them out and eliminate. Of course there are those who will swallow anything like a good girl should. London Wanderer a case in point. They can fucking whine all they want. We all know this does not stop until Netanyahu is convinced that Hamas is totally destroyed in the Gaza Strip. Then hopefully Mossad can locate the cowardly architects of the 7th October attack hiding in Qatar. I’ve just watched the news were they covered the investigation. “people were removed from the hospital and forced to strip and kneel with soldiers standing over them” Well no shit, this is the same hospital that they had been receiving fire from. Edited March 13 by royal white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 19 hours ago, Not in Crawley said: Retired Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, former Commanding General of U.S. Army Europe “To ‘eliminate’ or destroy Hamas, Israel will have to destroy the root cause of Hamas, its reason for existence. That means Israel will have to accept progress towards a two-state solution and Palestinian statehood for Gaza and the West Bank. Hamas cannot have a leading role in governing Gaza but Israel’s refusal to accept the two-state solution only guarantees continued efforts by Hamas to destroy Israel. Israel taking away that motivation, and getting the illegal settlement problem solved, will make it much easier for Arab nations to support Israel. It will also require the U.S. to put more pressure on Iran to stop supporting Hamas. At the end of the day, IDF will kill a lot of Hamas and destroy much of their current network and infrastructure. But using lethal kinetic force only, without a political non-kinetic component to the strategy, is unlikely to lead to the ‘elimination’ of Hamas.” https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/12/israel-gaza-war-can-hamas-actually-be-eliminated-experts-weigh-in.html This guys spot on. It’s why people look so naive trying to justify Israel’s approach, when they completely ignore their refusal to negotiate a two state solution. I see the EU are now accusing Israel of purposely using starvation as a weapon of war. The usuals with their ‘what are they meant to do’ will be along shortly…, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeane Koontz Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68550937 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted March 13 Members Share Posted March 13 28 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68550937 The EU. Say no more. Anything to do with von der Lyin' - ignore and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted March 13 Moderators Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, bolty58 said: Bolty. Say no more. Ignore and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted March 13 Members Share Posted March 13 24 minutes ago, Casino said: Feel free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) GB News, Donald Trump & the IDF are gospel. Any other sources can do one. Edited March 13 by London Wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnestTurnip Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 A two state solution has been mentioned for more years than some people who are the most active in this thread have been alive but the best solution is now and has always been a one state solution. It would work fine for the little people who actually crack on with day to day life but when people think they have to live to ideals or have power it all goes tits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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